Smooth Tubes & Filters, Performance Gains?

[Shelby3]

I had to start a new thread, the Vipair one was taking too long to bring up on my dial up connection. People are jumping all over Vipermed about the Vipair for not being able to prove and performance benefit for his product. I see a direct parallel between the Vipair product and smooth tubes/filters. Both products are claiming a performance increase due to better intake air qualities. There seems to be a general acceptance that tubes/filters result in at least a 10hp increase. My simple question is what was the testing used for the tubes/filters and why can't it be applied to the Vipair? If there has been no such testing, why aren't we drilling the vendors selling the tubes/filters?

 

[vipah]

I think the theory on the filters is that they are less restrictive than the stock filters. Totally different from the Vipair so it does not apply. The tubes, as far as I know, are supposed to be less disruptive than the corrugated tubes and allow more air in. Once again totally different from the Vipair.

Here is some K&N info:
http://www.knfilters.com/testmethod.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/powertesting.htm

Seems pretty scientific and thorough.

That said I would much rather see third party testing results as well.

 

[jrkermode]

I also posted this in the Vipair thread.

I believe the 10HP claim for filters and smooth tubes came directly from the factory when those pieces were introduced into the ACR package. A regular GTS was claimed to have 450HP, an ACR was claimed to have 460HP.

 

[ViperJoe]

I also posted this in the Vipair thread.

I believe the 10HP claim for filters and smooth tubes came directly from the factory when those pieces were introduced into the ACR package. A regular GTS was claimed to have 450HP, an ACR was claimed to have 460HP.

If Dodge says it, it's got to be right.....

 

[joe117]

I have red tubes and aftermarket filters.
I believe the artermarket filters probably give a hp gain at high rpm.
I have the filters because they don't cost that much more and I needed filters.
I bought the red tubes because they were on sale. Roe had a deal on the tubes if you were buying filters.

I believe the tubes may give a small hp gain at high rpm.
I have the tubes because they look nice.

I do not believe that anyone could feel, SOTP, any performance gain produced by tubes and filters.

You said,
"People are jumping all over Vipermed about the Vipair for not being able to prove and performance benefit for his product"

Good for you, you get it. He made claims for his product and he can't back up the claims.
If his product claim was,
"this is just like the big racers use, it may work for you",
then I wouldn't have any problem.

When he said it felt like "more like 50hp", I'm going to question it.

For some reason Mr. Shelby, you seem to think that it is somehow wrong to question these claims.
Please tell me why you think Vipair should be given a pass?

Tell me, do you think Vipair will make your car feel like it has 50hp more?

They claimed that it would do just that.
Do you believe that claim or not?

 

[Shelby3]

I don't think Vipair should be given a pass. Neither should tubes and filters. What I'm trying to get at Joe is why you BELIEVE that tubes PROBABLY give a hp increase and are asking for Vipair to PROVE it to you. This is a double standard plain and simple. I have no problem questioning the performance claims of any product but also feel that the same scrutiny should be applied to all products not just a select few.

 

[joe117]

As I said, I bought my tubes from Sean Roe. I don't remember him claiming that they made any hp gain. I have seen tuners post that they give no gain.

A small gain or no gain from tubes isn't the problem. There is no double standard. There have been many threads and posts with people questioning the value of tubes. DC says tubes are worth 10hp.

The value of tubes has been questioned over and over.

The aftermarket filter manufacturers have extensive data showing what their product can do.
There have been numerous posts questioning the value of aftermarket filters.

Filters have been questioned over and over.

The Vipair is a new product. Questioning their claim that Vipair will make your car feel a gain of "more like 50hp", is a reasonable question.
That's the claim in their own words. Words mean things.

Independent testing on a dyno shows no gain from Vipair. How would one feel a boost of "50hp" when the dyno sees none?

Again, there is no double standard. Products that have been around for a long time have been questioned for a long time.

 

[vipah]

Shelby,

Have you looked at the links I provided? Does vipair have that?? NO

Filters have plenty of data proving their advantage. Vipair does not.

 

[Shelby3]

Shelby,

Have you looked at the links I provided? Does vipair have that?? NO

Filters have plenty of data proving their advantage. Vipair does not.

Vipah, Yup I looked at the links and the filter VENDOR is claiming increased performance just as the smooth tube VENDORS are claiming increased performance. Why does everyone accept these claims without independent testing and then turn around and demand that the Vipair be independently tested? That's the double standard I'm referring to.

For the record I BELIEVE that tubes and filters add to performance just as I BELIEVE Vipair does also. How much gain for each, I don't know. I also think the comment about feeling like 50rwhp was a subjective overstatement. It just seems to me that Vipair is being asked to prove their performance gains and being tested by forum members while others products are being given a pass.

 

[vipah]

Look at the scientific method that the vendor (K&N)employed. That is why people believe them versus what the Vipair vendor has provided.

 

[joe117]

What is it about "over and over" that you don't understand?

Filters and tubes have been discussed many many times. There are many people who don't believe that tubes will give any increase. I believe they may give a small increase at high rpm. I base this on what DC said.
If they didn't give any gain I wouldn't be surprised.
I can't feel any gain.

If you believe that the "50hp" claim was just a "subjective overstatement" I have some Rolex watches to sell you.

These guys have had plenty of time to say that they didn't really mean "50hp". They seem to be sticking by the statement. And as I pointed out, words mean things.

Tell me this, if you believe Vipair will give you a gain, do you think it will give you a gain that you could feel?

The independent tester said there was no gain that he could feel. If you don't agree, please tell me what you base this on.

I posted all the claims that these folks have made for their product. Go back to the other thread and see if it look's like they just made a "subjective overstatement".

 

[J DAWG]

I once placed dual 4 inch black sewage pipe on the front of my car and channeled them to each throttle body. Man that felt like at least 28.5 hp at the wheels. Can't baclk this up with any dyno....yet, but maybe an independent unbiased tester would be willing to substantiate my numbers by pressure and dyno testing.


ps - The VIPAIR looks awesome on the car, but I am a POSER.

 

[joe117]

Yeah, awesome.