Something doesn't seem to add up...

[Tom86ZT]

Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Something isn't adding up here.
Dr Roof, first off no disrespect. From reading you put on the most badass event ever and you have one hell of a car.

However, from The time slips you picked up 40mph from the 1/8th to the 1/4 mark. 40mph. Thats amazing. All the other cars picked up from 32-about 35mph in that same stretch. Not even the TT cars are picking up that kind of speed, and I would thin that they have the advantage at that point.
What kind of boost are you running on that car? Where do you see peak boost at? Based on an estimate of your trap speed being almost 153 (seems to be the agreement on what you might have hit on the 9.87 run) and the car weighing about 3600lbs with you in it and fuel. You need to make as much power as Treynor's car made today on the Nitrous, aprrox 1007 at the wheels.
Great job Dr Roof, but what special magic you got in that thing??

 

[KingSnake97]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

GEE TOM WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY!

 

[Gerald]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Did Roof open up his motor for everyone to look at / inspect Lift his hood? I think the cold air helped everyone gain a few extra MPH. Look at some of the MPH's of other cars... Look at roof's dyno and area under the curve, not just a small blower spun up which yeilds WAY less TQ..

G

 

[TOOOFST]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Something isn't adding up here.

Great job Dr Roof, but what special magic you got in that thing??

TOMMY GUN,HowUDooin.
ROOF respectfully stated DLM power:English translationual power adder.

What's the HUSH HUSH cr@p about!

ATTN:Mr.Ben Treynor,I must agree with the replies to all your posts that you are SICK(of telling the truth).You are surely articulate enough to find an honest way to express your love for DLM!I think i'm just jealous!lol.

 

[TomMiriViper]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

I've seen Roof's car at Doug's shop. His GTS doesn't have nitrous on it. I know Doug would definitely tell you if it did. Doug has a first rate reputation. Honestly, I don't know why anybody needs nitrous with a supercharger anymore? DLM power has gone a long way making reliable horsepower. Doug has A LOT of sc only cars pumping out over 800 rwhp

 

[Gerald]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Could you imagine if Roof would cheat at his own event? C'mon, smartin' up. If he'd cheat (which his character or his beleifs I'm sure would keep him from doing so) he'd do it in a closed track, private event with noone there

Roof had his hood open, motor out and pants down. Maybe they hid the nitrous in the muffler bearing area.

Gerad

 

[Torquemonster]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Could you imagine if Roof would cheat at his own event? C'mon, smartin' up. If he'd cheat (which his character or his beleifs I'm sure would keep him from doing so) he'd do it in a closed track, private event with noone there

Roof had his hood open, motor out and pants down. Maybe they hid the nitrous in the muffler bearing area.

Gerad

maybe it was the beans??

what were you Texas boys feeding the Dr?



I understand how hard it is to appreciate how a car can pick up 40mph in the second 1/8 but I recall the last time someones figures were questioned because they did not seem possible - 885rwhp on a stock engine plus boost - they added race gas then made 925rwhp!! People cried how can this be - but it turns out the tuner involved makes 1020rwhp out of his street legal SMALL BLOCK Mustang...

Bottom line - Dr Roof would be the last person in this forum to cheat IMHO - the dyno result simply didn't tell the real story of what that motor made on the track. I'm sure a non slipping belt and cold air helped the car approach 1000rwhp. Maybe there was added intercooling, more timing - whatever - it would have been 100% legal for his class.

 

[Fishtail]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Well said Torguemonster .

 

[Dr Roof]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

TooFast

I hope you are doing well, My car is running incredibly fast these days. If you were at Texas you could have inspected my car just like others did. Nothing to hide here. As a matter of fact I believe that Jason Heffner and Paolo took pretty good looks at my car.

several people at the event was checking the car out. after each run I opened the hood and placed two fans on the intercooler and left to watch others race besides I was the host of the event. Nobody even questioned NOS on my car.

Let me put it this way. I am as honest as they come, If I tell you there is no NOS than there is no NOS. If you read my post over the past year you will find I will never install NOS on my car or any car that I own. I do not have the knowledge about the product to put it on my car. Honestly I am afraid of it. I realize that NOS is the fastest on the drag strip but not my choice for street and strip application.

Please feel free to come to the next event or better yet I will purchase you a plane ticket to Lousiville to check the car out. if you find any evidence of NOS every being installed or on the car I pay your way back. If you do not find any NOS You agree to post your details of your findings and apologize for your false accusations. If you find NOS i Wil give you my car for that matter I will give you both Vipers and my house! you know for all your trouble and catching me using your NOS system.

What about the World Record ET I only ran 135 MPH. The E.t is made in the 60 ft time.

I am trying to get drag racing in the VIper world to the next Level. Lying about mods on my car would not help this cause.

The answer to how this car performed so well is DLM Power.
THis car is a Pro 4 package with all the bells and whistles. I am running 12 PSI which is incredible!!! The Motor is 488 CI and performs amazingly. THis is an achievement that is a work of art.

Just think of how much faster I can go when I learn to drive the car!

My car is always available for inspection from anyone. I would rather hang out with you and have a good time than be concerned someone might find out about my nos.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Roof -

No need to defend yourself against morons who question your integrity. Those who know you, know you. The rest can go #!@!.

If it were me, I wouldn't even dignify them with a response. They'll be going after Mother Teresa before you know it.

JD

 

[TOOOFST]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Doc,I'm sure a few of us appreciate your honesty.
Those #'s are so impressive,it's complimentary that serious racers question!I'm surely amazed at the 1/8 to 1/4 mph,especially knowing Paolo's car well.He matches you at 1/8 in mph and then your off like a prom dress!congrats again.
PS.Max your still annoying!

 

[Tom86ZT]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Roof,
Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning your integrity. I guess I'm questioning the laws of Physics. The car is running 12lbs of boost, so you were only making on the order of 7-8lbs on the dyno? Thats understandable. But what I'm saying is, PHYSICS require that your car be making 1000rwhp, but your car hasn't dyno'd within 150rwhp of that number. I would assume that tuning would have been done at some point and we would have heard of that number if it happened. JD carefull who you call morons, Its easy to type [******] about people without knowing beieve me, I went through it with cars of mine too.
All I am saying is this, ET's at the strip are the driver (so great job Roof, any 9 is impressive), but MPH is the car. And Joseph Dell himself in his sig states that he with 857rwhp and 853rwtq goes 140mph in the 1/4. Do you see where my confusion sets in? I'm not trying to take anything away from anyone here. Roof, do you happen to know what your car weighs with you in it? I'm not trying to start some internat battle ground here, I'm just trying to put all the ducks in a row.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

140mph with a 1.6 60 foot time in 90 degree weather with a poorly conditioned track. You ain't comparin' apples to apples.

Anyone who questions Roof's integrity obviously has no idea *** they are talking about. I'm surprised no one has asked about him staging his REAR tires instead of his FRONT... gheesh...

JD

 

[Supra]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Actually his car's MPH at the 1/4 is right on the money. Using a HP calculator it yields ~980 HP (about 834 RWHP) at the crank with a race weight of 3650 pounds and 151 MPH like he ran. At 153 MPH it would be 1020 HP at the crank and 867 RWHP. If you look at his numbers he's right on the money (850 RWHP).

Something isn't adding up here.
Dr Roof, first off no disrespect. From reading you put on the most badass event ever and you have one hell of a car.

However, from The time slips you picked up 40mph from the 1/8th to the 1/4 mark. 40mph. Thats amazing. All the other cars picked up from 32-about 35mph in that same stretch. Not even the TT cars are picking up that kind of speed, and I would thin that they have the advantage at that point.
What kind of boost are you running on that car? Where do you see peak boost at? Based on an estimate of your trap speed being almost 153 (seems to be the agreement on what you might have hit on the 9.87 run) and the car weighing about 3600lbs with you in it and fuel. You need to make as much power as Treynor's car made today on the Nitrous, aprrox 1007 at the wheels.
Great job Dr Roof, but what special magic you got in that thing??

 

[Dr Roof]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

I have never weighed the car but it is the stock weight. I still have a working AC still carry a spare Tire and still the stock Flywheel. No weight has been removed from the car.

The event had special Texas Air which made everyone run the best. BTR Tom welch and Lee Saunders ran there best times ever with even higher MPH.

THe comparison between my car and Paolo car is probably not a fair comparison. Not to start a flame but my car yields more torque and the area under the curve with Hp and Torque stronger on my car. His car has the greater peak Number. I don't have all the answers but will always give a honest answer. (not to take anything away from Paolo or Heffner)

If I am not mistaken Blower cars will make More HP when moving especially in good air conditions.

My car is always available for inspection and PICTURES! (LOL)

 

[NATE]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

EXCEPTIONAL AIR CONDITIONS & LIMITED BELT SLIPPAGE, but Nitrous on Roof's car

Besides that, where in the world would he put the bottle????????????

 

[treynor]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

It's important to remember that everyone quotes SAE-corrected dyno figures, but on the dragstrip the only thing which matters is ACTUAL HP. Cold, dry air will make a lot more power, especially on a FI intercooled car.

 

[Supra]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Very true. And cars many times have higher actual RWHP number in TX than corrected RWHP due to "better" than sea level conditions.

It's important to remember that everyone quotes SAE-corrected dyno figures, but on the dragstrip the only thing which matters is ACTUAL HP. Cold, dry air will make a lot more power, especially on a FI intercooled car.

 

[utahviper]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

I do not doubt what roof says. Do you want to explain to me why I am running 145MPH? I only put 715rwhp but ran 145MPH. I also ran a faster MPH than anyone in the street tire shootout(143MPH). I am almost certain that my 145MPH was higher than paolo's(142-143mph). How would you explain someone with 715RWHP making more mph than someone with 860+rwhp? Here is the timeslip

I do think that I had a similiar problem as roof, not putting out all the power at the dyno shootout.

 

[RedGTS]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

C'mon Utah everyone knows you've got nitrous too! (j/k ) Seriously, I would think your torque curve (or torque plain in your case) has a lot to do with the difference.

 

[utahviper]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

I think the flat torque curve has alot to do with my times but not with my mph. I gained over 11 mph from my best. I am definitely making more power.

 

[NATE]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

I think the flat torque curve has alot to do with my times but not with my mph. I gained over 11 mph from my best. I am definitely making more power.

Something doesn't add up???????

You must have nitrous and twin turbos hooked up to your Roe Blower to get that kind of MPH. John Hennessey must have done that stealth style TT system that Heffner does.

 

[2BADD 4U]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Dr Roof

"Congrats" on a fine run and an awesome Snake!!! Big Thumbs Up!!!

Dave

 

[Supra]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Your numbers are also right on the money. If we assume a 3650 pound race weight for the car with driver 145.02 MPH translates to 869 HP at the crank. With a 15% loss that's 738 RWHP. Very close to your stated RWHP on your sig.

Congrats on that pass, that's flying!

I do not doubt what roof says. Do you want to explain to me why I am running 145MPH? I only put 715rwhp but ran 145MPH. I also ran a faster MPH than anyone in the street tire shootout(143MPH). I am almost certain that my 145MPH was higher than paolo's(142-143mph). How would you explain someone with 715RWHP making more mph than someone with 860+rwhp? Here is the timeslip

I do think that I had a similiar problem as roof, not putting out all the power at the dyno shootout.

 

[NATE]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Your numbers are also right on the money. If we assume a 3650 pound race weight for the car with driver 145.02 MPH translates to 869 HP at the crank. With a 15% loss that's 738 RWHP. Very close to your stated RWHP on your sig.

Congrats on that pass, that's flying!

I do not doubt what roof says. Do you want to explain to me why I am running 145MPH? I only put 715rwhp but ran 145MPH. I also ran a faster MPH than anyone in the street tire shootout(143MPH). I am almost certain that my 145MPH was higher than paolo's(142-143mph). How would you explain someone with 715RWHP making more mph than someone with 860+rwhp? Here is the timeslip

I do think that I had a similiar problem as roof, not putting out all the power at the dyno shootout.

The calculator you are using calculates RWHP like the one here ONLINE DYNO

 

[Tom86ZT]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

Just a side note, Supra, I was using the hp calculator on at www.douglevinmotorsports.com which states it gives wheel horsepower. I would also assume these are wheel numbers since it would be impossible to tell what the drivetrain loss would be especially from car to car. It doesn't ask if you are stick or auto or what and we know that auto's tend to lose more power through the drivetrain.
Utah, You have an amazing car too. Those Roe blowers are fantastic. But what were you waiting for on that run with a 1.5 reaction time (not that that means anything in the run). Were ya chugging down the last of your frozen mocha or what? lol.

 

[Supra]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

I ran across this formula HP=((TS/234)^3)*W where TS = trapspeed and W = weight including driver about 8 years ago (when I used to drag race my 240SX). The formula calculated HP at the crank and stated as such. It has since being incorrectly labeled as a RWHP calculator by many.

Based on Utah's and Dr. Roof's car being right on the money with the formula I have provided you can see it's calculating correctly to the crank, not to the wheels.

BTW when my Supra went 143.2 MPH with a weight of 3780 pounds this formula calculated HP at 866 HP. My car's best dyno EVER without NOS was a corrected 786 RWHP. Uncorrected in AZ it was closer to 740 RWHP. Clearly the 866 was not at the wheels as the car was not capable of that without NOS.

Also a stock Viper GTS can easily trap 120 MPH. If that formula calculated RWHP a Viper GTS would need 492 RWHP to do that. We all know 100% GTS's don't do 492 RWHP but that 492 crank HP calculates to about 418 RWHP which is right on the $$$$ with what a GTS dynoes.......

Your numbers are also right on the money. If we assume a 3650 pound race weight for the car with driver 145.02 MPH translates to 869 HP at the crank. With a 15% loss that's 738 RWHP. Very close to your stated RWHP on your sig.

Congrats on that pass, that's flying!

I do not doubt what roof says. Do you want to explain to me why I am running 145MPH? I only put 715rwhp but ran 145MPH. I also ran a faster MPH than anyone in the street tire shootout(143MPH). I am almost certain that my 145MPH was higher than paolo's(142-143mph). How would you explain someone with 715RWHP making more mph than someone with 860+rwhp? Here is the timeslip

I do think that I had a similiar problem as roof, not putting out all the power at the dyno shootout.

The calculator you are using calculates RWHP like the one here ONLINE DYNO

 

[Supra]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

The calculators assumes a certain loss though the drivetrain. Look at a Viper GTS's number and you will see it doesn't calculate RWHP or it would be HIGHLY inacurrate.

Just a side note, Supra, I was using the hp calculator on at www.douglevinmotorsports.com which states it gives wheel horsepower. I would also assume these are wheel numbers since it would be impossible to tell what the drivetrain loss would be especially from car to car. It doesn't ask if you are stick or auto or what and we know that auto's tend to lose more power through the drivetrain.
Utah, You have an amazing car too. Those Roe blowers are fantastic. But what were you waiting for on that run with a 1.5 reaction time (not that that means anything in the run). Were ya chugging down the last of your frozen mocha or what? lol.

 

[utahviper]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

We were not in competition, it was just time trials. Just trying to get it to a specific launch rpm.

Mr supra
I ran 10.43 @134MPH in vegas. 685RWHP according to DLM website. I ran multiple times and they were all close to the same result. I don't think going to sea level is going to give me 11 MPH trap speed. Also, the calculator you are using is for RWHP not crank. ONe other thing of note, lets just say that it is fly wheel hp, there is not a 15% loss of power through the driveline as power goes up. A stock viper has around 400-410 rwhp based on a 450 fly hp motor. It doesn't take any more power to turn that drivetrain with 450 or 900 hp. I would agree that friction would cause it to take a little more power to turn but a stock hp motor takes about 40hp to turn the driveline so are you saying it takes 129HP to turn it if you have 862HP?

So to sum it up. I ran 134 in vegas which equates to about acutal 680rwhp (LVMS elevation 2100 ft) which sounds correct to me from 715RWHP @sea level. Also, there is no way there is a 15% driveline loss as power goes up so I am saying is that DLM's website is correct.

I appreciate the praise on my time but unfortunately I disagree with you.

 

[Supra]

Re: Something doesn\'t seem to add up...

The formula can't calculate RWHP unless 100% stock Viper GTS's make roughly 490 RWHP. That does happen to be close to what they do make at the crank.

Also the formula they have been using is the same I listed above which years ago was stated as crank HP, not wheel HP.

Also the contant HP loss through a drivetrain is a fallacy.

When you dyno a stock Viper GTS in say 4th gear it may take (and this is a guess) 7 seconds to get from 2,000 RPM's to 6,000 RPM's. In a car such as yours it will take far shorter, say 4 seconds to go from 2K RPM's to 6K RPM's. Accelerate a mass of equal mass (the drivetrain mass has not changed) from 2K to 6K RPM's in nearly half the time requires more HP.

Also if it was true that it takes 40 HP to turn the drivetrain that would mean that if you put a 39 HP motor in a Viper it couldn't turn the wheels and make the car move. Clearly this is no so.

What did you change on your Viper between LV and TX to pick up 11 MPH?

By the way the best my Supra in the sig could run at Vegas (2100 feet elevation) was 139 MPH, the best in PHX at 1300 feet above sea level was 143 MPH (and I had a pass that was 2 MPH faster in the 1/8th on the same night and I missed 4th, that would have been close to 145 MPH). I'm sure in TX with better than sea level conditions my Supra would have gone faster yet.

We were not in competition, it was just time trials. Just trying to get it to a specific launch rpm.

Mr supra
I ran 10.43 @134MPH in vegas. 685RWHP according to DLM website. I ran multiple times and they were all close to the same result. I don't think going to sea level is going to give me 11 MPH trap speed. Also, the calculator you are using is for RWHP not crank. ONe other thing of note, lets just say that it is fly wheel hp, there is not a 15% loss of power through the driveline as power goes up. A stock viper has around 400-410 rwhp based on a 450 fly hp motor. It doesn't take any more power to turn that drivetrain with 450 or 900 hp. I would agree that friction would cause it to take a little more power to turn but a stock hp motor takes about 40hp to turn the driveline so are you saying it takes 129HP to turn it if you have 862HP?

So to sum it up. I ran 134 in vegas which equates to about acutal 680rwhp (LVMS elevation 2100 ft) which sounds correct to me from 715RWHP @sea level. Also, there is no way there is a 15% driveline loss as power goes up so I am saying is that DLM's website is correct.

I appreciate the praise on my time but unfortunately I disagree with you.