steering rack fix

Jerry Scott[CO]

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If you are not happy with the steering rack recall fix that Dodge is offering, here's one that uses a truss plate that ties the frame to the rack mount. It is installed with rivet nuts and bolts on the frame and bolts and nuts on the rack mount. No welding or alignment changes are necessary. All you will need is the rivet nut clenching tool and a drill. Kip Partridge makes the part of .090 stainless steel. His phone is: 303-697-5821. I will make a Word file write-up in the next few days for the installation instructions.

He will also soon have an alternate fix for the differential mounts that will not require removing the gas tank.

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Viper Wizard

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IF YOU WANT TO BE SAFE DO THE RECALL!!
Do you think the Engineers at DC know what they are doing? I do!
If something brakes because you did not do the Recall you are on your own!
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You want to add that bracket after the Recall, go ahead? Welding is better then bolting!
 

SoCal Rebell

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I'm picking up my Viper today from the dealer after the 999 recall was done. I'm tracking the car this Fri., Sat. & Sun. with Hoosiers. I'll advise on Mon. how she handled.
 

Janni

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Jerry,
Just acouple of clarifications..

The steering rack mount kit that needs to be applied to all cars (preventative) DOES NOT require alignment work - it is only to reinforce the rack. It DOES require welding. Based on what the preventative fix looks like, I am not sure that the reinforcement you are showing is going to provide the same level of support and does not appear to be engineered to do the same thing. It may be a great ADDITION to the recall - I know we have discussed adding MORE support than just the Dodge kit.

If cracks are found to the rack mounts, the repair is more involved and would require an alignment. I do not believe your kit would be sufficient if cracks were found.

With regard to the diff mount recall portion - the preventative fix (if no cracks are found) DOES NOT REQUIRE WELDING and therefore DOES NOT require the gas tank removal. Only if cracks are found, do you have to remove the tank. I would hope that if cracks were found, EVERYONE would reweld and reinforce - and that is gonna require gas tank removal. But to repeat - the preventative reinforcement DOES NOT require the removal of the gas tank.
 
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Jerry Scott[CO]

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Janni
My automotive engineering background tells me that this fix will be more than adequate to stop any further failures of the rack mount at the welds. Even if the welds had started to crack, but not yet failed, this fix would resolve the problem. If the welds have totally failed, then they would need to be rewelded in addition to adding the plate.
Jerry Scott, BSME Purdue
 

dancojax

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So, Janni, I guess you done been told.
No need to heed the guys in Detroit, just listen to the Boilermakers in Colorado. Me, I'm going with you and the Recall.
Don Cochran (FL)
MSCE (structural) Michigan State University
 
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Jerry Scott[CO]

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I only offered this as an alternative to taking your chances with having the dealer do it. It wasn't intended to be represented as better than the dealer fix. I'm sure that the engineers have tested their patch kit to the hilt. I just felt better doing it myself.
 

genXgts

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With all due respect to Chuck,

If it's the same engineers that let the Viper fly out the door to the customer with insufficient bracing to meet the needs that the car can deliver, knowing that the car will be tracked/ driven ******* the street, then no, I don't think the DC engineers know what they are doing!
nosmiley.gif


I realize there are alot more issues at hand, flame away, but some of the safety items that slip by this company is inexcusable, bottom line.
 

joe117

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Is that rivet nut clenching tool the same as the one I have? Mine is sort of like a pop rivet tool. I think the rivet nuts it uses are made of aluminum. I hope the one you have is a real aircraft type thing with quality rivet nuts. My clenching tool and the rivet nuts for it are nowhere near good enough for a thing like this.
 
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Jerry Scott[CO]

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Joe
I don't know what tool you have, but here is a picture of the five nut-serts installed in the frame rail. They are not aluminum. These are cad. plated steel, and will take the full tightening torque of a 5/16-18 grade 8 bolt.

Three or four probably would have been adequate, but I decided to use five.

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Chuck 98 RT/10

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by genXgts:
With all due respect to Chuck,

If it's the same engineers that let the Viper fly out the door to the customer with insufficient bracing to meet the needs that the car can deliver, knowing that the car will be tracked/ driven ******* the street, then no, I don't think the DC engineers know what they are doing!
nosmiley.gif


I realize there are alot more issues at hand, flame away, but some of the safety items that slip by this company is inexcusable, bottom line.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know I'm not the Chuck you're referring to, but I think the steering brace issue, while admittedly dangerous, was not common and therefore difficult to ascertain. In fact, I think it only happened once or twice, but I’m not sure.
 

Marv S

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I don't think Jerry has ever under engineered anything. In fact, his solutions seem mil-spec. For the past 5 years he has brought over the top solutions to many areas. Oil pan baffle system, header/exhaust install tips including ** quality fasteners, side sill removal technique that allow repeated R&R of the side sills without fastener problems, shifter mod tips, seat belt mods and tips, and Viper Differential Drain Plug Install are just some of the technical items he has brought to the Viper community. Every tip he has is well documented and illustrated. They almost always improve on the original function, convenience, and durability. This is a guy that is always looking for improvement and shares his knowledge and insight.

There are some that have expressed interest in an alternative to the factory fix on recall 998. Jerry simply offered his approach for one. Is it for you? Maybe and maybe not --- for several reasons.
 

Janni

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OK, I really did not mean for this to turn into a ******* contest. I respect Jerry and his ideas - we've used his instructions for the diff drain plug install and everything else I have seen him post is spot on. And no, I am not an engineer, but I am married to a pretty smart one and he's taken the time to crawl under a few cars with me and explain a few things. (This is what we were doing last night..) This is why I think there is more that needs to be done than Jerry's proposed alternative - and bear with me - I am not too technical....

There are 2 parts to the steering rack reinforcement fix. The first part is relatively straightforward in that it welds a tubular piece between the 2 frame rails snuggled up to the steering rack mounts. I believe that this is the piece that Jerry's support could replace / augment.

And, if the only thing at work here that was stressing and breaking the welds was the load on the mounts from the steering rack itself, (meaning that the steering rack was trying to move off the frame) then that would be all there was too it.

However, three is a second part of the recall that involves grinding off the small gussets under the joint between the frame rail and the floremost crossmember and adding large, heavy triangular plates that are riveted (with structural steel rivits) to the frame rails and cross member..

Under the car, aft of the cross member there are 2 diagonal pieces that attach and strengthen the crossmember to the frame. This is the "K" that is formed by these pieces. That is very strong. There is no such bracing presently in FRONT of the crossmember.

Please note that the forward mount for the lower control arm is located FORWARD of the cross member. And that the front frame horns continue forward by themselves with no further cross pieces.

We believe, that in addition to the steering rack forces, the CORNERING forces exerted on the front frame rails by the forward lower control arm mounts are stressing the front frame horns and repeated stressing can have the effect of cracking the steering rack mounts- even though they may not be what's "moving". Using the big honking triangular plates (told you I was not technical) rivited to the front frame rail AND the cross member strengthens the heck out of this area - likely matching the behind the crossmember support. We believe this is a fatigue failure due to cornering forces of the increasd grip of the Hoosiers, and that is one reason why it takes a while to show up. REMEMBER, I smacked the wall at Watkins Glen hard enough to BREAK my steering rack and my mounts are PERFECT.

IF steering rack twist / load was the only thing working to crack these, then part one of the fix, in our opinion, would be all that was necessary. The addition of the plates forward of the cross member is a clue that there is more going on than just necessarily this being CAUSED by the steering rack. We believe the steering rack welds cracking are an EFFECT of the flex of the front frame horn under cornering load.

Take this for what it is worth, but look at your car and check our where the forward lower control arm mounts to the frame rail. Imagine the forces that sticky tires can generate on that piece of frame that is currently not suported further forward of that mount.

I expect that we'll be ordering Jerry's fix to augment the recall fix, but we won't be eliminating the additional reinforcement.

Just my $.02 (well, maybe a little more) and certainly not intended to slam anyone.
 

GTS Dean

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Why don't we step back and take a look at the bigger picture, OK?

The tires' steering kickback load is transmitted directly thru the tie rods to the steering rack. The forces are then fed thru the rubber mounting bushings and into the rack mounting bracket which is made of pretty light sheet metal. This bracket is mounted above the frame rails by several inches and there is a lot of moment induced on the tabs where it welds to the lower frame rails. The entire bracket flexes under heavy loading. The root of the bend concentrates a bunch of this stress and leads to cracks above the yellow arrows. It is quite possible that the front A-arm pivots are also flexing the frame horn and exacerbating the problem.

The newer brackets on the '00-'02 cars have a generous bend radius that spreads the load out better, plus have 3 extra gusset plates welded to the steering rack support. I would imagine that the recall kit brings the older cars up to the strength of the newer ones using the same pieces.

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Henry Cone

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Jerry and GTS Dean, it does appear that Dodge is doing more than just reinforcing the steering rack mount. I've read the recall in detail and seen the parts for it. The recall installs 2 fairly large triangular steel plates to brace the frame horns in front of the front frame crossmember to the crossmember. The only reason that I can see for doing this is because of deflection of the front frame horns. Since the largest loads on the horns are from the lower A arms and not the steering rack (it applies very little load to the horns) there does seem to be more to thre recall than first meets the eye. The steel plates don't attach anywhere to the steering rack mount and are in fact on the bottom of the frame while the welded rack reinforement piece is on the top side of the frame. Thus as Janni has indicated there seems to be more to this than just the steering rack mount reinforcement.

So while I do believe that the steering rack mount design is less than ideal and should be reinforced I don't want anyone to get the impression that they shouldn't do the recall because they cam do something else better themselves. I like the support that Jerry has designed and believe that it would do a great job reinforcing the rack mount. However there is more to the recall than just this..

Henry Cone
BSME NCSU
 

ACR Jim

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Jerry or Kip,

Looking at the pictures of a vehicle that has already had the 999/998 recall on the steering rack performed, has me wondering if your brace will work in conjuction with the factory recall that adds the brace to the steering rack support....do you know that it is compatible?

I hope that doing both is possible as your solution adds some additional stiffness as well as appearing to be well executed.

Jim
 

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