T&D's install made easy

Jack B

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T&D\'s install made easy

The first time I installed the T&D's they went in, however, I had a little problem getting them right. I just installed my second set and gave this install some thought. It really is easy if you understand some basic concepts.

The geometry must be set first. This is the alignment of the roller on the center of the valve. They give you two different spacer sets. Start without any spacers and install one rocker. Before installing the rocker take a black magic marker and paint the top of the valve stem. Back out the adjuster all the way till it won't go any further. Find TDC on that cylinder and install an adjustable push rod ($12 @ Summit), adjust the push rod till you get zero lash between the roller and valve. Turn the engine over with an external switch attached to the starter. Take off the rocker and check the pattern that the roller made on the valve tip. It should be close to the center of the valve.

If the pattern is high (towards top of engine), install the thinner spacer and see if the pattern is centered (moved down), if not, proceed to the thicker spacer. With the stock heads I had to use the smaller spacer. After I milled the heads I ended up with no spacer.

The next step is to size the new push rods. Even if the existing push rods are the correct length, replace them, they are a three piece design. The new push rods should be a one piece 5/16" chrome moly design. You will need a large micrometer/calliper to measure the the length of the adjustable push rod. You should already have obtained a zero lash at TDC (by lengthening the adjustable push rod) with the rocker adjuster all the way up. The correct push length is simply the measured length minus .050. If your adjustable push rod was .770, the actual rod would be .765. The reason is that the rocker adjuster moves .050 for one full turn and the ideal position for the adjuster is one full turn down from full up.

The next step is to install all the rockers. Start with the rocker adjuster full up, fasten the stand down. Find TDC and crank the adjuster down 1-1/2 turns. In other words, you are setting them with a 1/2 turn past zero lash. If they make any noise at all take them down a max of another half turn. You should be good to go if your measurements were correct. Spend some extra time on the measuring procedure and double check the measurement. If it is correct everything else comes out correct.

What you have to be careful of is the adjusters will have lubication problems as you approach three turns down. You may also want to verify geometry on both sides of the engine. The only reason for a loud lifter would be a dimensional non-uniformity within the valve train or head.
 

TorQ Junkie

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Re: T&D\'s install made easy

Are stock push rods prone to failing if only bolt-ons and T&D's are added? I have headers and exhaust. My installer may have reused the originals. Good news is, warrantee is still good until 2007. Bad news is I might get stranded somewhere.

If I occasionally go to the strip (2-4 times a year) and to the road courses (1-2 a year), will stock rods be a liability?

Nice write-up by the way! Almost wish I did it myself.
 

Jerome Sparich

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Re: T&D\'s install made easy

The first time I installed the T&D's they went in, however, I had a little problem getting them right. I just installed my second set and gave this install some thought. It really is easy if you understand some basic concepts.

The geometry must be set first. This is the alignment of the roller on the center of the valve. They give you two different spacer sets. Start without any spacers and install one rocker. Before installing the rocker take a black magic marker and paint the top of the valve stem. Back out the adjuster all the way till it won't go any further. Find TDC on that cylinder and install an adjustable push rod ($12 @ Summit), adjust the push rod till you get zero lash between the roller and valve. Turn the engine over with an external switch attached to the starter. Take off the rocker and check the pattern that the roller made on the valve tip. It should be close to the center of the valve.

If the pattern is high (towards top of engine), install the thinner spacer and see if the pattern is centered (moved down), if not, proceed to the thicker spacer. With the stock heads I had to use the smaller spacer. After I milled the heads I ended up with no spacer.

The next step is to size the new push rods. Even if the existing push rods are the correct length, replace them, they are a three piece design. The new push rods should be a one piece 5/16" chrome moly design. You will need a large micrometer/calliper to measure the the length of the adjustable push rod. You should already have obtained a zero lash at TDC (by lengthening the adjustable push rod) with the rocker adjuster all the way up. The correct push length is simply the measured length minus .050. If your adjustable push rod was .770, the actual rod would be .765. The reason is that the rocker adjuster moves .050 for one full turn and the ideal position for the adjuster is one full turn down from full up.

The next step is to install all the rockers. Start with the rocker adjuster full up, fasten the stand down. Find TDC and crank the adjuster down 1-1/2 turns. In other words, you are setting them with a 1/2 turn past zero lash. If they make any noise at all take them down a max of another half turn. You should be good to go if your measurements were correct. Spend some extra time on the measuring procedure and double check the measurement. If it is correct everything else comes out correct.

What you have to be careful of is the adjusters will have lubication problems as you approach three turns down. You may also want to verify geometry on both sides of the engine. The only reason for a loud lifter would be a dimensional non-uniformity within the valve train or head.


Just an FYI

I think you have something wrong here Jack.
 
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Jack B

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Re: T&D\'s install made easy

Jerome:

give me a PM, if I made an error in any way I would like to know where and learn some more. As far as the stock push rods there are too many of them that have worked without failure to say they are bad, period. My point was, while you have the car apart why not replace them with a better product, in addition, a large percentage of the cars are not going to get the T&D's adjusted correctly with the stock push rods.

For a reference, the OEM push rods (mine had a single black stripe) measures .7641. There was a post a while back from a Canadian tuner that has done over 20 of these, he indicated that in most cases to get the T&D adjusters in the right range (no more than two turns down from full up) you need a 7.700 length push rod. In my first attempt (last year)I had the adjusters down further than two turns and did not like running them that way. If I had used the 7.700's I would have been in range. I am now using the 7.550's because my heads were milled and that is where the T&D's are in range.

By the way, the small shim is a .040 and the larger shim measures .081. If the the geometry cannot be taken to the exact center with the two supplied shims, it would be easy to install an intermediate shim of your own choosing. The one problem that would not be immediately correctable is an initial low centering of the pattern, in that case the head stand bosses would have to be milled.

One more clarification - my comment about the ideal position is "one full turn down from full up", that is the ideal STARTING position. You are now in the middle of the range and can go up and down one full turn for the final adjustment. In my recent install I ended up about 1-1/2 down from full up. That was about 1/2 to 3/4 turn down from zero lash. I am still within the T&D recommendation of no further down than two turns and I have no noise or pump down.

My only reason for posting this was the large number of question going on about this topic and the lack of hands-on information available or coming back to the forum. If you look at the numbers, the key to success is sizing the push rod correctly. At two turns of adjustment (T&D recommendation) that is .100 of range - you better have the push rods sized correctly or you are going to have some questions on your mind as you hit the rev limiter.
 
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Jack B

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Re: T&D\'s install made easy

Jeremy pointed out that I made a typo:

I stated:

"If your adjustable push rod was .770, the actual rod would be .765. The reason is that the rocker adjuster moves .050 for one full turn and the ideal position for the adjuster is one full turn down from full up."


The correct numbers should be 7.700 and 7.650, in other words 7.700 minus .050 should be 7.650.
 

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