To ABS, or to not ABS.... That is the Question.

[StreetGrime]

Hey All,
So I have done all the research, know the options... but have one question left.

I want to preface this by saying I have owned a few stick shift cars through the years. But none with as much power as the Viper.

So my dilemma is....

Do I go for a Gen 2, 1996 to 2000 year car...

OR... Do I hold out for the newer 2001 to 2002 cars with ABS.

I should note, I want the Blue with White Stripe car... which throws a slight wrench in there for cost.

So how big of a deal is ABS on these cars? Is it a slip and slide fest? Or is it just idiot drivers giving this a bad name?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[MoparMap]

Tires are the name of the game. The Viper has a tremendous amount of mechanical grip built into the system, but only when everything is up to *****. What do you plan to do with the car? About the only time I've ever had ABS do anything for me is when I'm pushing it on the track. On the street you should almost never be braking to the point of needing it unless it's a panic situation, and most of the time if you are driving heads up you should see that coming and the braking power is more than enough compared to cars around you to slow down. Worn out tires change that pretty significantly though, although ABS still won't make them work that much better, it will just help keep from flat spotting them.

 

[daveg]

Go for the Color you want, if its a car that Doesn't have ABS, I personally wouldn't care because I don't drive my car in inclimate weather and that's where you "may" need it. As said, Tires are the most important thing on these cars.

 

[luc]

Without abs, the front right tire has a tendency to lock under emergency braking
Otherwise it’s a non issue

 

[GTS Dean]

Because the driver's butt and the battery are about 2' from each other and it ***** up the cross-weight on the RF.

 

[99RT10GTS]

I am selling a 2001 RT/10(ABS) with the stock rims for $45K. 15K mile car, clean title, no accidents.

 

[redramv10]

Yes ABS is a big deal. It is worth getting one with ABS.

 

[efnfast]

Yes ABS is a big deal. It is worth getting one with ABS.

It's only a big deal if you have a v-a-g-i-n-a

Otherwise there are far more important things, like a 708 cam.

 

[luc]

Yes ABS is a big deal. It is worth getting one with ABS.

Only for some people. For me it’s a non issue
We all have a personal abs system, it’s called skills and brake modulation
Some people even need traction control… I don’t

 

[Bonkers]

Its a confidence issue. If money isnt the concern the
ABS cars are just slightly better all around anyway, there
is no downside to going that route. The only time youre
going to need the ABS... and you WILL need it eventually...
is on a track (if youre racing for numbers) and like others
said, in an emergency. If you have the confidence to
threshold brake during those time, then all the differences
go away.

 

[efnfast]

Its a confidence issue. If money isnt the concern the
ABS cars are just slightly better all around anyway, there
is no downside to going that route. The only time youre
going to need the ABS... and you WILL need it eventually...
is on a track (if youre racing for numbers) and like others
said, in an emergency. If you have the confidence to
threshold brake during those time, then all the differences
go away.

The downside is you don't get a 708 cam. Granted a custom ground cam will be better than a 708, but most people arn't going to want to dick around with a cam swap.

 

[luc]

Its a confidence issue. If money isnt the concern the
ABS cars are just slightly better all around anyway, there
is no downside to going that route. The only time youre
going to need the ABS... and you WILL need it eventually...
is on a track (if youre racing for numbers) and like others
said, in an emergency. If you have the confidence to
threshold brake during those time, then all the differences
go away.

Historically the number 1 parameter for choosing a gen 2 has been color
Except for red, all other colors were a 1 or at most 2 years deal
Want a blue/white stripes ? 96 and 97
Want a black/silver stripes? 00 or 01
Etc…..

 

[white out]

Find the car you like best. Then throw the stickiest tire you can on it.

They all need brakes and quite a few options depending on your price point.

 

[StreetGrime]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks so much for the responses! I see some questions, so I am going to try and answer all of them in this one post here.

What do you plan to do with the car?
Just drive it around normally... Cars and Coffee rides with my son.... maybe punch the throttle now and then for fun. But I am not interested in racing or Track stuff. I have had a Ferrari, a few Ducati's, a Corvette... and never had the urge to go to a track.

Kind of a funny side note... I had my Ferrari 308 for years... no problem at all. Its long gone and sold now... but I just realized the other day that it never had ABS. And I was fine... so maybe its not a big thing.

Just a note, I live in Orange County, Ca .... so weather is good most of the time. And this would not be a daily driver at all, so it will never see rain.


The downside is you don't get a 708 cam. Granted a custom ground cam will be better than a 708, but most people arn't going to want to dick around with a cam swap.

Other than cosmetic changes, like seats or dash changes.... the MOST I would do is consider a new exhaust. But I am not interested in doing any engine mods.

Historically the number 1 parameter for choosing a gen 2 has been color
Except for red, all other colors were a 1 or at most 2 years deal
Want a blue/white stripes ? 96 and 97
Want a black/silver stripes? 00 or 01
Etc…..

Yeah you sorta called it there..... I want blue and white.... or Black with Silver stripes... But am also good with the Silver with Blue Stripes. I dont know how I feel about putting Vinyl stripes on a car... for some reason that feels like cheating.. but I do like the idea of trying different color stripes out. So not sure there. I am not a fan of Yellow, however there is a Yellow with black stripes 2001 ACR near me that is something I am considering.

As for Price point... I can go as high as $90k for the right car. Which I would say is Blue with stripes, Very good condition, maybe 40k (ish) miles. As I said above there is a 2001 yellow with black striped ACR that I am eyeballing for $90k. If it was blue or black with stripes it would be a done deal... I cant quite convince myself on the yellow. Also as a side note on this one, I personally dont care about the ACR aspect of this car.. but its a 2001 with ABS.. thats what I cared about. But I will say from a heritage and WoW factor I think the ACR aspect is neat. But once again I would not race it, or anything like that regardless of the "ACR-ness".

Thanks all for the responses!

 

[efnfast]

Other than cosmetic changes, like seats or dash changes.... the MOST I would do is consider a new exhaust. But I am not interested in doing any engine mods.

if you arn't going to do any engine work buy a year with a 708 cam and forged internals ... that will make you feel like a real man and drop p-a-n-t-i-e-s

 

[StreetGrime]

if you arn't going to do any engine work buy a year with a 708 cam and forged internals ... that will make you feel like a real man and drop p-a-n-t-i-e-s

I spose I should look it up... but what exactly will a 708 cam and forged internals do for me?

If I had this car, and a NON-708 cam next to each other, how would I (or anyone else) know the difference? Aside from all the ladies with dropped pantees standing next to the 708..... would it sound different? Drive different? What is the difference you think I would care about?

Thanks!

 

[luc]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks so much for the responses! I see some questions, so I am going to try and answer all of them in this one post here.

What do you plan to do with the car?
Just drive it around normally... Cars and Coffee rides with my son.... maybe punch the throttle now and then for fun. But I am not interested in racing or Track stuff. I have had a Ferrari, a few Ducati's, a Corvette... and never had the urge to go to a track.

Kind of a funny side note... I had my Ferrari 308 for years... no problem at all. Its long gone and sold now... but I just realized the other day that it never had ABS. And I was fine... so maybe its not a big thing.

Just a note, I live in Orange County, Ca .... so weather is good most of the time. And this would not be a daily driver at all, so it will never see rain.


The downside is you don't get a 708 cam. Granted a custom ground cam will be better than a 708, but most people arn't going to want to dick around with a cam swap.

Other than cosmetic changes, like seats or dash changes.... the MOST I would do is consider a new exhaust. But I am not interested in doing any engine mods.

Historically the number 1 parameter for choosing a gen 2 has been color
Except for red, all other colors were a 1 or at most 2 years deal
Want a blue/white stripes ? 96 and 97
Want a black/silver stripes? 00 or 01
Etc…..

Yeah you sorta called it there..... I want blue and white.... or Black with Silver stripes... But am also good with the Silver with Blue Stripes. I dont know how I feel about putting Vinyl stripes on a car... for some reason that feels like cheating.. but I do like the idea of trying different color stripes out. So not sure there. I am not a fan of Yellow, however there is a Yellow with black stripes 2001 ACR near me that is something I am considering.

As for Price point... I can go as high as $90k for the right car. Which I would say is Blue with stripes, Very good condition, maybe 40k (ish) miles. As I said above there is a 2001 yellow with black striped ACR that I am eyeballing for $90k. If it was blue or black with stripes it would be a done deal... I cant quite convince myself on the yellow.

Thanks all for the responses!

My black/silver

 

[BoondocSaint]

The difference in the cams is a slightly more aggressive profile with the 708 cam, in layman's terms, sounds lumpy like an aftermarket cam. They went away from that cam in 2000 to cut back on car and shifter vibration. I like the sound from the 708 cam with aftermarket exhaust.

The forged internals can handle more abuse with power adder applications. General consensus is the forged motor is stronger, but aftermarket forged parts are stronger than the factory forged parts.

 

[StreetGrime]

My black/silver

Good God that thing is amazing. I salute you sir, thanks for the pics!

What year was the Viper writing on the side done in silver? That would be the only thing I wish this car had... but its super minor obviously. Such a beautiful car...

Like this! (image below)

 

[luc]

The difference in the cams is a slightly more aggressive profile with the 708 cam, in layman's terms, sounds lumpy like an aftermarket cam. They went away from that cam in 2000 to cut back on car and shifter vibration. I like the sound from the 708 cam with aftermarket exhaust.

The forged internals can handle more abuse with power adder applications. General consensus is the forged motor is stronger, but aftermarket forged parts are stronger than the factory forged parts.

Correct but in the meantime the fastest ever stock gen2 was a 2000 Rt10

 

[StreetGrime]

The difference in the cams is a slightly more aggressive profile with the 708 cam, in layman's terms, sounds lumpy like an aftermarket cam. They went away from that cam in 2000 to cut back on car and shifter vibration. I like the sound from the 708 cam with aftermarket exhaust.

The forged internals can handle more abuse with power adder applications. General consensus is the forged motor is stronger, but aftermarket forged parts are stronger than the factory forged parts.

Thank you for this info.... but yeah if I had to bet I will end up with a '99 or earlier anyhow.

Good info, thanks again.

 

[GTS Dean]

I had a good friend with a '99GTS - Black/Silver with Connolly interior. Beautiful car.

 

[luc]

Btw, the 99 and up have a slightly nicer interior. Slight but quite noticeable

 

[StreetGrime]

Btw, the 99 and up have a slightly nicer interior. Slight but quite noticeable

I did not know this... OR notice.. since I have checked out a few Vipers lately.

What is the difference exactly?

 

[luc]

I did not know this... OR notice.. since I have checked out a few Vipers lately.

What is the difference exactly?

New door handles, power mirrors, new gear lever, hand brake lever, all aluminum satin finished, aluminum rings around gauges,, and a few other stuff

 

[Bonkers]

The downside is you don't get a 708 cam. Granted a custom
ground cam will be better than a 708, but most people arn't
going to want to dick around with a cam swap.

Im going with the, possibly misguided, assumption that
if StreetGrime is debating ABS v. NonABS as a purchase point,
subtle issues like cams and forged internals really dont make
much difference in selling points. I feel like the most bland version
of a Gen1/2 isnt THAT much different to the top of the line special
editions to someone starting out.

Had he come here saying "im looking to TT or AutoX, ect..." then
youd get into the minutiae of cam lobes and rod strength. If you
just want a fun car that you can enjoy driving to the beach for a
weekend... then a creampuff gen2 with ABS will still have PLENTY of
excitement to get you there.

 

[StreetGrime]

Im going with the, possibly misguided, assumption that
if StreetGrime is debating ABS v. NonABS as a purchase point,
subtle issues like cams and forged internals really dont make
much difference in selling points. I feel like the most bland version
of a Gen1/2 isnt THAT much different to the top of the line special
editions to someone starting out.

Had he come here saying "im looking to TT or AutoX, ect..." then
youd get into the minutiae of cam lobes and rod strength. If you
just want a fun car that you can enjoy driving to the beach for a
weekend... then a creampuff gen2 with ABS will still have PLENTY of
excitement to get you there.

And you would be ABSOLUTELY Correct! I want something that Looks good, Is mechanically sound.. .and the Right color. If someone has EXACTLY what I want, but they had it modified PROFESSIONALLY to have more horsepower (other than maybe the smooth intake tubes change) ... I would pass. I just want a vanilla Viper that is in top condition so I can Love it and squeeze it and sit in my garage next to it and wax it and have a beer while I stare at it while watching Jay Lenos Garage. I will take my wife for Beach drives.... and I might drive it to the Gym, but only during the week when people are at work and the kids are in school.... and go for just cruising rides during the week.. once again around 10am when everyone is at work or at school. Its just a super nice toy that I can baby. And I am not into racing in any way, I dont care if your Corvette can beat me... I just want to cruise around slowly and be awesome! OH, and I will take it to Cars and Coffee sometimes with my son. Thats it!

To really drive my point home.... I dont know what it cost, but if someone GAVE me the parts to put in a new Cam.. I would most likely just sell them on Ebay. Assuming its worth over a few grand, otherwise I dont wanna mess with it. But yeah, I do thank everyone for the awesome responses!

I leave you all with a song to give you the vibe....

Foghat - Slow Ride (Official Audio)

You're listening to the official audio for Foghat's "Slow Ride" from the album 'Fool for the City' (1975). It was named the 45th best Hard Rock song ever b...

www.youtube.com

 

[daveg]

That's why I originally said to get what color you want, if its B/W, guess what, NO ABS, you get Forged Internals and the 708 though. If its a color after 99, you will get ABS but not the other stuff. Your original question is does ABS matter, the general consensus is pretty much a NO!

If the color you want was available in all years, then you have a decision to make. With what you are going to do with the car, none of it matters but Color.
Pretty simple!

 

[BoondocSaint]

I agree with everyone's points to what appears to be your wheelhouse. Beyond knowledge for differences in year groups, I get the impression that ABS or no, either car will give you everything you're looking for. Find a car you like and get out there feeling good behind the wheel of an icon.

 

[99RT10GTS]

Just for reference, the fastest stock Viper was a 2000 that did an 11.77 in the quarter mile(Creampuff). Worst year ever too!! No Forged internals, no ABS