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  1. black mamba1

    black mamba1 Viper Owner

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    And no, I'm not gloating. But I was right about the Gen 5 Viper when the stats came out, and I wrote that article, The Death of the Viper. And of course I was vilified in here, which is really what I expected.

    But its the truth. No one outside of Viper World is really excited about a new Viper that runs mid 3's zero to 60 and mid 11's in the 1/4 mile. Say all you want about the car, 'its more Viperish" (whatever that means), its exotic, its not a Vette. None of that makes a craps worth of difference to most sports car enthusiasts, especially those willing to pay $120,000 or more for a car with mediocre performance stats. SRT had to make a special version, the Time Attack, to beat the OUTGOING Zr-1 in a head to head road test.

    That's improvement? No, its not. Its really kinda sad. Had GM designed a Vette to compete with the outgoing Gen 4 Viper we would have laughed them off the track, but that is exactly what SRT did with the Gen 5 Viper according to Ralph Gilles in an interview where he said "we had a Zr-1 and we used it as a measure", and I am somewhat paraphrasing, but that is the gist of what he said.

    SRT Viper sales are down...way down. And I dont care how many special chrome-colored Anondized editions SRT makes, unless and until a 750-800 hp version of this car is made available off the showroom floor and not just in the tuner market, I said it last spring and I will say it again.....and it doesnt matter how many dealerships Ralph visits and takes Gen 5 cars around to let people drive...without that extra 100-150 hp....

    This Viper is doomed.

    [HR][/HR]
     
  2. ferraritoviper

    ferraritoviper Viper Owner

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    Ya, I remember your puke ass manifesto. Get a life dude..the majority of new G5 owners didn't buy it to race., and those that did, are happy with their rides.
     
  3. VENOM V

    VENOM V Enthusiast

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    Mamba, you are one confused, manic-depressed, hate-filled fool. Here is one of your most recent posts. It speaks for itself....

     
  4. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

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    blah blah blah, I have nothing constructive to add.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  5. HobokenViper

    HobokenViper Viper Owner

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    Mediocre stats? The Gen V stats that you quoted above are hardly mediocre as they are Supercar stats that most cars costing nearly double can hardly touch. Sure the ZR1 or Z06 are all around the same ballpark give or take some, but I don't know any car guys that consider the Vette's stats "mediocre" either. Unless of course you own a Bugatti Veyron or McLaren P1, and then the Viper may feel mediocre in comparison.

    Sales are down not because of the things you mentioned above, but rather largely because of a bungled launch that failed to get orders into many customers hands, and instead into dealers showrooms who put excessive premiums on the price of the cars, where they continue to sit collecting dust today. Pissed many potential owners off, many of which cancelled their orders because they couldn't get their cars while watching so many Gen V's collecting dust at so many dealerships around the country at inflated prices. That, combined with the slow ramp up with producing the car and delays in actual production and deliveries, and you start annoying many potential owners and even lose them. Now that the new Vette is out, and it's also a world class car at a lower price point with better versions on the horizon, it will remain to be seen what happens in the next 2 years with Viper sales.

    I don't predict the death of the Viper at all, but rather an autocorrect of sorts from SRT in its greatly flawed launch, bad Media coverage from poor marketing efforts, getting cars directly out to fulfill customer orders in lieu of dealer showroom cars, and hopefully dealers will also be forced to sell the cars at MSRP instead of at crazy inflated prices which tends to happen in the first year a special car like the Viper hits the market.

    I will say that GM has done a hell of a great job in marketing the C7. Have you seen all the media in magazines? The amazing commercials? The ads in movie theaters? The print and video ads in public outdoor places? Genius stuff!!!!! It got me excited about the car as the more I see it and read about it, the more I like it. My only gripe with the SRT is that had I not seen the Gen V in person, I may not have ever fallen in love with it as photos truly don't do it justice, and I don't think I've seen even one ad for the Viper anywhere. How do you attract current non-Viper owners to buy one if you don't do a great job of getting it in front of them? Big fail there too.....but that doesn't do anything to lessen the fact that the Viper is an absolutely world class sports car that now competes with the best out there with its dramatic improvements in the Gen V version.

    Now please, enough of these repetitive threads already. All the complaining got old a long time ago because it is an awesome car that has improved in almost every possible way, except for the price. You don't like the performance numbers? Don't buy one.....very simple, but don't go making posts over and over again that keep kicking a dead horse that was never even a horse to begin with.
     
  6. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    Keith is entitled to his opinion. There is no reason to attack him personally. He likes to debate. And of course those who bought the Gen V like it. It is a very rare person who would say "I spent 100K plus and I made a mistake". With that said, there can be no debate that the character of the Viper has changed over the years as the car became more and more refined and other manufacturers put more effort into their high performance vehicles.

    The days when the stock Viper dominated its performance category by a significant margin are over. The development budget for the Viper was, and is, limited. And, with slow sales, it is unlikely that the bean counters at Chrysler will authorize any significant dollars to quickly develop a 700 - 750 HP car.

    So the bottom line is that those who like the design, which is very good looking, the new upgraded interior, the available level of performance and the relative exclusivity will buy the car.

    One of the more difficult problems has been getting people with the 100K plus to walk into Dodge dealerships. The dealer experience is not at the level of the competing manufacturers' dealer experiences - like a Porsche or Audi dealership. A dealer paying 25K for the right to sell the car and other SRT products does not make a dump into a palace and sales people used to selling cars at less than one half the price into salespeople knowlegable about the potential Viper customer and how to treat him or her. To me, the Gen V Viper should have been sold in an environment similar to the one experienced when you visit a Ferrari dealer.
     
  7. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

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    blah blah blah, I have nothing constructive to add
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  8. mikesax

    mikesax Viper Owner

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    Not fast enough-too much money-mediocre dealer base=miserable little pr.cks with plenty of time to criticize what things are not!
    Happy big pr.cks drive an incredibly fast, elegantly styled, exclusively hand made auto that rocks their world a little bit every day!
    Ferrari-Venom-Hoboken-Smith=HAPPY BIG PEOPLE!!! You guys ROCK!!
     
  9. I Bin Therbefor

    I Bin Therbefor Enthusiast

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    FWIS (from where I stand) the Gen V is a lot of style, fashion, and quality upgrade without appreciable upgrade in performance compared to previous Viper generations. I believe Tean Viper did all they could with the budget/time. I also believe they ran into some start up costs they had not anticipated (see the Viper book on how the budget on the engine was consumed by non performance issues). Some fundamental issues were not addressed, as the foot box for the driver. Some fundemental adds were not available, an AT. My best said is that they cleaned up and prettied up the car but did not appreciably improve performance or eliminate some negatives. Having said that, I am an Enthusiast. So while I can complain about the home team, nobody else from another team had better try that.:nono:
     
  10. black mamba1

    black mamba1 Viper Owner

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    I love Vipers, every generation. I think Viper nation is a rare and unique group of guys and my wife and I love the Viper nation experience.

    But I hate losing. I absolutely hate it. The Viper got its reputation by being a bad-ass in-your-face design and backed up that bad-assness with bad ass scary performance numbers. And THAT is how Viper got its reputation. But go to any car show and see if others there are really intimidated by the new Viper. Awwed, yes. Impressed...yes. Complimentary...yes. Intimidated?

    No.

    Because every sports car enthusiast while knowing that yes...the SRT Viper is fast....its not as fast (by street standards) or as quick as:

    - The Ferrari Italia thats been out for several years
    - The outgoing Zr-1 (according to most mags)
    - The Nissan GT-R, older version
    - The GT-R mid version
    - The GT-R Nismo newest version
    - The Porsche 911 Turbo newest version
    - The Porsche 911 Turbo last version
    - The Ferrari 599
    - The Ferrari F12
    - The Lambo Murci LP-670
    - The Lambo Aventador
    - The upcoming Corvette Z06
    - The upcoming Corvette ZR1

    And there are several other cars I could name.

    So...you want to be taken seriously as a sports car, right? But every single serious sports car made world-wide kicks the SRT Vipers ass in a head to head road race, which is where 99% of sports car races occur. Even at the drag strip this SRT Viper loses to each and every one of those cars listed above. So who are we competing with now? Mustangs? The entry level Vettes?

    Wake up and smell the coffee guys b/c the argument I just made is what non Viper owners are debating when they walk into a Chrysler dealership.

    The new SRT Viper is fast, but not fast enough by 2013 standards. The Viper is intimidating, but not intimidating enough, and its exotic...but not quite exotic enough.

    I love the Viper, but any objective observer will quickly tell you that another year or two with these kind of sales and Fiat pulls the plug. The good news is that all our Vipers will double or triple in value. The bad news is that I was right about the Death of the Viper.

    But maybe, just maybe, instead of attacking me maybe we get together and talk to Ralph and SRT...and get them to develop that Viper that will become that car that puts the competition in its place and restores the Viper lore. Maybe....
     
  11. ferraritoviper

    ferraritoviper Viper Owner

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    Well Bob, if he likes to debate, then he deals with the **** that comes his way.

    As for a 'rare' person, I spent a $178k, factory ordering a 2004 F Modena...a financial mistake. Drove it for 5 yrs at a total of 5000 miles. Took a loss on selling it in, but it was a glorious car...would I do it again, absolutely no. It did not have the "muscle" that I yearned for from the early 60's, but had the panache! A mistake...there you go.

    As for the Dodge name tag, doesn't the Bugatti carry the VW? As for expecting the Ferrari experience at any USA car dealer...ani't gonna hapen.

    What all the nay sayers, doubters, previous gen owners, etc etc need to get a grip on, is that they are wanna be's...if they owned one, they'd all be singing a different melody. I can afford ANY muscle/supercar out there...I chose Viper (esprcailly as ECS is on board :), as it is the only one that is in your face across the board, and drives like a REAL car!

    And finally, as to HP...who gives a **** except teenagers? Where are you going to use it (except if you live in mid America), besides a track or a strip...where the majority of G5 owners don't go...just like the majority of the F's Lambos, Bugs, fugly Porche (had a few) and so on.

    The G5 should be embraced for what it is...need I go through the numbers?
     
  12. 09 Venom

    09 Venom Viper Owner

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    All those cars listed are faster than the Viper at Laguna Seca?? the Nurburgring?? I would double check that if I were you?? IF I spent $450,000 on an Aventador it better be faster in a straight line than a 125k car! USED 458's are going for 250K.. only the GTR is impressive for the price and the #'s it puts up but the cars styling is horrendous.
     
  13. VENOM V

    VENOM V Enthusiast

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    Maybe you wouldn't be "attacked" if you didn't start off with "Told ya..." Most of us grew out of your drama queen BS in grade school.

    I've seen your rants in the past. If others want to put up with it fine. Not me.
     
  14. VENOM V

    VENOM V Enthusiast

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    Thank you, well said.
     
  15. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

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    Remember, this is the "complain about the Gen V" forum.

    You are wasting your keystrokes.

    The Gen V could have 750HP and people would still complain about something. Much like those complaining the Viper is "too refined" yet complain the TA only comes with cloth seats.
     
  16. VENOM V

    VENOM V Enthusiast

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    LOL Harold, you're right. Why get sucked into this BS. But some people just need a swift kick in the nuts. Figuratively speaking of course. Happy to oblige :D
     
  17. viper k

    viper k Viper Owner

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    yes i agree the best bang for your buck is the corvette But you don't get the thrill out of a corvette like a viper !!
     
  18. Solid Red 98

    Solid Red 98 Viper Owner

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    If you like/love a Viper it is a great car. Can I find things wrong with it? yes. Can I find things wrong with any car, or any thing? Yes. Do I buy a car because it is the "whateverest?" No. For those of you who bought the new Viper, enjoy the hell out of it, boost the car's attributes and don't look back. For those of you who seem to just love to whine, and moan about what the car is or isn't..... GET SOMETHING ELSE and don't look back...
     
  19. Voice of Reason

    Voice of Reason Viper Owner

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    As much as I'd like to make a real reply to the OP I sit here thinking no matter what I say this place will be filled with haters. Nothing will change that.

    So instead I think the only thing us actual Gen 5 owners can do is ignore them so they go away. Which is easy now that we have a better place for us to gather are share our stories about real ownership.
     
  20. black mamba1

    black mamba1 Viper Owner

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    Ok.

    So, you've heard what I have had to say, and I have heard what you have had to say. When it comes to the Viper-Vette argument your argument is..."at least we are not a Vette, we are exotic." And when it comes to comparing to exotics we say, "well if I spent $762,183.19 on a car it damn well better do 10 fuggin six in the friggin quarter fuggin mile!"

    ok.

    So we are too exotic for Vette comparisons but not exotic enough for the "truly exotic" comparisons and if I really loved Vipers I would not be calling attention to any of this and anyone can bring up anything about any car at any time. Right? Thats your argument...right?

    ok.

    Well, let me simplify things for you. I like the Republican party, but the Republican party does so much stupid **** that they are a shrinking party year after year...and since they live in the bubble of Fox News they have no idea of how the real world sees them. And although everything I've said about the Republican Party in this forum has come true....its totally ignored. And what has happened? They live in a bubble and have no idea how the rest of the world sees them.
    I
    I graduated from and love Mississippi State. But our current coach sucks and although everything I've written about him over the past few years has been attacked and dismissed and I've had post after post deleted, even the post I wrote last year saying how our starting quarterback was too fragile to play in Dan Mullens system in the SEC....people called for me to be banned from State sport sites. But...what has happened? Our starting quarterback has had to leave EVERY SINGLE GAME he has started in due to injuries (like 5 of 6 games). We suck this year, but State fans live in a bubble and have no idea how the rest of the nation sees them.

    Guys, the new SRT Viper is not a dominant sports car...one might even go so far as to say its marginally significant sports-car wise. BUT...most guys in here live in a bubble and have no concept of what I am talking about. In fact...I am the problem...not the new Viper.

    Fine...if that is the view/position you want to take...fine by me. I will let the results of what keeps happening to the Republican Party candidates in non-gerrymandered districts speak for themselves. I will let Mississippi States football record speak for itself.

    And I will let what most professionals who test drive the SRT Viper have to say about this car....and its disappointing sales performance......

    also speak for itself.

    Sooner or later either you come out of the bubble on your own accord...or the world and reality busts your bubble. But make no mistake, one way or another...you are coming out of that bubble you live in. The Viper is going to be discontinued if they do not make the changes I have suggested. No need to keep going back and forth on this. Lets revisit this issue in two years....holla back then
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  21. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

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    I think your cat wondered into your keyboard.
     
  22. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    Yes Keith and everything I said about Obama in 2008 and 2012 came true. There are a number of reasons the Gen V has not sold well but I do not believe it is due to the car itself, which I think is the best design in its class when purchase price is taken into consideration, or its performance since it was never designed and engineered as a drag racer.

    As someone stated above, there were numerous marketing mistakes made after the successful launch event in New York. Three of them were very bad: The failure to produce the early ordered cars first instead of the spec dealer variants ( producing the ordered cars first would have put new Gen Vs on the road for everyone to see and post about); the FUBARed first Motor Trend test; and the FUBARed third comparo Motor Trend test.

    Other issues were that the panel fit of 13's was on a learning curve. By the time the 14s came out, the learning curve was complete. The calibration issues that popped up at the drag strip reported by JackB and Nine Ball were unfortunate ( SRT is aware of these issues and is working on it.).

    SRT clearly misread and underestimated the "hot rod" purchaser's needs and the importance of meeting them in order to appeal to that segement of purchasers. The marketing emphasis was, and still is, on the road racer as evidenced by the Viper racing program which eats up quite a bit of budget. But there are far more hot rodders and drag racers than road racers.

    SRT also underestimated the marketing significance of the Gen IV ACR. So many road course track rats wanted, and still want, a Gen V ACR ( the posts on this site show same), which is not available yet unless the TA is really the Gen V ACR. If the TA is the Gen V ACR, SRT needs to clearly indicate same.

    Overall, the marketing plan seems to have focused far too much on gimmicks and social media instead of some good Ads. I remember the red Gen II Hawai ad. It was, and still is, incredible. But evidently there is no budget for such an Ad now. Why else wouldn't they do one? A good Ad can create an enormous buzz like the Fiat 500 ads did with the tall, sexy brunette.
     
  23. kennyhemi

    kennyhemi Viper Owner

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    Just wasted 15 minutes of my life that I'm never getting back reading this useless thead that serves no purpose other than aggrevate the masses. Let's face it the reason the viper isn't selling is the same reason the ZR1 is out of production (economy) most people that are buying a car that cost $250k plus is not in the same class as one that of less than 125k I always say there is a different between rich and wealthy. If your Rich you have to work for it! Wealthy well that means your loaded and not affected by the economy as much. My experience is most viper owners are hard working individuals that sacrifice a little to buy their passion. But now that passion is a little out of reach! An that's why the vipers aren't selling, its the economy and less to do with the car itself!
     
  24. Twister

    Twister Viper Owner

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    The new viper seems to trapp an honest 126-130 mph on all the magazines. Likewise 0-60 in 3.2 seconds is the fastest rear wheel driven manual shifted 0-60 I've ever seen in a magazine.

    Its actually very fast.

    Come on... its 3300 piunds and purs down 550 rwhp on the dyno. With agressive gearing.

    A zr1 puts down 535 rwhp and weighs 3350 and people have said its a monster.

    The z06 puts down 440 rwhp and weighs 3200 pounds and to this day people still respect it.

    Is the genV fast? Lol you'd better belieave it. The only cars that are gonna beat in 60-140 mph are the bugatti aventador mc12 and f12.

    Check the price tags on those compared to a base viper at 102k.

    The new vipers power to weight mixed with drop dead looks and amazing interior is the best car for the dollar in the world.
     
  25. former345bhpLS1

    former345bhpLS1 Enthusiast

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    I think that all of us can agree that we don't actually know the performance of the upcoming Z06 (or Z07) or any other upcoming car.

    That aside, what car on that list is RWD with a manual transmission and faster than the Gen V?
    None of them. The C6 ZR1 is not faster than the Gen V and has been within a tenth in every test (except C&D where the Viper was 0.2 sec faster to 60).

    All of those cars are faster because of tech, not power.

    I really agree with BobPantax's last post, it's not so much about the car and the car issues are how it looks on paper much more than real life (IMHO).

    That said, the folks at SRT face a difficult challenge for the future. For the Gen V, budget dictated a car with minimal mechanical changes from the Gen IV, but for the future do they completely abandon the Viper's core characteristics (big displacement, direct driver involvement, F-R platform, manual transmission, etc) to make it post better numbers?

    Is it a Viper with a snake badge, but a GTR in every other respect? I think that I would rather see the Viper end it's run as a hold out to what made it a special car than end up as an automated, V8TT/V6TT, AWD, DCT, video game like car. I'm sure there are lots of people who feel differently, but if it drives just like a Porsche Turbo, McLaren 12C, or GTR - why buy it instead? Plus, none of those things will make the car more financially accessible.

    No easy answers around here, hence the reason everyone keeps talking about it (is this the 15th or 16th iteration of this basic conversation?).

    -Nick
     
  26. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    I think that when the Viper first came out it was only intended to have a fairly short life and then be replaced by a different "halo" car. It's success must have been a bit of a surprise. Now, all these years later, it, from a tech point of view, is becoming a magnificent anachronism. A rear wheel, six speed manual, 512 cubic inch V10 powered, long nosed beauty. The world of cars is moving away from much of what I have loved about cars for more than 50 years. In some ways that is good. In other ways, it is sad.
     
  27. former345bhpLS1

    former345bhpLS1 Enthusiast

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    Very eloquently said.

    -Nick
     
  28. black mamba1

    black mamba1 Viper Owner

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    Twister I've always valued your posts and that is some good info. The issue I have with the info is that you are offering is that you are comparing a 2013 Gen 5 Viper to 2006 technology in the Z06. And Bob, we can go on and on about marketing mistakes, production/quality mistakes, delivery issues...etc.

    But guess what? If you have fast car that kicks ass...no one give sh^t about any of those issues. If your car is putting the fear of god into people like the Aventador or the Bugatti...or hell...even a C7 Zr1 thats boasting 777 hp, you think the sales would suffer if the marketing, or delivery, or some quality issues were an issue? Do you really believe that?

    Dude, people wait YEARS for a Lambo or Bugatti, or even a Ford GT....people will wait years for a performer.

    Let me explain something to you Bob, my dear friend. Sports car guys car about SPEED. Plain and simple. Is my car faster than your car on a Friday night when I got the girl in my car that I've been trying to date for 8 months. We pull up at a red light after the movie, we make eye contact, we rev our motors, and when the light turns green we let em loose. If I win the race to the next light my girl thinks I'm a hero and that might just lead to some seriously incredible sex, a serious relationship, and maybe I can marry this beautiful blond/brunette/weave (lol) and build a great family and have a great life.

    Those are the primal instincts sports car guys have. When you get into situations where you have to explain mistakes in accounting, marketing, quality, delivery, expectations, strategy...yadda yadda this and yadda yadda that...dude...you have officially entered the realm of the Jaguar and Aston Marketing domain. You are now a bunch of fat over-aged dudes living off nostalgia and no longer considering performance of your sports car as the most important thing. In other words....you've lost your set of balls.

    Either the Viper is a fast ass bad ass car or it isn't. Plain and simple. And the fact of the matter is that by today's standards, the 2013 SRT Viper is not bad ass. If you make excuses for this car then I contend u've lost your set of balls...if you want the car to be that bad ass car then lets work together and get it there.

    And Bob....you were right that Obama would bring the economy back from the brink of depression...you were also right that President Obama would find and kill Osama Bin Laden, and you were also right that the stock market and the economy would also perform at record levels under President Obama....

    wait....wait...damn.....oooops...dang it...my facts or off.....that was not your position on President Obama...but I think it was just the way you delivered your information, or maybe it was the quality of your information, or maybe it was the schedule in how you delivered your information, or maybe it was the fact that you underestimated the demand of the plain Americans on how important the performance and accuracy of your data was.....but in any event Bob, my dear friend, you were wrong about President Obama, and you belong to a losing movement...and that was also a prediction of mine....

    shall we continue?;)
     
  29. CWhiteRun

    CWhiteRun Has Left the Room!

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    Blah, blah, blah.................... STFU. You f*** troll..................:mad:
     
  30. dru282

    dru282 Enthusiast

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    Dodge could make the best car in the world and some people still would find fault just like no matter what some people would still vote for Obama. At least there is hope for the first set.
     

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