Rich Wesorick
Enthusiast
I heard a rumor that Tommy has dropped out of competition in World Challenge GT this year. Anybody know any more?
Tommy Archer out of WCGT?
- Thread starter Rich Wesorick
- Start date
HOGDEALER
Enthusiast
The last race showed at Mid Ohio showed DSQ. Mosport showed - I was trying to find out the same thing.
Rich Wesorick
Enthusiast
According to the WCGT boards, his team imploded after the DQ...
More to it than that guys. A third of the field for the World Challenge Events are Vipers, yet only one car has been slower this year, and that is the Snake. SCCA supposedly added weight and other things to slow down the speeds from 2006, and so far only one vehicle has. Folks expected them to equal things out like their format states, whether by giving the Vipers less weight or less restriction ( yep they still run a restrictor plate ). If the Vipers leave it will be a lackluster field, but Autohaus choosing to leave was precipitated more by inequality than being a poorteam for Tommy to run for. More to it still, and maybe Autohaus or Tommy will answer, but at present, many feel it is time for SCCA to wake up and realize that playing favorites may mean a diminished field and eventually lack of interest ----- Trans Am died for much the same reason. They have the perfect rules in place to make the racing tight and exciting, but by ignoring their own recipe, they have made the Viper an also ran .................one with virtually the most restrictions ( on the engine and other modifications ) and heaviest of the field.
Let's see now...who is the President and CEO of SCCA???...AND, for whom did he formerly work ??? hummmmmmmm !!!!
WALL SMACKER
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I would like to respond to Super Proud Bill Pemberton's story about why Tommy Archer is out of WCGT because the rumor mill has eclipsed the facts. The SCCA is not a soap opera and favorites are not played. The goal is to have a level playing field that allows competitive honest racing and considering the diversity of design and performance I think they do a pretty good job. Here are the facts:
First, in response to the slower times, SCCA allowed Viper to use a larger front tire (so ABS-equipped Vipers have Stability Control). It happens to be the largest front tire allowed in SCCA racing currently.
Second, there was a weight reduction on all ABS equipped Vipers.
Third, SCCA approved a new 5th gear ratio for use at Mosport (unfortunately none of the teams brought the parts).
Fourth, SCCA made a 100 pound increase adjustment for all cars that will not effect most of the Vipers.
The facts around Tommy Archers departure are not so clear. Tommy qualified second, for the front row of the Mid Ohio race with an approved transmission. Archer's team owner came to the SCCA Stewards before the race and announced that the transmission was changed for the race to an unapproved version. It was two hours before the race and he was disqualified after the race. Subsequently he announced he was quiting. So either he was looking for an excuse or thought he deserved special treatment - you be the judge.
You could conclude that Viper got a raw deal coming off of last year. However, as is apparent from the numerous changes approved for the Viper, SCCA is aware of the problem and is trying to level the playing field. Perhaps people need to start driving and quit whining.
First, in response to the slower times, SCCA allowed Viper to use a larger front tire (so ABS-equipped Vipers have Stability Control). It happens to be the largest front tire allowed in SCCA racing currently.
Second, there was a weight reduction on all ABS equipped Vipers.
Third, SCCA approved a new 5th gear ratio for use at Mosport (unfortunately none of the teams brought the parts).
Fourth, SCCA made a 100 pound increase adjustment for all cars that will not effect most of the Vipers.
The facts around Tommy Archers departure are not so clear. Tommy qualified second, for the front row of the Mid Ohio race with an approved transmission. Archer's team owner came to the SCCA Stewards before the race and announced that the transmission was changed for the race to an unapproved version. It was two hours before the race and he was disqualified after the race. Subsequently he announced he was quiting. So either he was looking for an excuse or thought he deserved special treatment - you be the judge.
You could conclude that Viper got a raw deal coming off of last year. However, as is apparent from the numerous changes approved for the Viper, SCCA is aware of the problem and is trying to level the playing field. Perhaps people need to start driving and quit whining.
REDSLED
Enthusiast
So tell us Wall Smacker, what is your involvement in SCCA Pro Racing that allows you info to such information? Why are current Viper teams switching over to the Vettes? Perhaps people are tired of fighting GM and the favortism they are afforded and have just decided to join them instead.
For you to even come on this board and give us your unabridged version of the facts does indicate that SCCA is a soap opera or else you wouldn't feel compelled to do so. Your post about whining drivers is a another version of whining in and of itself. So are you *** or kettle?
For you to even come on this board and give us your unabridged version of the facts does indicate that SCCA is a soap opera or else you wouldn't feel compelled to do so. Your post about whining drivers is a another version of whining in and of itself. So are you *** or kettle?
Wallbanger is a good guy, and he does know plenty about the situation,likely alot more than I, though I am confused about a few of the comments he mentioned.
From what I understand the larger tire on the Viper is only on the cars that have disengaged the ABS system.
The ABS system adds 50 lbs to the cars and they have to go back to the smaller tire, if I understand correctly?
The fifth gear situation is just a comedy of errors, where they were allowed, but there are none available( there is a fitment issue) and were not used in Mosport as they didn't exist.
Needless to say, both he and I are long time SCCA members and I am more concerned with the general nature of the feelings amongst the competitors and his last paragraph stating that SCCA is aware of the issues is the most heartening comment I have heard. Trans Am was a killer venue that has flittered away ( not due to anyone on the Board or the current CEO ) , but there is a real fear among many out there, that we might be going down the same path. One little sentence doesn't sound like much , but awareness is key and if it is there ,things may improve dramatically.
We have pride in the Vipers that run, but we also don't want to see a mass exodus, and small fields do not help any racing series, so it is in everyone's interest to get balance back.
Nuff said on my part.
From what I understand the larger tire on the Viper is only on the cars that have disengaged the ABS system.
The ABS system adds 50 lbs to the cars and they have to go back to the smaller tire, if I understand correctly?
The fifth gear situation is just a comedy of errors, where they were allowed, but there are none available( there is a fitment issue) and were not used in Mosport as they didn't exist.
Needless to say, both he and I are long time SCCA members and I am more concerned with the general nature of the feelings amongst the competitors and his last paragraph stating that SCCA is aware of the issues is the most heartening comment I have heard. Trans Am was a killer venue that has flittered away ( not due to anyone on the Board or the current CEO ) , but there is a real fear among many out there, that we might be going down the same path. One little sentence doesn't sound like much , but awareness is key and if it is there ,things may improve dramatically.
We have pride in the Vipers that run, but we also don't want to see a mass exodus, and small fields do not help any racing series, so it is in everyone's interest to get balance back.
Nuff said on my part.
WALL SMACKER
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It is apparent that Bill has me confused with someone else, however I appreciate the kind words for whomever they are due. There seems to be a lot of confusion over the rule changes and out of the confusion has come much conjecture that is not based on fact. Therefore, as we all want to see Vipers compete in SCCA racing I am going to make an attempt to clear up any confusion with the proper site for people to refer and verify the information. If confusion remains and these rule changes impact you, call SCCA for an explanation.
Viper Changes for 2007
Source Date Change
TB #4 April 7 2007
Without ABS: Base weight decrease from 3200lbs to 3100lbs. (-100 lbs) Allowed to run 305 front tire.
With ABS: Base weight decrease from 3300lbs to 3200lbs. (-100 lbs) Required to run 275 front tire.
TB #5 May 8 2007
Without ABS: Restrictor from 30% to 20%, weight increase from 3100 lbs to 3125 lbs. (+25 lbs)
With ABS: Restrictor from 30% to 20%, weight increase from 3200lbs to 3225lbs. (+ 25 lbs)
The purpose of the weight increase was to give teams more ballast to improve weight distribution, while the restrictor change was to offset the effect of the added weight on acceleration.
TB #7 July 13 2007 Viper was addressed with and without ABS.
Without ABS: Base weight decrease from 3125lbs to 3100lbs. (-25lbs)
With ABS: Base weight decrease from 3225lbs to 3150 lbs. (-75 lbs)
TB#7 July 13 2007
With ABS Front tire width increased to 305.
Type 2 Request August 8 2007 New 5th and 6th gear ratios approved for all Vipers.
A shorter fifth gear was approved to improve high speed acceleration. The original fifth gear is too long, once the Vipers shift into fifth their acceleration drops off relative to the other cars.
Originally a request a 0.80 ratio fifth gear was requested. The SCCA approved a 0.85, based on their analysis this would be a bigger improvement than the 0.80 ratio.
The approval for the Type 2 request on the website says pretty much the same thing as above:
(http://www.world-challenge.com/files/competitors/2007 Decision on alt 5th and 6th for Viper.pdf )
[According to Dodge, Liberty Transmission is ready to cut the gears whenever a team calls and orders them.]
TB#9 August 31, 2007
All GT Car increase in weight by 3.3 percent (roughly +100 pounds). Prior to this change most Vipers could not get to the minimum weight. This change levels the playing field among competing automobiles.
Viper Changes for 2007
Source Date Change
TB #4 April 7 2007
Without ABS: Base weight decrease from 3200lbs to 3100lbs. (-100 lbs) Allowed to run 305 front tire.
With ABS: Base weight decrease from 3300lbs to 3200lbs. (-100 lbs) Required to run 275 front tire.
TB #5 May 8 2007
Without ABS: Restrictor from 30% to 20%, weight increase from 3100 lbs to 3125 lbs. (+25 lbs)
With ABS: Restrictor from 30% to 20%, weight increase from 3200lbs to 3225lbs. (+ 25 lbs)
The purpose of the weight increase was to give teams more ballast to improve weight distribution, while the restrictor change was to offset the effect of the added weight on acceleration.
TB #7 July 13 2007 Viper was addressed with and without ABS.
Without ABS: Base weight decrease from 3125lbs to 3100lbs. (-25lbs)
With ABS: Base weight decrease from 3225lbs to 3150 lbs. (-75 lbs)
TB#7 July 13 2007
With ABS Front tire width increased to 305.
Type 2 Request August 8 2007 New 5th and 6th gear ratios approved for all Vipers.
A shorter fifth gear was approved to improve high speed acceleration. The original fifth gear is too long, once the Vipers shift into fifth their acceleration drops off relative to the other cars.
Originally a request a 0.80 ratio fifth gear was requested. The SCCA approved a 0.85, based on their analysis this would be a bigger improvement than the 0.80 ratio.
The approval for the Type 2 request on the website says pretty much the same thing as above:
(http://www.world-challenge.com/files/competitors/2007 Decision on alt 5th and 6th for Viper.pdf )
[According to Dodge, Liberty Transmission is ready to cut the gears whenever a team calls and orders them.]
TB#9 August 31, 2007
All GT Car increase in weight by 3.3 percent (roughly +100 pounds). Prior to this change most Vipers could not get to the minimum weight. This change levels the playing field among competing automobiles.
REDSLED
Enthusiast
– Following the race at Mid-Ohio, Autohaus Motorsports made the deliberate decision to withdraw from the remainder of the 2007 Speed World Challenge GT Season. It was a decision that developed over the course of the season, and was ultimately based upon discussions with SCCA officials and management prior to the Mid-Ohio race weekend, and events that occurred that weekend. It has absolutely nothing to do with funding problems, or sponsor relationship issues. Autohaus Motorsports withdrew from the remainder of the 2007 Speed World Challenge GT Season primarily based on the decisions and actions of the Speed World Challenge GT technical staff. It was certainly not a decision that was made lightly, and hopefully will be a catalyst for the changes needed to restore World Challenge racing to the stature and prominence it once had.
Autohaus Motorsports is a very strong supporter of SCCA and World Challenge racing and we are disappointed that the season ended for us under these circumstances. Autohaus’ business is racing. We have built a professional team with factory sponsorship and support from Mopar/Dodge, hired a highly skilled championship winning driver in Tommy Archer. For this reason it is not unreasonable for Autohaus to expect to finish on the podium and be part of the chase for the championship.
Throughout the 2007 season, the SCCA technical staff has made it impossible for any of the Viper teams to be consistently competitive. Top 10 finishes, much less a chance at the Championship were not even possibilities for Viper teams in 2007. Faced with the prohibitive rules package, Autohaus spent considerable time and financial resources to give our Viper a competitive edge. We made the decision to modify the #5 car to fully utilize the existing rules package for all competitors (the general pro racing regulations), modifying our Viper beyond any previous Competition Coupe, but well within the SCCA technical specifications. These changes were labor intensive, and costly; yet they were necessary for our team to achieve our goals because SCCA was not willing to make the available, cost effective competition adjustments that could have helped all Viper teams.
The imbalance in technical rules resulted in an imbalance within the racing field: on average, Autohaus was competing for, at best, a 5th place finish--1.5 seconds behind the leaders, but based upon our modifications, 1.5 seconds ahead of other Viper teams.
Before round 3 in Utah we convinced SCCA, that based upon their rules package, contrary to common perception, Vipers are allowed to run a version of an aftermarket engine management system, just as all other competitors were allowed to. We installed a system, and had the good fortune of a first place finish in Utah. Our success was not because of the strength of our Viper, but because of the misfortune of other competitors. The early season dominance of the Whelen Engineering Corvette was halted with a DNF, and the K-PAX Porsche who posted the fastest lap of the race spun trying to pass the Autohaus Viper for the lead and recovered to finish 4th. Had those events not occurred, we would have been racing for our usual 5th place finish. Because of our first place finish, SCCA assumed they had remedied the disparity within the field.
The next three races proved that assumption incorrect. The front running Corvettes and Porsches, now running with significant REWARDS weight, were still dominating the field. The Viper field continued to struggle for a top 10 finish, while we battled for 5th place.
Prior to Mid-Ohio, feeling pressure from all the Viper teams and the manufacturer, SCCA made an unprecedented decision to split the Viper teams into Full-Prep, the Autohaus car, and Limited-Prep, the rest of the field. This rule change allowed the SCCA technical staff to make competitive adjustments to the Autohaus Viper singularly. During this period, Autohaus’ Engineer was forwarded a draft of the VTS for the Full-Prep and Limited-Prep Vipers by SCCA technical staff. In the draft, Full-Prep cars were given a dog ring gearbox, although not with the gearing requested and removal of the engine air restrictor. Finally, some changes that would not cost significant dollars and time. When the VTS was released the next day, the only change made for the Full-Prep was the dog ring gearbox, the same gearbox that McCann racing ran at Long Beach and was disqualified for using.
Based upon the modifications, we realized that we would still be competing for 5th place at best, at a point in the season when REWARDS weight should be significantly slowing down our competitors. Before leaving for Mid-Ohio the team principals had extensive discussions with SCCA management regarding the future of World Challenge and what had gone wrong in recent years. We expressed our opinion that lack of continuity and enforcement of the rules package, coupled with a lack of resources for SCCA’s technical staff has driven competitors to search for other series with a more stable, equitable rules package. The technical missteps have created increasingly rising costs for competitors and have made it cost prohibitive for some teams to race. During these discussions we provided SCCA with all our data, and support for our request to run the gearbox with the modified ratios. Based on their decision to have split preparations and VTS specifications for the Viper, allowing our request would have been fairly simple with little or no effect on other teams. We told them that we had the gearbox and we were prepared to run it. Their ultimate decision was what it has been all season; not now, let’s wait and see. We do believe that the new management at SCCA Pro realizes their challenges, and we believe they are going to do everything in their power to bring World Challenge Racing back to where it should be.
Autohaus Motorsports made the decision to run our gearbox with the alternate gearing at Mid-Ohio. We notified the SCCA technical director , Shawn Passen, of our decision to do so PRIOR to the start of the race. We knew it was a no win situation, but we needed to prove that the adjustments we were asking for would not allow us to dominate the field, as the Corvettes and Porsches have been able to do all season, but simply give us a chance to compete. The gearbox did just that, and we posted a hard fought second place finish behind a car with 60 pounds of REWARDS weight where the Autohaus Viper had no REWARDS weight. Following the race, the team was disqualified for running the gearbox we told SCCA was in the car. Subsequently SCCA’s approval of this gearbox is pending.
When we made our decision we knew it had the potential for ending our season, but hoped that SCCA would finally make the right choice. With the disqualification, and a prohibitive rules package throughout the season, the possibility of achieving our goal of a championship season was over. We don’t expect to be given a win; we expect the series to balance the rules so that anyone who puts in the time, money and preparation as we and other Viper teams have done, has a chance to win. Today, that is not a reality.
We are focusing our efforts and resources on developing our program for next year. We will be exploring all our options, deciding which series has the most balanced, fair rules package, provides the most effective exposure for our sponsors and for building our business. We plan to continue our relationship with Tommy Archer and hope to add other talented drivers to our team.
Our hope is that World Challenge will remedy all of the issues that have plagued them over the past few years. We are confident that Bob Wildberger and the team he is building have the desire to achieve that. In the end, World Challenge racing has the potential to be an incredible series. We hope that SCCA Pro can write a competitive rules package that will showcase the strengths of the series. If they can accomplish this, Autohaus Motorsports will proudly return next season.
I would like to thank all of our fans and sponsors for their continued support.
Regards
Nathan McBride
Execuitive Director
Autohaus Motorsports
Autohaus Motorsports is a very strong supporter of SCCA and World Challenge racing and we are disappointed that the season ended for us under these circumstances. Autohaus’ business is racing. We have built a professional team with factory sponsorship and support from Mopar/Dodge, hired a highly skilled championship winning driver in Tommy Archer. For this reason it is not unreasonable for Autohaus to expect to finish on the podium and be part of the chase for the championship.
Throughout the 2007 season, the SCCA technical staff has made it impossible for any of the Viper teams to be consistently competitive. Top 10 finishes, much less a chance at the Championship were not even possibilities for Viper teams in 2007. Faced with the prohibitive rules package, Autohaus spent considerable time and financial resources to give our Viper a competitive edge. We made the decision to modify the #5 car to fully utilize the existing rules package for all competitors (the general pro racing regulations), modifying our Viper beyond any previous Competition Coupe, but well within the SCCA technical specifications. These changes were labor intensive, and costly; yet they were necessary for our team to achieve our goals because SCCA was not willing to make the available, cost effective competition adjustments that could have helped all Viper teams.
The imbalance in technical rules resulted in an imbalance within the racing field: on average, Autohaus was competing for, at best, a 5th place finish--1.5 seconds behind the leaders, but based upon our modifications, 1.5 seconds ahead of other Viper teams.
Before round 3 in Utah we convinced SCCA, that based upon their rules package, contrary to common perception, Vipers are allowed to run a version of an aftermarket engine management system, just as all other competitors were allowed to. We installed a system, and had the good fortune of a first place finish in Utah. Our success was not because of the strength of our Viper, but because of the misfortune of other competitors. The early season dominance of the Whelen Engineering Corvette was halted with a DNF, and the K-PAX Porsche who posted the fastest lap of the race spun trying to pass the Autohaus Viper for the lead and recovered to finish 4th. Had those events not occurred, we would have been racing for our usual 5th place finish. Because of our first place finish, SCCA assumed they had remedied the disparity within the field.
The next three races proved that assumption incorrect. The front running Corvettes and Porsches, now running with significant REWARDS weight, were still dominating the field. The Viper field continued to struggle for a top 10 finish, while we battled for 5th place.
Prior to Mid-Ohio, feeling pressure from all the Viper teams and the manufacturer, SCCA made an unprecedented decision to split the Viper teams into Full-Prep, the Autohaus car, and Limited-Prep, the rest of the field. This rule change allowed the SCCA technical staff to make competitive adjustments to the Autohaus Viper singularly. During this period, Autohaus’ Engineer was forwarded a draft of the VTS for the Full-Prep and Limited-Prep Vipers by SCCA technical staff. In the draft, Full-Prep cars were given a dog ring gearbox, although not with the gearing requested and removal of the engine air restrictor. Finally, some changes that would not cost significant dollars and time. When the VTS was released the next day, the only change made for the Full-Prep was the dog ring gearbox, the same gearbox that McCann racing ran at Long Beach and was disqualified for using.
Based upon the modifications, we realized that we would still be competing for 5th place at best, at a point in the season when REWARDS weight should be significantly slowing down our competitors. Before leaving for Mid-Ohio the team principals had extensive discussions with SCCA management regarding the future of World Challenge and what had gone wrong in recent years. We expressed our opinion that lack of continuity and enforcement of the rules package, coupled with a lack of resources for SCCA’s technical staff has driven competitors to search for other series with a more stable, equitable rules package. The technical missteps have created increasingly rising costs for competitors and have made it cost prohibitive for some teams to race. During these discussions we provided SCCA with all our data, and support for our request to run the gearbox with the modified ratios. Based on their decision to have split preparations and VTS specifications for the Viper, allowing our request would have been fairly simple with little or no effect on other teams. We told them that we had the gearbox and we were prepared to run it. Their ultimate decision was what it has been all season; not now, let’s wait and see. We do believe that the new management at SCCA Pro realizes their challenges, and we believe they are going to do everything in their power to bring World Challenge Racing back to where it should be.
Autohaus Motorsports made the decision to run our gearbox with the alternate gearing at Mid-Ohio. We notified the SCCA technical director , Shawn Passen, of our decision to do so PRIOR to the start of the race. We knew it was a no win situation, but we needed to prove that the adjustments we were asking for would not allow us to dominate the field, as the Corvettes and Porsches have been able to do all season, but simply give us a chance to compete. The gearbox did just that, and we posted a hard fought second place finish behind a car with 60 pounds of REWARDS weight where the Autohaus Viper had no REWARDS weight. Following the race, the team was disqualified for running the gearbox we told SCCA was in the car. Subsequently SCCA’s approval of this gearbox is pending.
When we made our decision we knew it had the potential for ending our season, but hoped that SCCA would finally make the right choice. With the disqualification, and a prohibitive rules package throughout the season, the possibility of achieving our goal of a championship season was over. We don’t expect to be given a win; we expect the series to balance the rules so that anyone who puts in the time, money and preparation as we and other Viper teams have done, has a chance to win. Today, that is not a reality.
We are focusing our efforts and resources on developing our program for next year. We will be exploring all our options, deciding which series has the most balanced, fair rules package, provides the most effective exposure for our sponsors and for building our business. We plan to continue our relationship with Tommy Archer and hope to add other talented drivers to our team.
Our hope is that World Challenge will remedy all of the issues that have plagued them over the past few years. We are confident that Bob Wildberger and the team he is building have the desire to achieve that. In the end, World Challenge racing has the potential to be an incredible series. We hope that SCCA Pro can write a competitive rules package that will showcase the strengths of the series. If they can accomplish this, Autohaus Motorsports will proudly return next season.
I would like to thank all of our fans and sponsors for their continued support.
Regards
Nathan McBride
Execuitive Director
Autohaus Motorsports
Fast Viper Dan
Enthusiast
Well done Sled!
I do hope SCCA gets the program working for all the teams.
I do hope SCCA gets the program working for all the teams.
Something is smelly in Denmark!
Geez, with all that nonsense I wouldn't blame any of the Viper teams to pick up and leave
... from a fan/TV viewer standpoint, it always did look like something must have been rigged to have Caddys? running out front ... but I've heard that Caddy is now gone for 2008 ... so maybe they can rig the rules to get some Buicks out front ... it's no wonder SPEED seems more interested in showing motorcycle racing these days
Last edited:
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
If the venue is targeted for multi-makes and one make becomes dominate then the venue needs to change the rules or risk losing competitors.
I get a little frustrated with the finger pointing and whining (of which I too am guilty). I'd like to see Make-specific classes. Vipers vs Vipers, Vettes vs Vettes, Porsche vs Porsche, etc.
JMO
I get a little frustrated with the finger pointing and whining (of which I too am guilty). I'd like to see Make-specific classes. Vipers vs Vipers, Vettes vs Vettes, Porsche vs Porsche, etc.
JMO
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
... from a fan/TV viewer standpoint, it always did look like something must have been rigged to have Caddys? running out front ... but I've heard that Caddy is now gone for 2008 ... so maybe they can rig the rules to get some Buicks out front ... it's no wonder SPEED seems more interested in showing motorcycle racing these days
Caddy really hurt the series IMO. Seeing that four-door pig out there with Vipers, Vettes and Porsches is like cutting a fart in a candy store.
