I originally started this as a reply to a post however I got into it and it became the first chapter of an upcoming novel...
I gave back my 00 steel gray RT10 16k kilometers (approx 9600 miles) because of a poorly built frame. after fighting in and out of court for over 3 years; my mechanic pointed out the reason for the numerous issues with the RT. I was shocked when I actually saw the poorly constructed frame anchoring this car. As per his advice I had the frame x-rayed 7 of the 11 welds tested showed gross perosity. Perosity indicates air pockets in the welds greatly reducing strength and adhesion. Visually most of the welds seemed as though they were made by an 10 year old.
I have tons of pictures. The radiologist who inspected the frame stated he sees better welding quality on a 200.00 bicycle. The dealer has stated on more than one occasion all vipers are built this way.
FYI the frame on a 00 RT10 is constucted of square tube 1/8 inch thick most sections are not larger than 2" by 4". Nothing wrong with that; if the engineering and construction is done right. However the frame strenght requires inter dependancy of all components meaning if one weld breaks the frame could disintergrate. Not a safe scenario considering the torque this vehicle is capable of. The mechanic pointed out the forward frame is being flexed together at the mounts. It appears to need some spacers installed at the mounts to hold the frame straight. the result of this flexing is under tourque the left frame section tends to straighten and the right flexes more shortening the wheel base and pulling the car to right. This at the same time causes both lower control arms to shift left causing instability in the steering as the control arms shift and return. The best kept secret at DC was the reason for the frame recalls it seems (coincidentally?) the recall gussets would reduce the control arm shift.
Food for thought; take a look at your frame before you take your next tour. I noticed the car pulling to the right, the doors worked fine on level ground however jammed when parked on a hill, The roof flew off a couple days after the dealer installed it and the softop and doors had major leaks around the seals, the rubber door seal wore a slit 8" long from the carpet rubbing against it when operating the door. If you want to know what to look for lincoln welding has a training course online which shows quite clearly what to look for to determine weld quality and causes of the poor weld quality.
Rather than fix this gross incompetence DC has decided instead to try and make the court case and consequeces if I loose more expensive than paying them a settlement and keeping quiet. In order to win I have to sue the dealer the leasing company and the manufacturer all of whom have advised me of the legal fees they will be seeking if they win. For me 20k in legal fees would get me at best 50k if I win. If I loose I owe 90k. Or I can pay 10k and settle.
At a pretrial hearing the presiding judge told them. Quote this person is exactly the reason lemon laws are written. Their respose was to make me a settlement offer if I pay them 10k they are willing to walk away from this.
My respose was if it's going to cost me 10k I'll pay it to my lawyer and take my chances. In either case they have the car and have stated their intention to resell it even after being shown the x-ray results.(buyer beware..)
My lawyer has indicated a class action suit could be a possibility here, as; if, as the dealer has stated "they are all like that" frame issues could be wide spread. I have an appointment to discuss this possibility with a law firm who specialise in class action cases. If anyone in Canada has noticed problems let me know ASAP.
The value of a Viper could drop substantially when this is brought out. Understandably the investment we all made in these cars limits what we want the world to percieve when they think about a Viper the frame recall issue started a "they have bad frames" rumor which noticable brought the resale prices down. It's not in anyones best interest to attack your own investment. however when you see the marketshare being grabbed up by the imports issues like this don't help `the Local market manufacturers credibility. Rather than do the right thing here, for whatever reason DC has decided to attack it's own customer. Throughout this last few years I have been accused of every thing short of bank robbery . my credit rating has been reduced from a near perfect to a beacon score fitting a homeless person. Why becuse I wanted what I paid for and never received. Call me stuborn or whatever but I think something wrong here puts it mildly.
don't expect the moderators will allow this post to remain in viewing distance for long however your comments positive or negative are all welcome.
Best regards; rambling... <font color="black"> </font>
I gave back my 00 steel gray RT10 16k kilometers (approx 9600 miles) because of a poorly built frame. after fighting in and out of court for over 3 years; my mechanic pointed out the reason for the numerous issues with the RT. I was shocked when I actually saw the poorly constructed frame anchoring this car. As per his advice I had the frame x-rayed 7 of the 11 welds tested showed gross perosity. Perosity indicates air pockets in the welds greatly reducing strength and adhesion. Visually most of the welds seemed as though they were made by an 10 year old.
I have tons of pictures. The radiologist who inspected the frame stated he sees better welding quality on a 200.00 bicycle. The dealer has stated on more than one occasion all vipers are built this way.
FYI the frame on a 00 RT10 is constucted of square tube 1/8 inch thick most sections are not larger than 2" by 4". Nothing wrong with that; if the engineering and construction is done right. However the frame strenght requires inter dependancy of all components meaning if one weld breaks the frame could disintergrate. Not a safe scenario considering the torque this vehicle is capable of. The mechanic pointed out the forward frame is being flexed together at the mounts. It appears to need some spacers installed at the mounts to hold the frame straight. the result of this flexing is under tourque the left frame section tends to straighten and the right flexes more shortening the wheel base and pulling the car to right. This at the same time causes both lower control arms to shift left causing instability in the steering as the control arms shift and return. The best kept secret at DC was the reason for the frame recalls it seems (coincidentally?) the recall gussets would reduce the control arm shift.
Food for thought; take a look at your frame before you take your next tour. I noticed the car pulling to the right, the doors worked fine on level ground however jammed when parked on a hill, The roof flew off a couple days after the dealer installed it and the softop and doors had major leaks around the seals, the rubber door seal wore a slit 8" long from the carpet rubbing against it when operating the door. If you want to know what to look for lincoln welding has a training course online which shows quite clearly what to look for to determine weld quality and causes of the poor weld quality.
Rather than fix this gross incompetence DC has decided instead to try and make the court case and consequeces if I loose more expensive than paying them a settlement and keeping quiet. In order to win I have to sue the dealer the leasing company and the manufacturer all of whom have advised me of the legal fees they will be seeking if they win. For me 20k in legal fees would get me at best 50k if I win. If I loose I owe 90k. Or I can pay 10k and settle.
At a pretrial hearing the presiding judge told them. Quote this person is exactly the reason lemon laws are written. Their respose was to make me a settlement offer if I pay them 10k they are willing to walk away from this.
My respose was if it's going to cost me 10k I'll pay it to my lawyer and take my chances. In either case they have the car and have stated their intention to resell it even after being shown the x-ray results.(buyer beware..)
My lawyer has indicated a class action suit could be a possibility here, as; if, as the dealer has stated "they are all like that" frame issues could be wide spread. I have an appointment to discuss this possibility with a law firm who specialise in class action cases. If anyone in Canada has noticed problems let me know ASAP.
The value of a Viper could drop substantially when this is brought out. Understandably the investment we all made in these cars limits what we want the world to percieve when they think about a Viper the frame recall issue started a "they have bad frames" rumor which noticable brought the resale prices down. It's not in anyones best interest to attack your own investment. however when you see the marketshare being grabbed up by the imports issues like this don't help `the Local market manufacturers credibility. Rather than do the right thing here, for whatever reason DC has decided to attack it's own customer. Throughout this last few years I have been accused of every thing short of bank robbery . my credit rating has been reduced from a near perfect to a beacon score fitting a homeless person. Why becuse I wanted what I paid for and never received. Call me stuborn or whatever but I think something wrong here puts it mildly.
don't expect the moderators will allow this post to remain in viewing distance for long however your comments positive or negative are all welcome.
Best regards; rambling... <font color="black"> </font>