Viper Frame a mess

[Kevin]

I originally started this as a reply to a post however I got into it and it became the first chapter of an upcoming novel...

I gave back my 00 steel gray RT10 16k kilometers (approx 9600 miles) because of a poorly built frame. after fighting in and out of court for over 3 years; my mechanic pointed out the reason for the numerous issues with the RT. I was shocked when I actually saw the poorly constructed frame anchoring this car. As per his advice I had the frame x-rayed 7 of the 11 welds tested showed gross perosity. Perosity indicates air pockets in the welds greatly reducing strength and adhesion. Visually most of the welds seemed as though they were made by an 10 year old.
I have tons of pictures. The radiologist who inspected the frame stated he sees better welding quality on a 200.00 bicycle. The dealer has stated on more than one occasion all vipers are built this way.
FYI the frame on a 00 RT10 is constucted of square tube 1/8 inch thick most sections are not larger than 2" by 4". Nothing wrong with that; if the engineering and construction is done right. However the frame strenght requires inter dependancy of all components meaning if one weld breaks the frame could disintergrate. Not a safe scenario considering the torque this vehicle is capable of. The mechanic pointed out the forward frame is being flexed together at the mounts. It appears to need some spacers installed at the mounts to hold the frame straight. the result of this flexing is under tourque the left frame section tends to straighten and the right flexes more shortening the wheel base and pulling the car to right. This at the same time causes both lower control arms to shift left causing instability in the steering as the control arms shift and return. The best kept secret at DC was the reason for the frame recalls it seems (coincidentally?) the recall gussets would reduce the control arm shift.
Food for thought; take a look at your frame before you take your next tour. I noticed the car pulling to the right, the doors worked fine on level ground however jammed when parked on a hill, The roof flew off a couple days after the dealer installed it and the softop and doors had major leaks around the seals, the rubber door seal wore a slit 8" long from the carpet rubbing against it when operating the door. If you want to know what to look for lincoln welding has a training course online which shows quite clearly what to look for to determine weld quality and causes of the poor weld quality.
Rather than fix this gross incompetence DC has decided instead to try and make the court case and consequeces if I loose more expensive than paying them a settlement and keeping quiet. In order to win I have to sue the dealer the leasing company and the manufacturer all of whom have advised me of the legal fees they will be seeking if they win. For me 20k in legal fees would get me at best 50k if I win. If I loose I owe 90k. Or I can pay 10k and settle.
At a pretrial hearing the presiding judge told them. Quote this person is exactly the reason lemon laws are written. Their respose was to make me a settlement offer if I pay them 10k they are willing to walk away from this.
My respose was if it's going to cost me 10k I'll pay it to my lawyer and take my chances. In either case they have the car and have stated their intention to resell it even after being shown the x-ray results.(buyer beware..)
My lawyer has indicated a class action suit could be a possibility here, as; if, as the dealer has stated "they are all like that" frame issues could be wide spread. I have an appointment to discuss this possibility with a law firm who specialise in class action cases. If anyone in Canada has noticed problems let me know ASAP.
The value of a Viper could drop substantially when this is brought out. Understandably the investment we all made in these cars limits what we want the world to percieve when they think about a Viper the frame recall issue started a "they have bad frames" rumor which noticable brought the resale prices down. It's not in anyones best interest to attack your own investment. however when you see the marketshare being grabbed up by the imports issues like this don't help `the Local market manufacturers credibility. Rather than do the right thing here, for whatever reason DC has decided to attack it's own customer. Throughout this last few years I have been accused of every thing short of bank robbery . my credit rating has been reduced from a near perfect to a beacon score fitting a homeless person. Why becuse I wanted what I paid for and never received. Call me stuborn or whatever but I think something wrong here puts it mildly.
don't expect the moderators will allow this post to remain in viewing distance for long however your comments positive or negative are all welcome.
Best regards; rambling... <font color="black"> </font>

 

[David]

The welds on the viper have a characteristic sputtered appearance -- as the steel is galvanized. Weld porosity is an issue for pipes containing pressure, but I'm not sure that it's a problem for viper frame members. The weld strength need only be commensurate to the material and structure being welded. If the welds meets design load strength -- it's good enough. Keep in mind that this frame was crash tested and with initial production cars now over 10 years old there isn't a lot of talk about frame failures from road use. Track use does impose much higher loadings. Wheel bearings, for instance, should be replaced every 3000 track miles. Brake pads might last a few days. Under these circumstances, reinforcement of some frame structures may seem prudent. But, most cars are not subjected to track use. I see no reason for nuclear grade TIG welds on car frame members other than for cosmetics.

 

[JDR]

Posting the x-ray pics would be cool... But, I completely agree with David (as I also have some TIG and other welding training).

...and I feel for you, it sounds like things just keep going down-hill.

Having sued FOUR parties myself for a automobile related incident, you need to show direct responsibility, or you can get in real trouble for filing frivolous claims. (BTW, I settled out of court in a pre-trial hearing for twice the value of the car, and I got to keep the car.)

For example, what did the leasing company have to do with the manufacture of the car? Sure, you don't want to keep making payments to them when you're not happy with the car, but a lawyer with any skill would have NEVER named them in a lawsuit, and would have INSISTED you keep your payments current.

As for the Dealer saying "on more than one occasion", that "they (Viper Frames) are all built this way"... That has about as much weight as my 13 year old spouting off to friends. (Opinions are like a__holes, everyone has one.) I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but no court would EVER take his word as testimony towards the quality of a car's manufacture. To say that all Viper's frames are welded with the quality of a ten year old, is probably premature.

As for Dodge...
If your doors won't open on a hill, and your frame is unduly flexing during STREET driving, and they won't fix it... YOU WOULD HAVE VALID COMPLAINTS, and should be able to justly go after them to the full extent of the law.

As for the car...
Have none of the welds have actually broken? Trying to prove undue frame flexibility is caused by low quality welds may not be possible because it's probably not true. You may have some "self-proclaimed structural engineer" pointing you in the wrong direction. ...and on your day in court, when the defendants have reliable "real" structural/welding engineers state that the quality of the weld primarily determines adhesion, not flex; and that flex actually is determined by the steal's hardness, length, thickness, and cross-member structure, x-rays will get you nowhere (unless you have broken frame welds).

Being Dodge claims a "Static torsional rating of" 7,600 lb-ft (GTS), and 6,400 lb-ft (RT/10), I'd suggest having your lawyer ask Dodge how they perform that test, and perform a "non-destructive" test (if possible), to see if it is "in spec" or not.

Does ANYONE have an idea (short of Dodge leaving out some steal), how parking on a hill could cause Kevin's car to flex so bad as to jam the doors? Or not drive straight under acceleration?

Best wishes on getting back in to a "good" Viper.

 

[carguy07]

This has to be a joke, right? This car has the stiffest frame of ANY car I have ever owned or seen. If it ***** it is still many times better than Corvettes, Mustangs, F-Bodys etc. These cars all put out decent torque and no one crys that they are unsafe. Those cars flex like crazy. Had a buddy in high school who got his finger pinched between the t-top and the roof on a full throttle run in a Mustang. I had the metal on my Trans-am actually tear at the roof line from hole shots. My point is why ***** about one of the stiffest frames ever??

 

[JDR]

I had the metal on my Trans-am actually tear at the roof line from hole shots.

I ran with 400hp in my Trans-Am (about 20 years ago), and discovered I was bending the frame when I noticed the front end camber could not be adjusted any further! I had a frame shop take the "torque twist" out, and then added about 40 lbs of steal to the front frame. Could have been worse... I had a friend with 600+ hp Trans-Am that broke his windsheild and bent the uni-body (they had "3/4" frames back in the 70's).

 

[Kevin]

Perosity is the main indicator of weld quality. Preasure can be exerted by load in form of load bearing strength as well as preasure as you said within a pipe. Consequences of failure in either case can still be just as catastophic. As an engineer by trade, I am sure you can appreciate what I am saying. The characteristic sputtered appearance is a good indication the welder lacks experience welding light metals welding galvanized metals is no excuse for the spattering. My frame goes beyond spattering; holes were blown through and covered some welds were little more than tack welds where loads would be extreme. In most welds little or no *********** was evident.
The x-ray tech who checked the frame does automotive testing on a daily basis for manufacturers. When he tells me the welds are not up to spec I have to believe him. I would like to know where to obtain crash test results of this car however as is the rest of the design it likely falls under company secrets. No one said the frame had to meet nuclear standards but the confidence level shure would increase if the frame at least was as well built as that of a K-Car this frame apparently was not.
As for racing I would think the race car with modifications would have loads well beyond the street design car and as such would require reinforcement. Considering hours of use in a car designed for the street the frame would endure a lot more; 10 times as many miles on average changes in wether and road conditions metal fatigue and corrosion depreciating factors far exceeding those of a car strictly driven on the track. On a track we know what to expect and compensate to reduce the chance of injury. The average driver who buys a Viper does not wear a crash helment or 3 point harneses. We have to be confident the manufacturer took this into consideration when he built the car.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

This has to be a joke, right? This car has the stiffest frame of ANY car I have ever owned or seen. If it ***** it is still many times better than Corvettes, Mustangs, F-Bodys etc. These cars all put out decent torque and no one crys that they are unsafe. Those cars flex like crazy. Had a buddy in high school who got his finger pinched between the t-top and the roof on a full throttle run in a Mustang. I had the metal on my Trans-am actually tear at the roof line from hole shots. My point is why ***** about one of the stiffest frames ever??

If the welds are fu%ked I'd be complaining too.

 

[Bolax]

Something's not right here. I have a 97 GTS with 20k miles that started its life as a track car at the Justin Bell driving school. My frame is just fine. In fact it's stiffer than any car I've owned. Even when washing the car you might see one or two drops sneak in around the window. Only my wife's new Jeep Liberty can top that.

Editorial: --&gt; If anyone should be concerned it's Ford. Highly upgraded Mustangs from something like 79-93 (you know, the little square ones) have a reputation for spitting the driver into the rear seat when the seat mounts rip out. Aftermarket companies actually make an aluminum reinforcement plate that goes under the seat to spread the load. Oh, and their roofs will buckle to the point of breaking the welds that hold the quarter panel on the driver's side. "Built Ford Tough"?....:ROFL:

I'll take my chances in the Viper.

 

[C O D Y]

The factory made changes in '01 and '02 to the frame for a reason, but I just don't know enough to judge.

 

[Kevin]

For example, what did the leasing company have to do with the manufacture of the car? Sure, you don't want to keep making payments to them when you're not happy with the car, but a lawyer with any skill would have NEVER named them in a lawsuit, and would have INSISTED you keep your payments current.

I am suing for recision of the lease agreement. Which is why all 3 companies are involved.
The car has had problems since the first week I had it. It's been at the dealer numerous times. The only attempt they made at resolving the problem was they rolled the doors inward. making them 3/4 " inside the body lines at the top. I told them this was not acceptable for the money I paid for this car. I was told that they could put them back in place but they would have to void my waranty as far as door hinges and lock mechanism. I was further told becouse this is a low production vehicle many of the doors don't fit right and you have to accept the car as it is.

 

[carguy07]

"If the welds are fu%ked I'd be complaining too."

Me too, but all I have heard so far is chassis "flex". A weld is fu%ked when it breaks. If none of the welds are broken it sounds like your "worried" that there is a problem. Well, lets go to the track and see how many guys that run the piss out of em are worried or have ever had problems.

Not saying that Kevin did not get a lemon and needs help, but it is kind of sweeping to say that most cars are problematic. Weak welds are scary as hell because they can fail. If they never fail then what are you telling us?

 

[ViperRay]

How do the 998 and 999 recalls play into this?

 

[ViperRay]

I know these recalls don't involve the 2000 and up models but makes you wonder.

 

[Kevin]

The 2000 did have the recall for the steering assay Gussets were installed to correct a problem described as steering boxes coming loose on race track driven cars?

 

[David]

Welding galvanized steel results in splattering. Doesn't matter if you use nitrogen, argon or sulpher hexafluoride as the inert gas. The porosity of the weld is only one metric of weld quality. In the case of bulk welding of mild steel, it's more the *********** and area of the weld that counts. Bicycle frames are very different structures compared to auto frames. Stresses in a bicycle are very highly concentrated around the bottom bracket and head tube joints. This is why most ferrous metal bicycle racing frames are still joined using silver solder and lugs -- not by welding. It comes down to this: As long as a joint meets the design load specifications it's good enough. The welding on the viper frame may look bad to the untrained eye -- both visually and by Xray. However, you'll be very hard pressed to prove that the weld doesn't meet the loading as specified by Chrysler. Inasmuch as this information has never been made public, an Xray tech would have no basis for judgement. Chrysler performed both FEA modeling and crash testing of these frames. Implicating them, in my opinion, would be inviting some fairly costly legal retribution.

I'm not saying that you don't have a case, and I'm sorry that your car has been a lemon. But, make very VERY sure that your lawyer is looking after YOUR best interests and not his/her billable hours... You're attacking the "flagship" of Dodge -- and they're sure to be very sensitive to that.

 

[carguy07]

"The 2000 did have the recall for the steering assay Gussets were installed to correct a problem described as steering boxes coming loose on race track driven cars?"

Yep, but I never hear of anyone that came off the track and said that the chassis was flexing so bad that they thought the top would fly off or later that night on the way home.

Not trying to take jabs at you, but it sounds like what you are experiencing is an isolated incident. You need help fighting to get YOUR car bought back or fixed. What you are describing blows my mind compared to what I see when I do an oil change or go up a twisty incline.

Bottom line, did any of your welds break? If not where is the flex coming from compared to the other 99% out there. If your welds look bad but feel good the problem is obviously somewhere else. Did you buy this car new?

 

[Mopar Steve]

I am on my second Viper. I slammed into a curb and whacked the snot out of the front frame rails on a diagonal. Not one weld broke. I twisted the car underneath pretty good and walked away not a scratch. The insurance company totaled the car, and I was able to buy another. I don't believe there is a recall situation/class action suit because all frames are bad, mine seems fine. Good luck.

 

[Kevin]

Let me understand what your saying here you whacked a curb and your frame didn't break; ergo, all viper frames are good?
What I said was if my frame was poorly built I assume more were built like it.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Kevin I think you need to clarify things some. Have any welds broken? That is an absolute requirement if you are going to claim poor welds are making your frame weak or flexible. Your statement about if one weld breaks then the whole thing is going to domino sounds like uneducated armchair engineering.

It is also very difficult to understand how your supposed frame flex could cause your roof to come off. More likely it was installed incorrectly (you indicated the dealer installed it - probably the first time they ever installed one).

I suggest you compare your concerns with another Viper and determine future action based on that. If it has a similar level of flex, and the other car has no complaints, then I would call it quits. If yours is indeed different then you would need to find out why. Either way get rid of the mechanic or whomever is giving you the advice that frame welds affect the frame rigidity. Welds are brittle and will break long before they allow a significant amount of deflection. ALso, mixing up strength and rigidity are a no no.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

What dealer are you dealing with Kevin? You in the GTA?

 

[Mopar Steve]

Let me understand what your saying here you whacked a curb and your frame didn't break; ergo, all viper frames are good?
What I said was if my frame was poorly built I assume more were built like it.

Not at all. While your frame may or may not have issues, that doesn't mean all frames have issues. I don't doubt for a minute that just like there are defects in motors, body work, transmissions, etc. there must also be defects in frame work (998.. recall). You said that you were told all the frames are like this and you mentioned there should be a class action suit. I am simply saying that the welds on my first one specifically, and arguably most others are probably fine.

 

[Kevin]

I didn't say all Viper frames are defective. The service manager at the dealership said "they are all like this".
You can agree with his statement or not, I personally took it as another lie.
Is their a general expectation of implied quality when sold as a "Flagship vehicle"? I personally expected better quality and a warranty which I was promised should have repaired or replaced the defective vehicle. I was led to believe this waranty was included as part of what I paid for. The problems with this car preceeded the recall however I was still not notified of the recall. Until the end of June 2003 A full year after the recall.
If it were proven in court the frame under this one car or any number of Vipers are substandard.
Wouldn't it follow that the real resale value of all vipers by reputation will decrease. a class action could ask the court to compensate all owners for that depreciated value.
According to the private emails I have recieved today this problem is not unique to my vehicle what is consistent is the way DC handles these problems.

 

[carguy07]

Define "substandard" if the product is never shown to fail even under track conditions? Don't mention the recall, I just want to hear about welds that have broke. So far you have not shown that even one weld has ever broken on any Viper ever made. I'm sure that this is not the case, but if you are out to prove that the welds are "substandard" we should at least be talking about one or two that failed, right?

 

[TOOOFST]

Kevin,I'm a union shop many of my contracts require welding/fabrication by AISC/AWS standards.That's American Institute of Steel Construction/American Welding Society.
You can win your case easily if the welder/fabricators contract requires AISC/AWS standards or steel inspection report.Otherwise your SOL,or similar odds to my chi-town bears winning superbowl.

 

[Kevin]

You can win your case easily if the welder/fabricators contract requires AISC/AWS standards or steel inspection report.Otherwise your SOL,or similar odds to my chi-town bears winning superbowl.

The only problem there would be getting DC to provive the manifacturers spec. Not easy to obtain national security issue or something along those lines.
My case is based on wether I recieved the product I contracted for.
A misunderstanding I have consistently seen in this thread is what I have said is; The quality of the welds is cumulative with the other problems noted. I believe as previously stated the flexing and lack of rigidity is due to the visible bowing of the forward sections of the frame Attached to these sections are the lower control arms and the motor mounts. The motor mounts are visibly pulling the frame sections inward. In addition measurements across door openings on raising and lowering the front of the vehicle indicated somehow the bottom of the front door posts are floating the welds are not accessable at the bottom of the posts so either the welds have broken or were never attached without damaging the car I know of no way to access the bottom of the posts.
If the car doors operate properly on level ground and jam on a slight incline it doesn't require an engineer to understand something is bending. Tell me would you call that a problem with strength or rigidity? as for the roof coming off if the opening the roof covers due to flexing is reduced the roof is jammed and the non locking hooks at the back certainly could slip off the pins allowing the roof to come off. No mystery there either just common sense.

By reading some of these posts it seems I have struck a nerve here, sorry if anyone is offended by what I have written. I think I will drop it here. leave the deciding to the membership. I'm going shopping for a Hummer.
Best regards; Kevin

 

[Vic]

Kevin, I think you might have "talked" yourself into this lawsuit. You have had some warranty issues, sure. If they don't resolve them, then the lemon law (thats not just a CA law, is it?) comes in to rescue you. You have to push the warranty issues until they either fix it or give up and buy it back.

But suing over bad welds would only be reasonable if the car caused you some bodily harm by falling apart while rolling down the road, and then you sue for road rash because of the faulty welds.

If the welds haven't popped open, then all you have is warranty issues for whatever reason.

It sounds like a contingency lawer is licking his chops in anticipation, hoping Chrysler would rather settle, than to get bad press over porus welds. But you are the test dummy, and if they don't cave in, your contingency lawer will run away, and you will be left holding the proverbial bag.

Whatever happens, I wish you the best.

 

[Kevin]

I wish it were that cut and dried. If I bought this car in CA the problem would have been resolved 3 years ago. In Ontario we used to have safety lanes were if you suspected a safety issue you could get it checked. Unfortunately recent Government cutbacks have illiminated the safety lanes as an option. Consumer and corporate affairs will deal with all products except autos. At the federal level very quietly and without any public notice I am aware of. The acceptance of self regulation in the auto industry is the new reality. Companies become ISO certified and all of a sudden all information regarding the manufacture of their product is a trade secret. I contacted the federal department of transport and was chastised for attempting to have a safety issue investigated remember the gen 3 seatbelt issue. It is my understanding a part of the ISO certification standard a conflict resolution proceedure must be established. the resolution proceedures as I can tell are also trade secrets go figure. I suspect the entire ISO process was devised by the Masons the only organisation outside of federal Government with such a degree of secrecy. I stated in a letter to the ISO that a company seperated from the end user by a dealer network with no such certification makes suspect the validity of the entire process. ISO standardisation and its stated pupose to promote consumer confidence is now a lame duck. The registrar UL, although I have made numerous attempts to contact them will not respond to my inquiries.
I have every confidence in my Lawyer and have no doubts as to his integrity. however as you see we have few options other than judicial to proceed.
Mayby we have the foundation for a new business here I could sell cars here originating from dealers in CA we could compete with the local dealers offering real waranties. Something wich arguable dont really exist here. hmmm

 

[Janni]

Kevin,
Sorry you are dealing with troubling issues on your car. However, the Gen II viper frame has been used without major incident for the entire production run. Yours is the first issue I have seen (and I am not sure it is an issue, yet.) The frame recalls were for steering rack mounts and rear differential mounts. The steering rack issue was seen almost entirely on track driven cars with race tires - something the manufacturer didn't originally design the car around. Later frames were upgraded with a design change. Same thing on the rear diff mounting issue - and that was mostly driven by drag racing - again, not a normal benchmark for development, but again, design changes were made to accomodate real world scenarios on how folks were using their cars.

If a frame problem was endemic, yours would not be the first car to have problems. After seeing cars with extensive track miles on them, I can say that every car I have seen is holding up remarkably well - this includes Viper Days race cars and SCCA T1 cars. I will even venture a guess that I've been able to inspect more cars than your dealer - and certainly seen more cars that have had use that would stress a car's frame.

In the 6 years I have been involved with Vipers, this is the only complaint I have seen. This doesn't make it any better for you, I know, but certainly talk of a "class action suit" and cars devaluing as you make sweeping statements about build quality is not warranted.

Have any welds actually broken? If your car is flexing THAT much, something has to be broken. The car is not that hard to take apart and put back together. I suggest that the car be disassembled enough to actually find a broken weld and then go from there. Otherwise, you can't claim poor welds -and I am not even sure one broken weld shows a systemic quality control issue.

The viper frame is one on the stiffest around, and very well engineered to provide the kind of torsional rigidity a performance car needs. Most folks here have jacked up a corner of the car and were amazed at how level and straight the car came up - WITHOUT twist or flex.

Again, sorry for your troubles - and it seems a lot of them are based on the lack of any dispute resolution in Canada. I nthe US lemon law wouldn't help either though, as the car has to be under 18 months old in most states.

Please let us know what you find.

 

[Sonny 00 GTS ACR]

Sorry about your problems Kevin. Dealing with corporate giants is almost as frustrating or annoying as lawyers and lawsuits.

This is an interesting post and has seen some interesting responses. But as Janni points out, If this was as widespread a problem as you are suggesting, more people would already be aware of it.

With road racing, bigger sway bars, 1000 to 1500 lb springs, and 335 racing slicks on all four wheels together with more than 2000 track miles per year are a pretty good test. The frame recalls have addressed the issues that surfaced over the years and I haven't experienced or heard of anyone having other problems.

The Dodge Viper is a relatively inexpensive hand-built car. Apparently, as you have experienced, that can be either a blessing or a curse. I don't see however, that this could be considered more than an isolated incident.

Good luck with your problem.

 

[Kevin]

Hello Janni;
In response to your post. First without any intended insult to you as I believe you whole heardedly believe everything you have stated. However at first reading you come across as a salesman trying to sell me something.
Life is as you percieve it and as a business owner I have to base my decisions on the facts. The more information I can obtain prior to making a major decision the more confident I can be in making my choices.
Your perception of DC is probably quite different than mine based on the information available to each of us. What you state publicy in my perception could be biased based on your position. Again let me stress your credibility or moral values are not being attacked here just stating my perception of the situation. please evaluate the following facts as I percieve them and tell me if I am mistaken. If I don't have the facts correct it may change my perception of the situation.

1) What I Leased was the numero uno, Flagship, top of the line Best car DC sold as of March 2000
2) What I paid for the car reflected the fact this car had superior engineering and manufacturing quality to anything DC manufactued at that time.
3)The purchase of this vehicle included a Warranty which guaranteed me that if a problem was found with the car it would be corrected by the manufacturer through his agent the dealer and if it could not be repaired the vehicle would be returned or replaced.
4)The warranty provides that the dealer is a representative of DC and responsible for investigating and correcting defects with the vehicle.
5)I have the right to cancel a contract based on non compliace to the contract by the other party.
6)If i took my car on a race track I would void any warranty and claim against the manufacturer based on a decision I had made For consequential damages or personal injury.
7) Chrysler is not responsible for safety or design flaws of cars used in racing.
8)The car I bought was for normal use on the street and according to the manufacturer should be safe to use as such.
Any design changes DC makes to a street driven car, would be to improve a street driven car, to lessen potential liability resulting from design flaws. or to correct percieved problems with a street driven car.
9)Posts by welders in this forum state welding of the frame of this car cannot be done without spattering however some of the welds on this car are smooth and others show spattering even on oposite ends of the same section of metal.
10)If an accident happen and a weld is found to be broken after the accident perception would be the accident caused the weld to break not the break caused the accident.
11)If a car doors open and close normally on level ground and jam or when closing bounce back at you. Either the frame or body is bending compressing the door opening.
11)A car bending in the middle is not normal
12)A car bending in the middle is not a good feature.
13)Numerous inspections by A dealer and two inspections by Chrysler engineers should find the problem. I should be able to get a statement of their findings, after being without the car on one occasion for a 5 day period.
14)I should under my waranty be able to have the problem corrected.
15)When writing a letter To DC directly describing the problem I should expect more than a 2 sentence respose informing me DC is willing to honor their waranty obligations however they see no manufacturing problem.
16)If I can see clearly a messy inconsistent welding job and I have the welds inspected by 3 mechanics and xray results all telling me there is a problem. No information is available to me regarding the design or welding spec, Weighing this against a Viper enthusiasts opinion I honestly don't fell comfortable driving this vehicle.
17)I would not feel comfortable allowing others to drive or be driven in this vehicle
18)If a dealer installs a roof and it flies off the car something in the design of that roof is wrong.
19) If the dealer cannot install a roof properly The manufacturer would not expect all of it's customers to be able to do it properly.
20)Better design of roof fasteners would remove all chance of error. I would expect for the quality of vehicle purchased only the best designs would be utilized.
21)Watching a hard top roof frisbee a couple of feet over the car behind you is pretty scarry. I believe this to be a safety issue.
22)DC is as they wish us to believe a responsible company
23)It would be fair to assume one could have issues as previously described corrected without having to utiize the courts.
24)The day I took delivery of this vehicle I was extremely happy, now I am not, why?

The way you percieve the answers could indeed change your perception of the Viper And DC

Best Regards; Kevin