The car was a production car but has been used by SRT for marketing purposes. I heard that just before it came down here it had been used by a stunt driver for some sort of video production. It is thought that the clutch issue may have started there and, over a day of hot lapping and trying out various launch techniques, it may have been a bit stressed. Brooks tried many different launch approaches. Some were visibly harder on the car than others. I would guess that he made at least 15 runs and maybe more. I left before the day was over. In the AM, the runs were all back to back. The car held up well. I do not think that there is one VCA member that will, or would, ever put his or her car through what that car went through on Sunday. Kudos to SRT for letting Brooks experiment.
Viper racing at PBIR YESTERDAY
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ViperSmith
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I think this car could run 9's and people would still complain.
Policy Limits
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LOL
Its a street legal race car!!! Just enjoy it!!!!
This is meant to be fun, afterall
If you're a suspension guy, get a Lotus! If you like eye candy, buy Ferrari! If you want a performance daily, get a Porsche 911!!
Do whatever u wish but let a snake bitten enthusiast enjoy his choice too!
Its a street legal race car!!! Just enjoy it!!!!
This is meant to be fun, afterall
If you're a suspension guy, get a Lotus! If you like eye candy, buy Ferrari! If you want a performance daily, get a Porsche 911!!
Do whatever u wish but let a snake bitten enthusiast enjoy his choice too!
SnakeBitten
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Well said. I can't argue any of those points with a serious face. I definitely prefer the Viper to be better at the road course than the drags everytime which it is as we all know against those cars mentioned. Despite the early outcome with Brooks I still think it will hit the 10's @ 133mph at least when everything is sorted out[wheel & tire, clutch, seat time etc]
mnc2886
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If the Gen IV hit 10's, then Gen V will as well. 10.7 with the right driver I think...
FLL-B/W-GTS
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The Gen 5 that ran on Sunday was outstanding. I was amazed that they were running one run after another and the car did not break. Then Brooks got a hold of it and did some serious burn outs to heat the tries and ran a 11.1. in the Viper. It was hot by then in the afternoon.....When more Gen 5s get to owners, their will be many that will run in the 10s for sure bone stock...
I Bin Therbefor
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IMO, Ralph is the world's greatest expert at making lemonade out of lemons. The lemon here being a tight budget. That development car was provided to the Viper Nation to enable some serious drag strip testing at very little cost. Even testing against some real competition makes. Team Viper now has sufficient information to take whatever action they see appropriate, all the way from a drag strip package to some tweeks to the launch electronics. The Viper Nation should feel honored to be an intimate and integral part of the development process. 
Viper Grenade
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MPH is still low. I've hot lapped Vipers many times. The hardest being the short drive back to the starting line. MPH didn't change much. Best trap was a 132mph Worst was a 129mph on a missed shift. This was on a 96 GTS with H/C.
What it seems people keep forgetting is the pretty respectable 60' time of 1.7x. The ET is not going to improve by much more as the 60' is going to be hard to improve with the long first gear in the car. It maybe has another .15 at best so I dont see this car getting into 10.8s anytime soon. Great driver or not. There were two people driving this car and both very good drivers along with some power shifting. There were plenty of runs in the afternoon where the car sat long enough to cool down and the ET or more disappointing the MPH did not pick up.
The car barely has 2000 miles on it and the clutch started the day in basically new condition. By mid day the clutch was beginning to tire, at the end of the day it was pretty much smoked and ready for replacement. This was from mouths of one of the drivers.
I understand its not a "drag race car" but neither are any of these cars. Not GM, SRT, or the high end exotics market the car for drag racing they market them for road racing. I have owned two vipers and have spent more time on a drag strip than on road courses but enjoy both as have many viper owners. With that being said its important to many to have a car that performs well in the 1/4 mile as that has been the measure of performance for decades and will continue to be. Like it or not. That is real world with regular drivers, not professional race car drivers at the RING.
Oh well it is what it is, and unfortunately we are behind the 8 ball with an outgoing ZR1 model. I just don't know how you take a 3 year break with a car and come back with a "slightly improved" car.
Yes im disappointed as many of us are. Im a car guy not a loyalist to one brand or model. So flame away if you are blinded by the truth. If your a true car guy you understand my disappointment. If your just a Viper loyalist and THINK its the best car in the world no matter what then I know you will disagree.
Remember the first step to fixing something it to admit there is a problem. So SRT lets admit you missed the target change some gear ratios calibrate the ECM a bit more aggressive with a slightly more aggressive cam.
The car barely has 2000 miles on it and the clutch started the day in basically new condition. By mid day the clutch was beginning to tire, at the end of the day it was pretty much smoked and ready for replacement. This was from mouths of one of the drivers.
I understand its not a "drag race car" but neither are any of these cars. Not GM, SRT, or the high end exotics market the car for drag racing they market them for road racing. I have owned two vipers and have spent more time on a drag strip than on road courses but enjoy both as have many viper owners. With that being said its important to many to have a car that performs well in the 1/4 mile as that has been the measure of performance for decades and will continue to be. Like it or not. That is real world with regular drivers, not professional race car drivers at the RING.
Oh well it is what it is, and unfortunately we are behind the 8 ball with an outgoing ZR1 model. I just don't know how you take a 3 year break with a car and come back with a "slightly improved" car.
Yes im disappointed as many of us are. Im a car guy not a loyalist to one brand or model. So flame away if you are blinded by the truth. If your a true car guy you understand my disappointment. If your just a Viper loyalist and THINK its the best car in the world no matter what then I know you will disagree.
Remember the first step to fixing something it to admit there is a problem. So SRT lets admit you missed the target change some gear ratios calibrate the ECM a bit more aggressive with a slightly more aggressive cam.
VENOM V
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Oh no, the sky is falling. That's it, I'm canceling my order.
Seriously, you do raise some valid points. Yes, MPH is low, but this isn't the only test. You are overreacting. Not the best day at the track, so what. There will be others. A little too much doom and gloom.
Motor Trend ran an 11.5 at 128.7 in a GTS and an 11.4 at 128.6 in an SRT. Road and Track ran an 11.7 at 128. So there are some higher MPH's for you. Yes I know, times could've been faster. Another mag rag ran an 11.2, I don't recall who.
Straight line times are not the primary measure of performance for a super car. Muscle cars yes, super cars no. Look at who owns the production car record at Laguna Seca.
Seriously, you do raise some valid points. Yes, MPH is low, but this isn't the only test. You are overreacting. Not the best day at the track, so what. There will be others. A little too much doom and gloom.
Motor Trend ran an 11.5 at 128.7 in a GTS and an 11.4 at 128.6 in an SRT. Road and Track ran an 11.7 at 128. So there are some higher MPH's for you. Yes I know, times could've been faster. Another mag rag ran an 11.2, I don't recall who.
Straight line times are not the primary measure of performance for a super car. Muscle cars yes, super cars no. Look at who owns the production car record at Laguna Seca.
SnakeBitten
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Hmmmm. The plot thickens. Anyway I agree with you on the mark missing in terms of the straight line speed aspect but you have to say they did hit it "barely" with the handling even with inferior rubber. It is faster than most of the current under 500k cars around Laguna Seca and I suspect maybe even VIR if they ever test there. I think they really need to focus on the performance aspects in all catagories for the next few years as they seriously nailed the interior.
I agree, the interior is pretty damn nice compared to the past cars without a doubt. My point enitrely is I hope that SRT does pick up in the performance area across the board. Hell we (and I use that term loosely) were all hoping for 700 HP and we were all hoping the car would easily beat the ZR1 in a straight line as well as the twists.
I just think to come out so soft after being away for 3 years SRT just didn't make a big enough statement to GM or the rest of the world. I guess that's what happens when you are the little brother to an exotic car company.
I just think to come out so soft after being away for 3 years SRT just didn't make a big enough statement to GM or the rest of the world. I guess that's what happens when you are the little brother to an exotic car company.
I dont mean the sky is falling by any means. I would have and Im not the only one who would have expected more after 3 years of a hiatus and a benchmark set by other companies that would have been easy enough to meet or beat. Time will tell and I can only expect things will improve.
ViperSmith
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While the McLaren ran over the SRT at the drag, the SRT runs over the McLaren at Laguna. I guess, people want their cake and to eat it too.
If what Bob is saying is true, sounds like it was beat to death before it hit the track. If that is the case, it is another "***" for SRT marketing.
If what Bob is saying is true, sounds like it was beat to death before it hit the track. If that is the case, it is another "***" for SRT marketing.
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VENOM V
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I hear you. I guess my perspective is to look at the big picture, not just the 1/4 mile ETs and MPHs. At Laguna Seca, the Viper TA with less than 300 lbs aero beat a Viper ACR with its 1100 to 1200 lb aero. Also beat the ZR1. The TA ran Corsas, not near the tire that an MPSC is. I'd call that progress in 3 years. On a road course, you are measuring cornering and braking as well as acceleration. Beating the Ferrari 458, Lexus LFA, Audi R8 V10, Lambo, GT-R, and the rest is remarkable, especially considering the limited budget that SRT had. I'm a design engineer and budget has a tremendous impact on what you are able to accomplish. Ralph, Graham and team are to be commended for what they pulled off, resurrecting the Viper program from the dead and dominating once again on the road course.
At the same time, I also agree with your point that SRT should continue to improve the car and learn from this. But haven't they shown that, with the introduction of the TA, so soon after the loss to the ZR1 in the earlier Motor Trend test? Keep the faith, brother.
Very simple -:for those that believe that an 11.1 ET on a first outing is terrible, politely put, you are not a serious drag racer and/or you are delusional. With a 1.6, 60' time, the car would be at 10.8.
That same car with Mopar headers, true double adj shocks and better tires is 10.7 to 10.8 all day.
That same car with Mopar headers, true double adj shocks and better tires is 10.7 to 10.8 all day.
SnakeBitten
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But but then it wont be stock.
I think most want it to do those times stock. Im pretty sure it will do 10's bone stock without the headers etc in the right hands.Newport Viper
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I would have to say that your delusional if you think the car will pick up .3 with a .1 improved 60' time. I drag race often with a car that runs mid 9s at close to 150 and if I net .1 on my 60' I end up with about .15 on the big end occasionally and very occasionally I have gains close to .2 Like I keep saying the long first gear is killing the 60' time. That is the biggest problem. Again I'm not slamming the car or the time. It's just going to be hard for the average guy to get consistent 10 anything with that first gear and low MPH respectively.
Wow guess my 11.6@128Mph in my Gen 4 on street tires with a 1.9 60ft is looking good right now! In seriousness with those tires a 1.5 60Ft is possible for sure on a good track! Mph is what worries me ET will come but MPH doesn't lie!
I did not say it was beat to death. I said that it had been used by a stunt driver previously and that outing probably diminished the clutch a bit before Sunday's event. But, as stated multiple times above, since when is an 11.1 on a less than cool, somewhat humid day, with an engine that was heat soaked a good part ogf the time, on a first outing by the driver,a bad result? Pardon me for saying so but some of the posts on this thread border on the absurd. I would also guess that very few posters could have gotten into the car for the first time and learned it well enough to do an 11.1 under the same condtions notwithstanding the macho bragadoccio.
Second that! WTHell
ViperSmith
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How many people said SRT wouldn't ever close the 2sec gap between it and the ZR1 at LS?
Lets wait and see what happens. It is fast as is and will be faster in time.
Lets wait and see what happens. It is fast as is and will be faster in time.
You are correct, it is a shame we have to cheat, what makes it double bad is that all the ZR1's and ZO6's that ran tens did so with only a good wax job and run flats.
But but then it wont be stock.
The ZR1 is just a better OEM drag car. From the GM high performance site:
"The MR system provides one nice solution by automatically detecting a high rate of lift on the front of the car and kicking the damping of the shocks down to around 33 percent, allowing maximum weight transfer to the back tires. Damping rates can then be modulated up to around 90 percent to hold it there as the car begins to accelerate. "So basically it allows the car to sit, squat, and then go. It's like an electronic traction bar," says Danahy. "It works great and we didn't have to engineer any new hardware. We just changed some 0s and 1s!"
The ZR1 also is geared a bit differently and to my knowledge does not have a"bog" to deal with.
But the new Viper is a better road course car as shown by the TA's faster run at LS with tires less sticky than those used on the ZR1.
If SRT has the budget and can make a DragPack version with parts already in the hopper, the addition of which will not require recertification of the vehicle, perhaps they might put one together but I doubt it because I think the car will sell out pretty easily without doing so and the Viper has always been a road course car.
"The MR system provides one nice solution by automatically detecting a high rate of lift on the front of the car and kicking the damping of the shocks down to around 33 percent, allowing maximum weight transfer to the back tires. Damping rates can then be modulated up to around 90 percent to hold it there as the car begins to accelerate. "So basically it allows the car to sit, squat, and then go. It's like an electronic traction bar," says Danahy. "It works great and we didn't have to engineer any new hardware. We just changed some 0s and 1s!"
The ZR1 also is geared a bit differently and to my knowledge does not have a"bog" to deal with.
But the new Viper is a better road course car as shown by the TA's faster run at LS with tires less sticky than those used on the ZR1.
If SRT has the budget and can make a DragPack version with parts already in the hopper, the addition of which will not require recertification of the vehicle, perhaps they might put one together but I doubt it because I think the car will sell out pretty easily without doing so and the Viper has always been a road course car.
A set of double adjustable shocks will do the same for the viper. You do realize my post above was a joke.
Yes. But on a stock to stock basis without mods, the ZR1 is a better drag vehicle. Stock to stock, it also outperformed the Gen IV coupe in the standing mile. I see no harm in admitting that. I saw it myself. I do not know what the Gen V will do in a standing mile. That should be the next test. What we know for certain now is that the Gen V TA variant holds the production car LS record and that is fantastic!
And here is another reason stock to stock the ZR1 is a better drag car:
And here is another reason stock to stock the ZR1 is a better drag car:
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