Viper tech ????

[acrdakota]

I'm rather curious here, not to start a war or ruffle any feathers just curious. Why do people insist on going to a "viper tech" rather than working on cars themselves? Now before you all erupt into platinum card bliss hear me out.

Yes I know it's a high $$$ car and I wouldn't trust it to any schmuck either. BUT! ...
Is it that you just don't want to work on it yourself?, you have the $$ to pay someone else so it doesn't matter? You aren't confident in your skills as a mechanic to do the job properly?

Note* this doesn't apply to your exponential HP TT car, just for the general owner.

Now for the reason of my inquiry: Every car i've ever owned nobody but myself has ever worked on. And I have no intention of changing that when the viper claims it's spot in the garage. Now this includes the custom stroker build in my current vehicle, running on a full standalone (tuned by me) etc.

My thinking is this: Yes it's an awesome motor, but when it's all said and done it's STILL just a pushrod, center cam, standard motor that is stupidly similar to the LA V8's. Yes it has an aluminum block/heads and certain things need to be compensated as such. But really whats the reasoning behind sending it to the dealer everytime it needs a clutch, oil change, or even oil pan change in the SRT?

Please give your reasoning. If your one of the guys who does all their own work then much respect (Paolo & AB)



Just as an example: I was at a local cruise (fuddruckers, Lake Forest) and there happen to be 2 paxton blown SRT's there. I didn't get a chance to speak with either of the owners but one was critisizing the others car (other owner wasn't present at the time) on the placement of the FMU, fuel pump, relays etc... saying he "did it himself, and it looked sloppy" IMO anyone who puts the effort into their car to do the install gets my respect, any idiot can mail their car off with a bucket of $$$. And just so you know, looking at the two cars there are only a couple small things that were different, and very simple cleanup work at that.

discuss:

 

[98viperGTS]

I have a warrenty so they do it for less then I could. However, when the warrenty is done I will be my own Viper Tech. Of course I will have help from others, like Chuck and Tom, but I will give it a go. It's only a car after all and not a nuclear bomb.

 

[Paul Hawker]

ViperTechs are specially trained Dodge mechanics, who have stepped up to the plate to gain that certification to work on Vipers at Dodge Service facilities.

Only dealerships with certified ViperTechs on staff are allowed to obtain the special tools necessary to work on our special cars.

Just because the Vipers V10 is similar in design does not mean any shade tree mechanic is qualified to work on it. Communications between ViperTechs and Dodge keep the ViperTechs up to date on Viper issues, and Dodge up to date on any service issues.

I feel much more comfortable having a certified ViperTech working on my Viper than the typical Stratus mechanic.

The average do it yourselfer should be very very careful if attempting to work on their own Viper. The learning curve is not like working on Ferrari's but mistakes are much more expensive that screwing up on a Neon.

The "stupidly similar" mechanic would have no clue that SRT could benefit from a baffled oil pan without training, or access to a site like this.

 

[hemibeep]

This car is much more simple than most people think.
The hard part for the DIY person is simple.....the people who know their stuff on these cars are far away!

I built my car from the wreck having never even sat in a Viper before. Simple, get the factory service manual, read the instructions and GO!

I am not saying that a certified tech wouldn't have been great standing here helping, just not possible...

The hardest part is not being able to easily access parts..always to the dealer and the Checkbook....

I understand why many guys don't do their own work....EXTENDED WARRANTY!.

acr, I'm with you....it's just a car(really really cool car)

 

[acrdakota]

ViperTechs are specially trained Dodge mechanics, who have stepped up to the plate to gain that certification to work on Vipers at Dodge Service facilities.

Only dealerships with certified ViperTechs on staff are allowed to obtain the special tools necessary to work on our special cars.

Just because the Vipers V10 is similar in design does not mean any shade tree mechanic is qualified to work on it. Communications between ViperTechs and Dodge keep the ViperTechs up to date on Viper issues, and Dodge up to date on any service issues.

I feel much more comfortable having a certified ViperTech working on my Viper than the typical Stratus mechanic.

The average do it yourselfer should be very very careful if attempting to work on their own Viper. The learning curve is not like working on Ferrari's but mistakes are much more expensive that screwing up on a Neon.

The "stupidly similar" mechanic would have no clue that SRT could benefit from a baffled oil pan without training, or access to a site like this.

I'm curious what do you think the "learning curve" required to work on a viper? We're not talking ripping into the t-56 and adapting a full synchro kit, but basic upgrades. I guess i'm failing to see what is so special. Yes it's an expensive car, but in what way is installing headers, an intake manifold, or paxton supercharger any different from a 5.9L dakota? Other than the different torque specs to compensate for the aluminum parts you'd be shocked just how similar they are. Would you be shocked if I told you that the Gen II cars use the same valve train components as the trucks, just a higher ratio rocker arm? Yip they sure do. I'm not trying to start a war, just curious what it is everyone is so afraid of. Seems to me like things get blown a wee bit out of proportion. It's a bitchin car, but nowhere near as complicated as a f-car or Lambo.

 

[plumcrazy]

i do what i feel i can do as good or better than a tech or mechanic. if i think they can do a better job on a pearticular job THEY do it.

its just a car.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Dodge trucks are seldom driven 200 mph at the silver state. 5.9L Dakota's are not seen on road courses. Vipers are routinely stressed at local drag strips.
My point is that Vipers are extreme high performance machines that their owners routinely take to the track.

An average mechanic will be able to change engine oil, but will they also check out the brake fluid color and make sure to tighten the brake fluid resevoir cap to reduce the chance of it vibrating off.

Lots of little things are learned when working on lots of Vipers.
I applaud owners who work on their own cars, but if I had a choice to buy a used Viper I would lean towards the one maintained by a certified ViperTech, than from one who had a do it yourself supercharger installed.

Do not under estimate the value of a trained ViperTech, working in a clean, well supplied, lift equipped facility, with easy access to parts, tools, and an undistracting work environment.

 

[hemibeep]

I too understand the point of buying a used car from a cert. tech maintined Viper.
But, for me, with obviously rebuilt car, it is rediculous to pay dealer tech prices to make repairs.

My point is, as extended warranties run out, I would hope that owners would pick up a wrench and do some work themselves.

I guess I am a low budget person (read:stubborn) and just don't like to pay a premium for "VIPER TAX"

Example certified tech dealer alignment $249, goodyear alignment $59! I know about the sandbags and weight to correctly set the car up....but mine is a street car, soooo the $190 savings is 2 tanks of gas!

I would rather make a mistake and learn just to say that "I did it myself" rather than "I had blah-blah installed at the dealer"

These cars really are simple, 1/4 of the "tech" of a vette!

 

[acrdakota]

I agree, if it's under warranty I would let the tech do it just for the fact that I wouldn't want to risk voiding it for any reason.

Personally, (and prob you to Hemi) I wouldn't hesitate to take on a head/cam/blower, or standalone pcm install. Been there, done that, it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

As for checking the condition of the brake fluid, brakes, diff fluids, making sure the PS cap doesn't come off etc.. well honestly someone buying a car like this that will see track time should know these things. If they don't before hand then they really need to educate themselves. Not for the sake of saving a buck, but for the safety of themselves and the others on the track. Do we need to post the vid of the guy losing his brakes at the top of a 4th gear straight and putting the car head on into a guard rail??? Maybe I just take a lot of pride in doing my own work, it hasn't failed me yet.

Paul: As for people tracking the cars more etc. I'm not sure how often you make it to the track but take a look at the list for the private track day @ fontana coming up. Seems to be quite a few more very fast trucks than vipers. Saying that people track them more or beat on them harder is purely the group your observing. I'm sure there are quite a few vipers that are hardly driven, really how many posts have there been about guys with 5yr old cars finally replacing the factory tires? But I see your point of view, and for the most part guys that do a lot of the work on cars themselves are likely to keep the car much longer. Chances are you won't see Paolo or AB changing cars anytime soon, where as guys like Carrot and Treynor rotate every year or so.

 

[hemibeep]

As a matter of fact, as we speak, I found a cracked cylinder wall in my GEN II. I found a good machine shop local and having machine work done.

I tore the motor down and will put it back together. I am also asking a few local Viper guys if they want to come over to join in on the fun of reassembly.

Just to give you an idea of non-viper tax prices.....
$975 for a set of ross pistons, $100 for custom sleeve, $350 for block machine work, and $350 for crank polish and balancing. WAY under $2k for a complete freshen up......yes, I found a great price on complete gaskets and am using the arrow hone plate. SO, a new,fresh GEN II motor for $3K.

I am the first one to admit that people should never tackle more than they can handle.....but, these cars are really low-tech compared to MANY others, and that low-tech is what makes them great. As acr said, this is a lifetime car for me, as I have way to much sweat equity in it.

 

[acrdakota]

As a matter of fact, as we speak, I found a cracked cylinder wall in my GEN II. I found a good machine shop local and having machine work done.

I tore the motor down and will put it back together. I am also asking a few local Viper guys if they want to come over to join in on the fun of reassembly.

Just to give you an idea of non-viper tax prices.....
$975 for a set of ross pistons, $100 for custom sleeve, $350 for block machine work, and $350 for crank polish and balancing. WAY under $2k for a complete freshen up......yes, I found a great price on complete gaskets and am using the arrow hone plate. SO, a new,fresh GEN II motor for $3K.

Did you crack the sleve or block it's self? and HOW??? I'm all for doing a motor build at home if you have the proper tools to check all the tolerances. Have you built many motors in the past?

What rings and bearings are you using?
Keeping the stock rods?
Reusing the stock head bolts or going to something like ARP studs?

Ya know, it might not be a bad time to cam it up a bit, maybe get some T&D's on there

Oh don't know if this is of any use to you at all, or even what gen car it's from but check it out: Block for sale

 

[Janni]

As far as working on the car ourselves - we've always done most everything. However, for warranty stuff and everything that needs a DRB, etc was done by Tom Sessions.

The car IS low tech and not hard to work on.

IMO, what's difficult, is finding the TIME. A Viper Tech has the tools and the experience and has already come up the learning curve so they can get it done faster. In addition, with work, travel, and other committments, it's not easy to find 5-6 hours on a weekend to install some headers, etc.

So, I think it's a matter of time management and not fear or inability. Or, that they are just not that into working on cars.

 

[CitySnake]

what's difficult, is finding the TIME.

BINGO Janni! What the heck do you folks do (or don't do) all week that affords you all the time do this kind of work? When the weekend comes, after a good cleaning, all I want to do is drive! For me, it's worth a pretty penny to have someone else do the work so that I can spend what little leisure time I have at the "speed limit". Of course, I'm in Chuck Tator's back yard so I get perfect work done and a very reasonable cost....so maybe that makes my choice easier than most.

I'd be thrilled to have hours to spend under my Viper....but that's exactly why I work...so that I can afford to have someone else do it for me! Of course, that's JMHO.

 

[hemibeep]

Started from water in the oil pan. Having no luck tracking the water leak. There are only a few places to check....so what I did was drop the oil pan and pressurize cooling system to 17 psi. Found the "rain" was coming from #7. pulled piston #7 an found the crack in the iron sleeve.
Pulled motor and took to machine shop.
P.S. many shops wouldn't even look at it....too much risk $$
After shop pulled iron sleeve, found two cracks in the alum block. He welded those an overbored the alum .020. Had oversize sleeve made(DC doesn't sell GEN II sleeves) and pressed it back together. Taking motor .020 and using ross piston/rings. stock rods. stock bearings. stock head bolts.
The heads already already mild port,bowls clean,5 angle,with intake gasket match.
708 cam as I see a DIY TT in my future. Yes, have done both auto and marine motors in the past. This is just a hobby.

 

[JWVIPER]

what's difficult, is finding the TIME.

BINGO Janni! What the heck do you folks do (or don't do) all week that affords you all the time do this kind of work? When the weekend comes, after a good cleaning, all I want to do is drive! For me, it's worth a pretty penny to have someone else do the work so that I can spend what little leisure time I have at the "speed limit". Of course, I'm in Chuck Tator's back yard so I get perfect work done and a very reasonable cost....so maybe that makes my choice easier than most.

I'd be thrilled to have hours to spend under my Viper....but that's exactly why I work...so that I can afford to have someone else do it for me! Of course, that's JMHO.

Took the words out of my mouth, drinking a cold one by the pool is a lot better use of my time than getting greased up, but some folks just love it, do what makes you happy !!!