Jason Heffner
Enthusiast
Of having a driver shootout at VOI drags? All we need is a stock car, let the top drivers have at it and see who takes the claim to fame as the fastest Viper driver in the world?
What are the chances............
- Thread starter Jason Heffner
- Start date
1TONY1
Enthusiast
I suggested that a month back, maybe Dodge or a dealer could supply the car and take a 25.00 to 50.00 fee for 2 or 3 passes then donate the $$$ to charity. We need this to happen!!
Tom Welch
Enthusiast
Jason,
Good idea but I've got one better. Drag racing is about consistancy and longevity. I'm not interested in seeing one run bonzai kamakazi warriors at voi.
The essence of drag racing has always been the process of eliminations that lead to the eventual winner. There is rarely a dispute of who the winner is at a drag racing event. Computers, timers and beams of light take the human mistake factor out of deciding the victor.
I suggest a series of eliminations, similar to what goes on any saturday nite at drag strips across America. This series of eliminations is referred to as "bracket racing".
Racers get a few time runs to determine what their car can run. Then they "dial in" their time on the window of the car with shoe polish. This dial in is a time that their car can achieve without running faster. Once at the starting line, 2 cars with different dial in's are handicapped by computer from the timing tower and the slower car gets a headstart. This headstart is computed so that if the cars were on a rail, and driven perfectly by computer, they would reach the finish line at exactly the same time. Bracket racing was designed to make drag racing affordable and competitive to all participants, so that the racer with the most money doesn't win unless he is also the most consistant car and driver combination.
Bracket racing requires consistancy in the car and driver, and the ability to launch the car quickly.
For our usage, I suggest the following;
1. Keep the class structure that we currently have
2. Have eliminations per class
3. Winners of each class race against each other for best driver of the event.
Its just that simple.
One other important thing that I'd like to add which is common at the "fastest street car" events across the country...your dial in must be within .05 of your best time run. This keeps the faster cars from "sandbagging" and keeps the one run kamakazi bonzai warriors from either being a one run wonder or oiling down the track. Awards can still be handed out to top speed and low et per class, as I would assume that everyone is trying to go as fast as they can on every run.
Just my $ 0.02 Everyone travel safe to this event!
Tom
Http://btrviper.com
Good idea but I've got one better. Drag racing is about consistancy and longevity. I'm not interested in seeing one run bonzai kamakazi warriors at voi.
The essence of drag racing has always been the process of eliminations that lead to the eventual winner. There is rarely a dispute of who the winner is at a drag racing event. Computers, timers and beams of light take the human mistake factor out of deciding the victor.
I suggest a series of eliminations, similar to what goes on any saturday nite at drag strips across America. This series of eliminations is referred to as "bracket racing".
Racers get a few time runs to determine what their car can run. Then they "dial in" their time on the window of the car with shoe polish. This dial in is a time that their car can achieve without running faster. Once at the starting line, 2 cars with different dial in's are handicapped by computer from the timing tower and the slower car gets a headstart. This headstart is computed so that if the cars were on a rail, and driven perfectly by computer, they would reach the finish line at exactly the same time. Bracket racing was designed to make drag racing affordable and competitive to all participants, so that the racer with the most money doesn't win unless he is also the most consistant car and driver combination.
Bracket racing requires consistancy in the car and driver, and the ability to launch the car quickly.
For our usage, I suggest the following;
1. Keep the class structure that we currently have
2. Have eliminations per class
3. Winners of each class race against each other for best driver of the event.
Its just that simple.
One other important thing that I'd like to add which is common at the "fastest street car" events across the country...your dial in must be within .05 of your best time run. This keeps the faster cars from "sandbagging" and keeps the one run kamakazi bonzai warriors from either being a one run wonder or oiling down the track. Awards can still be handed out to top speed and low et per class, as I would assume that everyone is trying to go as fast as they can on every run.
Just my $ 0.02 Everyone travel safe to this event!
Tom
Http://btrviper.com
Bullet488
Enthusiast
No offense guys but I fail to see the point of this "best driver" title. If you want a fair contest of driver and experience, participate in the bracket class at VOI.
The real problem with this "best driver competition" is that it proves someone has taken the time to learn the nuances of a stock car and is not afraid to beat on it. If that is the point, go win the stock class and declare yourself the best driver. Having a no holds barred contest with a donor car doesn't prove much to me. This competition seems to be between a select few that have strictly driven stock cars and want to showcase their driving "mojo". If that is the point, bring out your car and outrun the competition.
I you want to call yourself a good driver, go out and extract as much performance as possible from your individual car. That is to say, you learn where your clutch engages, how your weight transfers, the limits of available traction, optimized shift RPMs, transmission quirks and how to keep from blowing the thing to pieces. At this point, go race in a class with similar cars and you will be able to compete.
Add that to the fact that finding a donor car for a competition of this nature would be tough. You know with ET being the focus the car is going to get hammered. If the track is sticky you’re going to need half shafts. If you got half shafts, you probably have basic exhaust and intake upgrades. Now you can't offer lowest ET in a stock car stats to anyone. Add that to power shifts and a couple of no clutch rips into second and this car will be lucky to make it through the day. Besides, with heat soak, clutch wear, track surface, time of day and the amount of time it will take to pull this off.. I'm afraid you would have nothing but arguments and potential for problems. (Get a little over excited and you could wreck the donor car)
I think it would be fun, but there are alot of problems and with very limited time at the VOI drags.. I would much rather see the true heads-up competitors have the track time to dial in their cars and compete.
Just my .02$
The real problem with this "best driver competition" is that it proves someone has taken the time to learn the nuances of a stock car and is not afraid to beat on it. If that is the point, go win the stock class and declare yourself the best driver. Having a no holds barred contest with a donor car doesn't prove much to me. This competition seems to be between a select few that have strictly driven stock cars and want to showcase their driving "mojo". If that is the point, bring out your car and outrun the competition.
I you want to call yourself a good driver, go out and extract as much performance as possible from your individual car. That is to say, you learn where your clutch engages, how your weight transfers, the limits of available traction, optimized shift RPMs, transmission quirks and how to keep from blowing the thing to pieces. At this point, go race in a class with similar cars and you will be able to compete.
Add that to the fact that finding a donor car for a competition of this nature would be tough. You know with ET being the focus the car is going to get hammered. If the track is sticky you’re going to need half shafts. If you got half shafts, you probably have basic exhaust and intake upgrades. Now you can't offer lowest ET in a stock car stats to anyone. Add that to power shifts and a couple of no clutch rips into second and this car will be lucky to make it through the day. Besides, with heat soak, clutch wear, track surface, time of day and the amount of time it will take to pull this off.. I'm afraid you would have nothing but arguments and potential for problems. (Get a little over excited and you could wreck the donor car)
I think it would be fun, but there are alot of problems and with very limited time at the VOI drags.. I would much rather see the true heads-up competitors have the track time to dial in their cars and compete.
Just my .02$
Jason Heffner
Enthusiast
Geez, sorry I mentioned it.
Larry Macedo
Enthusiast
Jason, I like the idea. How about the best 2 out of 3?
Jason Heffner
Enthusiast
2 out of 3 would work or we could take an average of three runs. Maybe
![hail[1].gif](/vca/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fvca1.viperclub.org%2Fubb%2Fsmilies%2Fhail%5B1%5D.gif&hash=2ae7da1dfdc3fb136480c15ebf3e313e)
Evan Smith could come. I'd like to see how I compare.
Joe (1 Bad GTS) could you set it up?
Tom Welch
Enthusiast
What cracks me up is how a top notch "professional" magazine driver with a car making 200 more rear wheel horsepower than mine and running on a closed session, private prepped track could not beat my stock tire times, not to mention the 10.30's that someone else has ran.
Im sure Mr. Smith is a very nice person, he just has a bad PR agent. LOL.
Tom
Im sure Mr. Smith is a very nice person, he just has a bad PR agent. LOL.
Tom
Gerald
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Welch:
What cracks me up is how a top notch "professional" magazine driver with a car making 200 more rear wheel horsepower than mine and running on a closed session, private prepped track could not beat my stock tire times, not to mention the 10.30's that someone else has ran.
Im sure Mr. Smith is a very nice person, he just has a bad PR agent. LOL.
Tom
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What cracks me up is how jealous you are about it and your lack of comprehension of what a TRUE street car is. LOL!
Get over it and have fun..
Your neighbor,
Gerald
What cracks me up is how a top notch "professional" magazine driver with a car making 200 more rear wheel horsepower than mine and running on a closed session, private prepped track could not beat my stock tire times, not to mention the 10.30's that someone else has ran.
Im sure Mr. Smith is a very nice person, he just has a bad PR agent. LOL.
Tom
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What cracks me up is how jealous you are about it and your lack of comprehension of what a TRUE street car is. LOL!
Get over it and have fun..
Your neighbor,
Gerald
Tom Welch
Enthusiast
Gerald, you faithful german shepheard of your breed. My comments were not directed at Dans choice of mods but at the fact that a highly bragged upon driver did not do better than a regular folk like myself or Steve U.
But, when you are ready we can get side by side and "get over it" together...it will be my pleasure, boy! LOL.....love ya like family!
Tom
But, when you are ready we can get side by side and "get over it" together...it will be my pleasure, boy! LOL.....love ya like family!
Tom
Gerald
Enthusiast
Tom, your as sharp as a marble.
If it really bothers you that much I won't mention it again.
Gerald
If it really bothers you that much I won't mention it again.
Gerald
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
Joe,
All this talk about the challenge that took place last year at the zone event... I find this strange because YOU DIDNT SHOW UP TO THE ZONE EVENT! Remember the zone event was where I was running my highly modified 415RWHP car to 11.6's, and you were.... you were..... sitting at home on the couch maybe? I dunno, but you sure weren't at the zone event.
All this talk about "I HAD Evan..." - you *had* him do something? Is that like saying "this guy threatened me so I had some guy beat him up for me and then I told everyone about how I kicked his a$$"... or maybe like "I saw this cute girl so I had my friend take her out on a date and then I bragged about it".
. Joe, you ever try driving your car yourself? I've never met a bigger drag-race talker who doesn't even drive his own car. I wonder if Frank Williams brags to his friends about how "he won the Formula one race" after Montoya works his a$$ off in the car and makes it happen?
You're a comical guy Joe!
Hey Joe, I posted in the other forum about a big event at New England Dragway on Oct. 13th. I am assuming you will be there, RIGHT? Or is there some reason you can't make it? Lingenfelter will be there himself. How about you and I run identical cars Joe and we will see who is the better driver? Is 11.76 better than what Evan ran in his stock car? I ran 11.76 (and I have the timeslip) when my car was bone-bone-bone stock, with only a few thousand miles on it. I forget what Evan ran but it must have been lower than 11.76 because I know he runs faster in a stock car than anyone else ever has
So will I see you in 2 weeks Joe? Or.....???
All this talk about the challenge that took place last year at the zone event... I find this strange because YOU DIDNT SHOW UP TO THE ZONE EVENT! Remember the zone event was where I was running my highly modified 415RWHP car to 11.6's, and you were.... you were..... sitting at home on the couch maybe? I dunno, but you sure weren't at the zone event.
All this talk about "I HAD Evan..." - you *had* him do something? Is that like saying "this guy threatened me so I had some guy beat him up for me and then I told everyone about how I kicked his a$$"... or maybe like "I saw this cute girl so I had my friend take her out on a date and then I bragged about it".
You're a comical guy Joe!
Hey Joe, I posted in the other forum about a big event at New England Dragway on Oct. 13th. I am assuming you will be there, RIGHT? Or is there some reason you can't make it? Lingenfelter will be there himself. How about you and I run identical cars Joe and we will see who is the better driver? Is 11.76 better than what Evan ran in his stock car? I ran 11.76 (and I have the timeslip) when my car was bone-bone-bone stock, with only a few thousand miles on it. I forget what Evan ran but it must have been lower than 11.76 because I know he runs faster in a stock car than anyone else ever has
So will I see you in 2 weeks Joe? Or.....???
Jason Heffner
Enthusiast
Joe, I have no wat to get in contact with you. Call me at 410-971-5021
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1bad gts:
Mike i help organize and run the zone event at Englishtown every year.Don Nase a i started it .Joe Houss will verify this.You came last year on Sunday.The mop up day .ALL HEADS UP RACING WAS DONE ON Saturday(Smith won the class).You claimed to not know about the event which is only advertised for MONTHS IN ADVANCE. AT first you claimed to have run an 11.68 in a BONE Stock Viper .Since i NEVER saw you at an Englishtown event i DID NOT KNOW )I was e mailed by a FEW people that your car had mods .Now you say mods were minor.In any case whatever was done to your car was not DONE TO LOSE POWER.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Joe what are you talking about? I was there on BOTH days. As a matter of fact I did ALL my best runs on Saturday. I stayed at the hotel in Colt's neck with the guys from Canada, and we came back to the track on Sunday. I made it to the 3rd round in eliminations but then I backed out (of my own free will) because I beat this one guy who I found particularly cocky which was all I really wanted to do, and because the guy in the silver ACR I was supposed to run next round was a cool guy who wanted the trophy for his kids, so I asked Joe to give him my trophy - he said no trophies until the next round, so I backed out and gave the guy a bye run. I don't like bracket racing anyways, so my brother and I headed back over to the autocross and I let my brother drive my car around the AutoX track for a while. How can you say I wasn't there on Saturday? I made a TON of runs. I was hanging with the Nase's and with Jamie Furman in the stands, watching Jason Heffner run. So trust me, I WAS THERE... but you weren't!
As for the mods to my car... you said I had K&N's and drag radials too, remember? I don't believe "a few" people emailed you, because I really didn't talk to anyone there about my car. My car is just a plain GTS that didn't stand out so I don't think anyone would really even remember my car - let alone go over it and pick out mods I had made. Whoever told you that was wrong anyways, because they also said I had K&N's and drag radials, remember? I told you, I had smooth tubes, and I had my exhaust guy cut my muffler off and put 2 pipes there... he used 2.25" pipe (smaller than stock). I did that mod to make the car louder... I ran it for 3 years, even though it was probably costing me horsepower (but giving me extra torque). And you insinuated that maybe I had headwork done too!! just because you couldn't bear to think anyone ran faster than Evan! So, I posted my dyno sheet showing 414RWHP and 462RWTQ. But you still didn't want to buy it and just kept saying it wasn't stock. You don't want to give ANY credit where it's due. What if the car Evan drove was a ringer? Ever think about that? Maybe it's the car that Motor Trend dynoed and produced 424RWHP from? Hmm... you never know. What if Evan's car was making MORE RWHP than mine was? What would you say then? And how come you don't ever mention the runs I made when my car was BONE stock - the same way it came from Dodge, complete with corrugated intake tubes, foam filters, and big muffler... I still have my 11.76 timeslip from back then... but I'm sure there is also a reason why that is not a valid time that beats Evan's run, right?
If you weren't so bull-headed and completely unwilling to admit that ANYONE can be faster than you (Evan) without more mods, then we wouldn't have such a good time calling you on your BS.
Mike i help organize and run the zone event at Englishtown every year.Don Nase a i started it .Joe Houss will verify this.You came last year on Sunday.The mop up day .ALL HEADS UP RACING WAS DONE ON Saturday(Smith won the class).You claimed to not know about the event which is only advertised for MONTHS IN ADVANCE. AT first you claimed to have run an 11.68 in a BONE Stock Viper .Since i NEVER saw you at an Englishtown event i DID NOT KNOW )I was e mailed by a FEW people that your car had mods .Now you say mods were minor.In any case whatever was done to your car was not DONE TO LOSE POWER.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Joe what are you talking about? I was there on BOTH days. As a matter of fact I did ALL my best runs on Saturday. I stayed at the hotel in Colt's neck with the guys from Canada, and we came back to the track on Sunday. I made it to the 3rd round in eliminations but then I backed out (of my own free will) because I beat this one guy who I found particularly cocky which was all I really wanted to do, and because the guy in the silver ACR I was supposed to run next round was a cool guy who wanted the trophy for his kids, so I asked Joe to give him my trophy - he said no trophies until the next round, so I backed out and gave the guy a bye run. I don't like bracket racing anyways, so my brother and I headed back over to the autocross and I let my brother drive my car around the AutoX track for a while. How can you say I wasn't there on Saturday? I made a TON of runs. I was hanging with the Nase's and with Jamie Furman in the stands, watching Jason Heffner run. So trust me, I WAS THERE... but you weren't!
As for the mods to my car... you said I had K&N's and drag radials too, remember? I don't believe "a few" people emailed you, because I really didn't talk to anyone there about my car. My car is just a plain GTS that didn't stand out so I don't think anyone would really even remember my car - let alone go over it and pick out mods I had made. Whoever told you that was wrong anyways, because they also said I had K&N's and drag radials, remember? I told you, I had smooth tubes, and I had my exhaust guy cut my muffler off and put 2 pipes there... he used 2.25" pipe (smaller than stock). I did that mod to make the car louder... I ran it for 3 years, even though it was probably costing me horsepower (but giving me extra torque). And you insinuated that maybe I had headwork done too!! just because you couldn't bear to think anyone ran faster than Evan! So, I posted my dyno sheet showing 414RWHP and 462RWTQ. But you still didn't want to buy it and just kept saying it wasn't stock. You don't want to give ANY credit where it's due. What if the car Evan drove was a ringer? Ever think about that? Maybe it's the car that Motor Trend dynoed and produced 424RWHP from? Hmm... you never know. What if Evan's car was making MORE RWHP than mine was? What would you say then? And how come you don't ever mention the runs I made when my car was BONE stock - the same way it came from Dodge, complete with corrugated intake tubes, foam filters, and big muffler... I still have my 11.76 timeslip from back then... but I'm sure there is also a reason why that is not a valid time that beats Evan's run, right?
If you weren't so bull-headed and completely unwilling to admit that ANYONE can be faster than you (Evan) without more mods, then we wouldn't have such a good time calling you on your BS.
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