What are the differences?????

[Don Hiltz]

I bought my first Viper ('94 RT/10) in 2000 and enjoyed it for 5 years. When I wanted a newer, tighter, water tight model, my son convinced me that I shouldn't get a Gen II because the average person would not see the differences between the two.

In 2005, I bought an '03 SRT 10. The previous owner had the brake calipers painted red, so it looked similar to the later Gen III's. Last week, I purchased a trunk carpet from the Wizard.

Now my question: With the exception of the wheels, are there any other significant differences between an '03 and other Gen III's?

Thanks in advance.....

Don

 

[ronniej]

TTT I'd like to know the differences as well as I'm looking to purchase a GEN 3 sometime soon.

 

[Flexx91]

1. '03 and '04 come with a 7/70 factory Powertrain warranty
2. '03s and '04s with build dates prior to 01/31/04 possibly had cam bolt torque issue.
3. Some '03s had valve clearance issues (some of which were corrected at the factory).
4. '05s and up have a different oil pressure gauge (mid point is 50 psi instead of 40 psi)
5. '05s and up have a slightly different factory head unit
6. '05 and up have slightly different valve covers (vent tubes are at the front as opposed to the rear on '03s and '04s)
7. '04 and up came with a trunk mat (you already mentioned this).
8. Factory oil fill on '03s and '04s is 10W-30 and 0W-40 for '05s and up.
9. No special editions (i.e. Mamba's, VCA editions, Copperheads, Commemoratives) made in '03.

The engine internals may be slightly different but I'm not too sure about that.

 

[DavidSB]

I think the '05 & '06 engines have a knock sensor.

 

[GR8_ASP]

1. '03 and '04 come with a 7/70 factory Powertrain warranty
2. '03s and '04s with build dates prior to 01/31/04 possibly had cam bolt torque issue. I do not believe 2003 had this issue.
3. Some '03s had valve clearance issues (some of which were corrected at the factory). Not valve clearance but a missing intake valve undercut, reducing performance.
4. '05s and up have a different oil pressure gauge (mid point is 50 psi instead of 40 psi)
5. '05s and up have a slightly different factory head unit
6. '05 and up have slightly different valve covers (vent tubes are at the front as opposed to the rear on '03s and '04s)
7. '04 and up came with a trunk mat (you already mentioned this).
8. Factory oil fill on '03s and '04s is 10W-30 and 0W-40 for '05s and up.
9. No special editions (i.e. Mamba's, VCA editions, Copperheads, Commemoratives) made in '03.

The engine internals may be slightly different but I'm not too sure about that.

More significant internal changes:
- different crankshaft dampers
- different connecting rods (and crankshaft balance)
- Added knock sensors

 

[wallbanger]

can u switch to 0w-40 oil if u already use 10w-30.


also my 03 came with red calipers so does that make it a late 03 production

 

[MikeR]

I think the biggest plus of the 03/04 is the added warranty length. As far as other differences I think they are minimal and not something the average guy will notice. Personally I dont like first year of any model. And to me, the biggest differnce I notice and didnt like on the 03's was the black calipers. Otherwise you probably wouldnt regret any year Viper,in my opinion.

 

[03gobluecobra]

Those are some pretty minor differences. The knock sensor would be good insurance though.

 

[GR8_ASP]

If you add boost the conn rods and balancer may be important as well.

 

[Viper X]

Some other changes:

I beleive that from 05 on the oil pressure relief valve / spring set up was changed. The 05's and 06's run much lower oil pressure than the 03 and 04's.
Perhaps the engine bearings or clearances were changed too.

The knock sensor can make re-tuning or modding the engine more difficult, I'm told.

03's had forged rods, 04's on (perhaps a running change) have the cracked cap powdered metal rods - not as strong but lighter.

 

[DodgeViper01]

1. '03 and '04 come with a 7/70 factory Powertrain warranty

The engine internals may be slightly different but I'm not too sure about that.

What did the 05s and 06s come with then? That is a shocking. I had no idea about this one.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I believe that was the #3 main bearing that added a full oil slot. Also the pressure relief valve and spring were 2006 (if my feeble memory serves me right).

Both the forged and powdered metal connecting rods have cracked caps. The forged have 3/8 inch bolts/nuts while the PM rods have 9 mm bolts.

 

[Lawrenzo]

Some other changes:


03's had forged rods, 04's on (perhaps a running change) have the cracked cap powdered metal rods - not as strong but lighter.

Any increase in the redline due to lighter components?

 

[wallbanger]

i've noticed that the oil pressure on my o3 rarely drops below 60 and is usually 80 . is that a problem in the long run

 

[Viper Specialty]

ugh... I have posted this SOOO many times.


For the sake of my sanity, I will modify the above until it is correct. EVERYTHING in this post will be 100% correct, for any future lookers.


1. '03 and '04 come with a 7/70 factory Powertrain warranty
2. '04s with build dates prior to 01/31/04 possibly had cam bolt torque issue.
3. Some '03s had valve Back-Cut issues (some of which were corrected at the factory).
4. '04s and up have a different oil pressure, and Oil Temp gauge (Wider sweeps)
5. '05s and up have a slightly different factory head unit
6. '05 and up have slightly different valve covers (vent tubes are at the front as opposed to the rear on '03s and '04s)
7. '04 and up came with a trunk mat (you already mentioned this).
8. Factory oil fill on '03s and '04s is 10W-30 and 0W-40 for '05s and up.
9. No special editions (i.e. Mamba's, VCA editions, Copperheads, Commemoratives) made in '03.
10. 2003's have different connecting rods than 04+. They are forged in 2003, and PM in 2004+. Crank balance is also different.
11. 05+ has dual knock sensors and thus a different PCM.
12. Crank Trigger location moved from the flywheel in 03-04 to the side of the block in 05-06, like the 92-02 cars.
13. damper bolt changed in 2005+ back to the 3/4" thread from 92-02, VS the smaller 13mm used in 03-04 that was problem-prone to backing out.
14. Main Bearings changed in 2005 to 180 degree mains from 120 in order to adress oil starvation issues at the rods. this accounts for the lower oil pressure at idle seen in 05-06 cars. THE OIL PUMP AND RELIEF DID NOT CHANGE, NOR DID THE CLEARANCES.
15. early 03 cars are problem prone to rear diff carrier shaft failure. easy fix, replace the shaft.
16. 04+ cars have red calipers.
17. timing cover changed in 05 to incorporate a wire holder for the cam sensor. older covers used a bolt-on "clip"


Thats all I can think of right now, but I think I covered some of the more technical ones that not many people know for SURE. I am SURE on these items, I have dealt with ALL of them first hand.

 

[Don Hiltz]

When I posted this thread I was primarily interested in appearance items. However, since it's spread into warranty issues, I thought I'd add some interesting information no one has addressed.

On units built prior to October, 2003, the 7/70 powertrain warranty covered the vehicle itself. On units built subsequent to October, 2003, the warranty was limited to only the first 2 owners. I think too that there was a $50 transfer fee.

I feel comfortable with this information since I am the third owner of an '03 built in March, 2003.

Don

 

[GR8_ASP]

Dan. Almost (but memories do get more vague in time).

13. damper bolt changed in 2005+ back to the 3/4" thread from 92-02, VS the smaller 13mm used in 03-04 that was problem-prone to backing out.

The smaller bolt damper came out in 2004 (not sure if it was at the onset or not). 2003 had the large bolt.

The relief valve change and oil filter change were in 2006 not 2005.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Dan. Almost (but memories do get more vague in time).

13. damper bolt changed in 2005+ back to the 3/4" thread from 92-02, VS the smaller 13mm used in 03-04 that was problem-prone to backing out.

The smaller bolt damper came out in 2004 (not sure if it was at the onset or not). 2003 had the large bolt.

The relief valve change and oil filter change were in 2006 not 2005.

Yep, you are correct on the bolt, ooops- 13mm was only 04, not 03.

However, there was NOT ANY CHANGE in the pressure reliefe valve or filters, unless they are coming with mobil 1 filters or something OEM now. I have an 04 and an 06 timing cover and relief valve in stock, they are NOT different. The bearings changed, nothing else. It is possible it was a mid-05 change and not an early 05 cange, but I have not seen an 05 with 120' bearings yet, it is easy to tell, just look at the oil pressure. 20-30 PSI hot idle=180 bearings, 45-55=120.

 

[Viper X]

Hi Daniel,

Funny, the only thing that I'd debate with you is that oil pressure relief set up. My engine builder told me specifically that there were so many oiling issues with these engines when run hard at the track - SRT and Comp Coupe - that they revised the oil pressure relief valve and spring set up. The earlier ones cavitated under certain conditions.

PM me if interested. My engine builder builds the GTSR motors, comp coupe motors and has extensive knowledge of these things.

Dan

 

[Viper Specialty]

Hi Daniel,

Funny, the only thing that I'd debate with you is that oil pressure relief set up. My engine builder told me specifically that there were so many oiling issues with these engines when run hard at the track - SRT and Comp Coupe - that they revised the oil pressure relief valve and spring set up. The earlier ones cavitated under certain conditions.

PM me if interested. My engine builder builds the GTSR motors, comp coupe motors and has extensive knowledge of these things.

Dan

I have heard this multiple times now, and it makes me question the source it originated from. While I keep hearing the same thing from a select few, neither the Dodge part numbers, nor the actual parts confirm there was ANY change. I have spent the last year developing a Gen-3 engine to meet my needs, and this was certainly one of the things that I looked into extensively... with NOTHING coming out of it. The final product in this engine build is even built out of a brand new 2006 block, and it STILL does not reflect these mystery changes.

Unless I both got an oddball block new from Dodge, as well as Dodges program being wrong, which I cant see BOTH happening, there was no change to the relief. I think that someone way-back-when may have jumped to the PRV conclusion based on the lower oil pressure, as it would be the easiest explanation, before the bearing differences were known.

 

[ViperJoe]

As far as the engine changes only go, is there a general concesus on which one is better, the 03 or the 04?

Thanks

 

[Viper Specialty]

Hands down, the "strongest" is an 03 w/o the valve issues. Highest STOCK output w/best oiling characteristics and reliability (new bearings and knock sensors/lightest rods albeit weakest) will be 05-06. 04 is an off-year so to speak... no knock sensors, 13mm damper bolt, and weaker rods. This is the reason my finalised block is built out of an 06 block, with a hybridized 04/06 wiring harness w/ an 06 PCM and knock logging, etc. The stock internals however are LONG gone, of course.

 

[Racer Robbie]

Hands down, the "strongest" is an 03 w/o the valve issues. Highest STOCK output w/best oiling characteristics and reliability (new bearings and knock sensors/lightest rods albeit weakest) will be 05-06. 04 is an off-year so to speak... no knock sensors, 13mm damper bolt, and weaker rods. This is the reason my finalised block is built out of an 06 block, with a hybridized 04/06 wiring harness w/ an 06 PCM and knock logging, etc. The stock internals however are LONG gone, of course.

I have to agree with Final as to the 03 being the strongest running viper. Mine has always felt stronger than all of the later year vipers. Final, thanks for the great writeup.

Robbie

 

[ViperJoe]

Is this qualified on the dyno too?

Hands down, the "strongest" is an 03 w/o the valve issues. Highest STOCK output w/best oiling characteristics and reliability (new bearings and knock sensors/lightest rods albeit weakest) will be 05-06. 04 is an off-year so to speak... no knock sensors, 13mm damper bolt, and weaker rods. This is the reason my finalised block is built out of an 06 block, with a hybridized 04/06 wiring harness w/ an 06 PCM and knock logging, etc. The stock internals however are LONG gone, of course.

I have to agree with Final as to the 03 being the strongest running viper. Mine has always felt stronger than all of the later year vipers. Final, thanks for the great writeup.

Robbie

 

[Viper Specialty]

Is this qualified on the dyno too?

Hands down, the "strongest" is an 03 w/o the valve issues. Highest STOCK output w/best oiling characteristics and reliability (new bearings and knock sensors/lightest rods albeit weakest) will be 05-06. 04 is an off-year so to speak... no knock sensors, 13mm damper bolt, and weaker rods. This is the reason my finalised block is built out of an 06 block, with a hybridized 04/06 wiring harness w/ an 06 PCM and knock logging, etc. The stock internals however are LONG gone, of course.

I have to agree with Final as to the 03 being the strongest running viper. Mine has always felt stronger than all of the later year vipers. Final, thanks for the great writeup.

Robbie

I think you guys are confusing my meaning of "strongest". I mean strongest as in build strength, not power. The connecting rods in the 2003's are better than 04+, hence the engine is "stronger".

As far as dyno numbers, from what I have seen, the 05-06 cars seem to be putting out the best dyno numbers, followed by an "almost" tie between 2004 and 2003 (w/o valve issues).

 

[DodgeViper01]

1. '03 and '04 come with a 7/70 factory Powertrain warranty

The engine internals may be slightly different but I'm not too sure about that.

What did the 05s and 06s come with then? That is a shocking. I had no idea about this one.

 

[Sam 01 RT10]

1. '03 and '04 come with a 7/70 factory Powertrain warranty

The engine internals may be slightly different but I'm not too sure about that.

What did the 05s and 06s come with then? That is a shocking. I had no idea about this one.

Standard Chrysler/Dodge 3/36 warranty.

 

[DodgeViper01]

Wow. That is amazing. I can not believe they did not have 7yr 70K mile warranties. Just a bumper to bumper. No wonder why the prices went down on 05s and 06s.

 

[05Viper]

When I bought my 05 I was offered the 7/70 and paid for it. So it might not have been standard but it was still available.

 

[Flexx91]

When I bought my 05 I was offered the 7/70 and paid for it. So it might not have been standard but it was still available.

True. Just as it is on any Chrysler vehicle. If you own an '05 or '06 and plan on keeping it over three years (the mileage for most of us is a non factor), buy an extended warranty.