roe blower guys

[PhilC]

Are you guys finding any need to modify the airbox at all in order to get enough air? I've modified the airbox exits to 3" just didn't know if more can/should be done.

Thanks in advance.

Phil

 

[RTTTTed]

The rain baffle in the airbox can be removed for an increase in airflow as well as installing K&N or "green" air filters.

Ted

 

[PhilC]

thanks. I have the K & N s and will do the rain baffle but I keep thinking there was another modifcation that could be done but I can't remember what it was.

Phil

 

[JohnnyBravo]

I went with a custom PBJ air box. It isolates the filters from sucking in hot, underhood air, and it relocates the IAT sensor right behind the NACA duct so that it's always getting fresh ambient air.

It's a great design and seems to flow plenty of air for my Roe. It also came with hard pipes (rather than just silicone smooth tubes) to the throttle bodies and they are tapped for the water/**** nozzles.

Great product.

 

[99 R/T 10]

The IAT is in a bad place and reads too hot than the conditions really are(due to being over the radiator). If you could, place it in a place where it will "see" the incoming air. Not off to the side where it is now.

 

[RTTTTed]

I have a Larry Macedo Custom Air Box with K&N cone fliters. More hp and air, but it's not cheap. It also fits Nitrous and Methanol injection. I've got 70mm TBs as well.

You must be registered for see images

Ted

 

[PhilC]

again, thanks all for your replies. This is such a great resource for people who know their Vipers and are cool enough to share.

Phil

 

[FE 065]

3 inch exits won't do you any good if the inlet area at the front of the airbox is too small...

The opening at the front of the OE airbox is only about 30% the minimum size required for maximum VE of even a non-supercharged 488ci engine at high rpm.

Take a look..does that narrow opening at the front of the OE airbox have as much area as the filter on each side? No.

Btw, the area of NACA duct opening alone is not large enough to supply air to the engine, AND air flowing over the NACA duct at speeds as low as 45 mph ***** air out of the airbox...


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Garage Sale!

 

[1TONY1]

I know mine isn't the fastest.....no wait, it is the fastest

I have the stock air box with 3" outlets with the stock rainbaffle. When I am serious about a max run I remove the filters.
Not saying it couldn't be better, but how big is the inlet on a Paxton or a pair of turbos

 

[Knight Viper]

Here is a shot of what JohnnyBravo was talking about. PBJ air box,K&N filters, 70mm throttle bodies, chrome smooth tube with water methanol injection. Has not shown much improvement on the dyno but has given an extra mph or two in the 1/4. It’s hard for a fan to recreate high speed wind force my .02

 

[TexasPettey]

I've got a 600RWHP Gen1 running on stock Gen1 TB's and airbox with K&Ns. I'm looking to do some staged upgrades to the TB's and airbox this year. I'm going to try ported Gen1 TBs to see what the HP increase looks like. Then, I'm going to step up to 70mm TBs and a new airbox to see what the HP looks like. As I understand it, you can hook a pressure gage onto the air intake tube on the ROE. If you are seeing a drop in pressure, you could use more airflow. No noticable drop in pressure, you've got enough airflow.

 

[Nadine UK GTS]

I'm running a self fabricated air system like PJBs; best I found to work, but smoothed and opened out 3" outlets and rain baffel removed with high flow filters is good too. The SC has more draw ie "*****" air-in than NA. 1Tony1 ...I need you to come and wisper in my ear with those numbers

 

[1TONY1]

I'm running a self fabricated air system like PJBs; best I found to work, but smoothed and opened out 3" outlets and rain baffel removed with high flow filters is good too. The SC has more draw ie "*****" air-in than NA. 1Tony1 ...I need you to come and wisper in my ear with those numbers

Geezzzzz, Don't do that to me Nadine....I'm to old to be teased

 

[FE 065]

I know mine isn't the fastest.....no wait, it is the fastest

I have the stock air box with 3" outlets with the stock rainbaffle. When I am serious about a max run I remove the filters.
Not saying it couldn't be better, but how big is the inlet on a Paxton or a pair of turbos

Ah but you could be fastERest ! Unless you're saying it's impossible to restrict a blower or turbo's hp production with inefficient plumbing in front of it..

Tuner G2 Paxtons don't use the OE airbox do they?

TT Vipers usually don't use an airbox at all.

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Garage Sale!

 

[1TONY1]

Ah but you could be fastERest ! Unless you're saying it's impossible to restrict a blower or turbo's hp production with inefficient plumbing in front of it..

Tuner G2 Paxtons don't use the OE airbox do they?

TT Vipers usually don't use an airbox at all.

Paxton and TT....... how big is the inlet area ? That's all I'm saying. A single Paxton isn't very big. Lets do some stock airbox inlet size measurements....I'll work on that today. What are the inlet sizes on a Paxton and a pair of medium turbos ?

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

More, cooler air is better. Be interested to see the outcome of this thread.

Now, I will raise the dreaded Vipair discussion once again. . We have 2 Vipers, one with that dastardly device......and one without. Both have 5 pound Roe blowers and I have logged extensively with my upgraded VEC 2s. Our 01 car IAT was consistently around 20+ degrees higher than the 00, during 3rd gear logging runs, with roughly the same outside air temp. Couldn't figure it out. If the 00 car was reading 98F through the sensor input, the 01 car would be in the 120-125F range. Then a little light went on. It has to be the Vipair not allowing the hot engine compartment air to get in there. Far be it from me to declare how much power is lost for increased intake air temperature, but it is a fact that cooler air makes any gas engine run better and stronger. There I've said it. ...The Vipair reduces IAT considerably and therefore must add a little power to the equation. I didn't buy it for the purpose of adding power. The theory of it's function----limiting hot engine air seemed like a good one to me. ....... cooler air equals better for the engine. Now I would be curious to know if restricting air to just the NACA duct then becomes a tradeoff for the increased IAT when the stock set up takes in a little more air, albeit hotter, from around the engine compartment?

...I bought the Vipair for the 00 car almost 4 years ago -- pre Roe. Until today, I was a closet Vipair owner. I'm now out of the closet.

Steve

 

[dave6666]

Until today, I was a closet Vipair owner. I'm now out of the closet.

Steve

Wow. What a support group that might be forming here. I've been eying the one on ebay for $59.99 after talking to Dave at Big Brakes. He 'splained a lot of things to me that made sense to get one.

Maybe we could have an "owners" luncheon?

 

[Shelby3]

The Vipair got a bad reputation because of some of the claims made at it's introduction that could not be proven on a dyno. Many people continue to bash it without taking the time to understand what it does or how it works.

The NACA duct was not the best idea Dodge ever came up with which is why it wasn't used after 2002 or before 1996. All the top road racers in Gen II's including Mumford, blocked off the NACA duct and ran with a configuration similar to the Vipair. That has always been good enough for me and I have had one on both of my GTS's.

 

[FE 065]

More, cooler air is better. Be interested to see the outcome of this thread.

Now, I will raise the dreaded Vipair discussion once again. . We have 2 Vipers, one with that dastardly device......and one without. Both have 5 pound Roe blowers and I have logged extensively with my upgraded VEC 2s. Our 01 car IAT was consistently around 20+ degrees higher than the 00, during 3rd gear logging runs, with roughly the same outside air temp. Couldn't figure it out. If the 00 car was reading 98F through the sensor input, the 01 car would be in the 120-125F range. Then a little light went on. It has to be the Vipair not allowing the hot engine compartment air to get in there. Far be it from me to declare how much power is lost for increased intake air temperature, but it is a fact that cooler air makes any gas engine run better and stronger. There I've said it. ...The Vipair reduces IAT considerably and therefore must add a little power to the equation. I didn't buy it for the purpose of adding power. The theory of it's function----limiting hot engine air seemed like a good one to me. ....... cooler air equals better for the engine. Now I would be curious to know if restricting air to just the NACA duct then becomes a tradeoff for the increased IAT when the stock set up takes in a little more air, albeit hotter, from around the engine compartment?

...I bought the Vipair for the 00 car almost 4 years ago -- pre Roe. Until today, I was a closet Vipair owner. I'm now out of the closet.

Steve

Input from the field is always important and usually to be heeded.

Problem is I've measured temps (not using the OE IAT sensor) at the front of an OE airbox on the same day-just minutes apart, both with and without a homemade Vipair and could not see any difference at all in inlet temps at 50mph.

Readings were the same as ambient either way.

Someone will still have to explain how any heated engine compartment air finds its' way forward at speed through all the plastic separating the engine compt from the front of the airbox inlet AND how so much of it would be present at speed as to significantly raise inlet temps.

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Garage Sale!

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

This measurement is the signal from the OEM stock IAT sensor in the airbox. This signal would be the same info the stock PCM uses to help run the car. The temps are recorded in the logging run graphs. The outside air temp was 85F. Speeds were from 40-105 MPH or so. I have literally dozens of runs at various temps where the non Vipair car consistently ran 15-25 degrees hotter in the log.

Unless the VEC is ciphering the info wrong--off the 0-5 volt signal, then the comparison you used is not using the same parameters the stock PCM is set for---or----sensing from the different place gave you the readings you got. Even then, as far as the VEC is concerned, the results would be relative. ie. temps may not be accurate, but they are relative to each other.

Also, I am doing WOT runs. It would seem you were checking a static speed. My IAT temp rises as much as 5-8 degrees for both cars during the course of the WOT runs.

I guess I would ask the question...........what then explains the 20 degree difference in temps?

Steve

 

[FE 065]

First off, if I read your post correctly, you're quoting logged temps from 2 different cars. Which like it or not throws a big question mark into the deduction.

Making some temp logs in one car - w/ and w/o the Vipair is the only way to arrive at a reliable result.


Yes I was checking static speed. Your WOT runs are on a dyno or hurtling down the road with air rushing into the facia?


Anything's possible, but I don't see the opportunity for air behind the radiator finding its' way forward as speed increases. Unless of course air being siphoned out of air box via the NACA duct is drawing engine compartment air in to replace what's going out the hood.

Still kind of improbable.

Your large number of comparos would seem to make the readings beyond question-except they involve two different vehicles. 15-20deg temp differences are really kind of suspect if the testing procedure is the same.

If there's a soak period between runs, or a difference in which the runs for two different cars are done, maybe the IAT is getting heated and takes some time to cool down during a run? Seems like JackB has previously posted questions about his IAT sensor being subject to heat soak, and moved it in order to stabilize conditions its' exposed to.

I'd have to think steady speed runs at any speed would be reliable enough, but..?


Keep up the good work.





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Garage Sale!

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

You are right. 2 different cars does muddy the mix. However they are quite similar. 2000/2001 cars, 5 pound Roes, Belanger Headers, 3" exhaust. I know the only semi scientific way would be to log with one car at a certain temp, then come home, immediately throw the 'contraption' on the other and go back out again. Because the yellow car is mostly about form and not function (although it functions quite well now after tuning the AFR)--it's not that important for me to do. I'm putting the yellow one away soon. Maybe next year, in the interest of Viperdom, I will conduct the test. The other variable is the VEC itself. I would have to swap out those units as well. I hate pulling the multi pin master/slave connectors apart any more than I have--especially as I have them pretty well weather proofed with a wrap of paper towel, electrical duct seal over the towel, and a wrap of 33+ over it all. That type of connector is kind of a weak link in the equation from a durability standpoint.


Hurtling down the road would be the exact description of the test .....although I am on a semi closed course, both cars are very loud and one risks some jail time with every high speed hurtle. I typically do back to back runs in 3rd gear. On a hot day, this also tests out the IAT fuel percentage decrease function. I seem to have it pretty well nailed down from 65-95F outside temp doing two back to back runs. I have to wait for a cold weather log to see how my fuel increase amount functions at ....say 45F. I could have gone early today. It was 29F and frost at 7:30 AM up here. (I previously had 3 cards for my VEC 2. 50/75/95F.)

I can understand questioning air moving forward.....perhaps a vortex of sorts is created, sucking the air into the front of the box whether at WOT or a static speed? As you know, for some reason, the GEN II cars are the b*stard child in the mix as GEN Is and IIIs all **** in air in a Vipair sort of way.

Steve

 

[GR8_ASP]

Steve, another significant difference is the 2001 has a front air dam. Not sure how that affects it but it is a significant difference.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

Steve, another significant difference is the 2001 has a front air dam. Not sure how that affects it but it is a significant difference.

Never thought of that..........now it's getting more complicated Guess I'll have to flop it out next year one time. Probably won't swap VECs though.

Steve

 

[dave6666]

Steve, another significant difference is the 2001 has a front air dam. Not sure how that affects it but it is a significant difference.

If you talk to Dave at Big Brakes, he explains how the Vipair interacts with the Roe facia kit (in a good way). Which the Roe kit cuts away a good part of the air dam, and other things. Dave did a good job of explaining it to me, how it all works together. I wish I would have done a better job of paying attention so I could repeat what he said. I'd love to hear his comments "analyzed" on this forum.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

If you talk to Dave at Big Brakes, he explains how the Vipair interacts with the Roe facia kit (in a good way). Which the Roe kit cuts away a good part of the air dam, and other things. Dave did a good job of explaining it to me, how it all works together. I wish I would have done a better job of paying attention so I could repeat what he said. I'd love to hear his comments "analyzed" on this forum.

I have an Autoform front splitter -- Not Roe. My uneducated guess would be the same:
....That it would tend to scoop more outside air into the airbox intake area thereby adding more cooler air to the mix.

Steve

 

[dave6666]

I have an Autoform front splitter -- Not Roe.

How do you keep from grinding that splitter off at every street intersection or driveway?

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

How do you keep from grinding that splitter off at every street intersection or driveway?

Actually, the lowest part of the car is still the bottom 1" lip inboard from the splitter. Believe it or not, the edge you're looking at is roughly 1" higher than the lip ... I'm guessing the lip to be 1" or so. The splitter bottom rides right on the bottom of the fascia.

Steve

 

[dave6666]

Actually, the lowest part of the car is still the bottom 1" lip inboard from the splitter. Believe it or not, the edge you're looking at is roughly 1" higher than the lip ... I'm guessing the lip to be 1" or so. The splitter bottom rides right on the bottom of the fascia.

Steve

I believe you. But that part that I see sticks out WAY farther than the stock facia, which is several inches above the lowest part. IMHO, sticks out farther, is lower, how do you survive?

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

I was quite worried when we bought the car that it wouldn't go up our pretty steep driveway. I need to hit it at about a 30 degree angle with the 'regular' Viper. Surprisingly, it is no harder to get up the driveway than the gray car. No lesser angle is needed.

Steve