Doomed

Mike Adams · Dec 12, 2012

I agree I was disappointed too. But I look at a Shelby gt500 till I had one at my shop and not person pulled in to look at it. Last week had my old 1998 GTS here and a Ferrari. More people stopped and looked at the Viper. In Toronto Porsche, Corvette, Audi are everywhere. Rarely see a Viper. Plus I buying it will Employ Canadian's and Americans people who keep my Business alive.

I will be upping horse power

ferraritoviper · Dec 12, 2012

<<Now to the point. As others have mentioned, yes a lot of F and P cars guys will cross over, TEMPORARILY.>>

As a former F owner, I gave up my factory optioned 2004, for the 2009 Viper...and recently ordered the 2013 Gen 5. I'd say that's a bit more than temporary, no? There are a few other present and former F owners in he VCA, and would be interested to see what they say from the horses mouth...

VYPR BYT 94 · Dec 12, 2012

I'm really getting sick of hearing short sighted car guy wannabe's spewing the same ole' 1/4 mile this and 0-60 that!
I can put together a radio controlled rc toy that will kick any one of their cars in the nards 0-60.
If that's all you care about then buy a 4 wheel drive tin can and have fun going back-n-forth in a straight line with that stupid "SpongeBob Squarepants" look in your eyes!

end rant

v10enomous · Dec 12, 2012

I know PoorRichard who has has a 2010 Gen4 and a an Gen2 RT/10 and an FGT loves to trash the F cars that he's owned saying they were all crap and he would never look back.

ferraritoviper said:
<<Now to the point. As others have mentioned, yes a lot of F and P cars guys will cross over, TEMPORARILY.>>

As a former F owner, I gave up my factory optioned 2004, for the 2009 Viper...and recently ordered the 2013 Gen 5. I'd say that's a bit more than temporary, no? There are a few other present and former F owners in he VCA, and would be interested to see what they say from the horses mouth...

Jack B · Dec 12, 2012

A few insights from a drag racer who just purchased a GenV

1. My current 8.0L Gen2 is slightly modified and runs consistent 11.0x at 129.XX. The last five runs in 2012 were in a range of 11.00 to 11.03. This year it will run 10.8-10.9 because of some chassis tweaks.

2. Every run is under a 3.0 sixty mph time. I have had some sub 2.5 sec times.

3. One reason I bought the GenV is that I know I can better the Gen2 times.

4. The light flywheel is a negative to launch times. Anyone that drag races will have a large learning curve to launch correctly with a light flywheel.

5. The Gen4 cars were approximately 520 rwhp. With race headers, high flow cats and efficient mufflers the cars are approximately 570 rwhp. Take the cat off and you are probably at 580-585 rwhp. That puts the GenV at over 600 rwhp and a for-sure 10.xx 1/4 mile time.

6. To get a good launch and good ET you need some wheel slip or wheel speed coming out of the box, just a guess, but, the launch control is going to fight the perfect start. Look at the video of the car launching and watch it fall on its face after the first ten ft in every run, that is because of the light flywheel and inability to maintain some tire slippage. Most of this can be overcome, but, it will take time. What they should be publishing is the 60 foot time, that will tell us what we have to do to get the launch dialed in. My guess is tht driver at delivering at best a 2.0 sixty ft time. Bring that down to 1.5X (very possible) and you are now a sub 3 second 60 mph time and a 10.XX second ET.

7. The 19" tire can be made to track extremely well, however, it is the opposite of what you want in a drag tire. Buy the e-brake relocation kit from Woodhouse, put, on 18" wheels and Mickey Thompson DR's and you will be down in the 2's for your 60 mph times.

8. In the 1/4 mile, for every 1/10 of a second you drop the 60 ft time (ie: 1.7 to 1.6) you will drop the ET by by 2/10 of a second. I am being conservative, it might be more.

9. When you see the ZR1 and GTR's group posting good times don't you think they know everything stated above and they know how to adjust to get the best out of the car?

Why does something so good bring out such uneducated morons.

v10enomous · Dec 12, 2012

Jack B said:
6. To get a good launch and good ET you need some wheel slip or wheel speed coming out of the box, just a guess, but, the launch control is going to fight the perfect start. Look at the video of the car launching and watch it fall on its face after the first ten ft in every run. Most of this can be overcome, but, it will take time.

+1 I haven't been on a drag strip in decades but this is what I thought too. The driver sacrificed too much power band for anticipated traction imo.

bluestreak · Dec 12, 2012

This is not all true, there is a chance Porsche may not produce their GT car (Turbo, GT2, GT3) with manuals anymore. Snobs or not, many Porsche guys are purists too and will not accept a flappy paddle gearbox, electric steering, rear wheel steering, torque vectoring and the host of other gadgets Porsche is trying to cram on the new 991. The 991 is now super expensive too, 120k for a base 991S. The GT3 will be 150k and the Turbo who knows.

I am one of those. I own an 03 Turbo (all track car), and it will be Corvette or Viper for me before I settle for car that require no driver skill to go fast. Porsche has tried these tricks before and had them backfire, trying to push front engine on people with the 944 or use more modern headlights on the 996. Bottom line is that many Porsche guys care about the experience more than just outright speed.

BigDawg said:
Had you not posted your unnecessary Question and Answer I might have given you some credit. Please save your political plugs for the niketalk forum or maybe ESPN.com. They'd appreciate that over there. On a forum composed of business owners, professionals, and winners that jab isn't going to be appreciated.

Now to the point. As others have mentioned, yes a lot of F and P cars guys will cross over, TEMPORARILY. I predicted the same thing with the SRT Jeep. They crossed over to have the newest thing on the block, shortly there after they sold it and went back for the snob factor. Going after Ferrari and Porsche guys has to be the dumbest business plan I've heard. I disagree with all of you. SRT could easily have offered one model of Viper, improved the interior without going overboard, and ditched the stupid stuff like the adjustable ride control. Completely unnecessary for a Viper. If you don't like it, don't buy it. There are countless other sports cars and exotics out there within reach.

The Viper was defined by it's flat out refusal to conform and to appease the naysayers. The whole premise of the Gen V is compromise. The Viper NEVER compromised. The Viper said F U to all of you nanny comfort people and made a crude raw machine. Why? Because no one else did. It was great. Now the nanny bots say "purist have their option, we have ours". I say bull****. That dilutes the Viper. Nanny people should not have an option. Well, they do have options, only they are from different manufacturers. So ESC had to be mandated? Fine, I accept that. Put a decent stereo in it, give it nice leather interior, fine, I accept that. But to go over the top with all of the goodies is a slap in the face to the Viper's heritage. The Viper is not a Ferrari no matter how bad some of you secretly wish it to be. The gen V Viper is a lost and confused car. It's attempting to appeal to too many groups instead of the niche market it's best at.

Now we've got a cheapo (sarcasm people) model with a crappy interior being upstaged by a fancy GTS. Lame.

Will I buy a Gen V? Yes, probably after they give it a HP bump. Am I greatly disappointed in the direction SRT took the Viper? Yes. Then again, I'm also disappointed in the evolution of the Viper crowd. A lot of yuppies now.

PS. The Gen III never sold well because it was a terrible design. Flat and angular. It was a huge departure from what made the Viper successful. It had nothing to do with the lack of refinement. Only a stupid bean counter would attribute refinement to its decline. The Gen III/IV survived because of the loyalty of the diehard Viper fan.

PS2. Of the ZR1 guys I know, none paid anywhere near MSRP for theirs. That wasn't long after they were released. Don't forget the Vette's 50 year or so heritage. With that many fans they would have sold regardless of specs.

ferraritoviper · Dec 12, 2012

v10enomous said:
I know PoorRichard who has has a 2010 Gen4 and a an Gen2 RT/10 and an FGT loves to trash the F cars that he's owned saying they were all crap and he would never look back.

v10, I definitely wouldn't say a factory new Ferrari is crap, actually the opposite. It is the finest production car in it's price range on the planet, in my experience and opinion....although not to sure on the California.

ACRucrazy · Dec 12, 2012

Jack B said:
A few insights from a drag racer who just purchased a GenV

1. My current 8.0L Gen2 is slightly modified and runs consistent 11.0x at 129.XX. The last five runs in 2012 were in a range of 11.00 to 11.03. This year it will run 10.8-10.9 because of some chassis tweaks.

2. Every run is under a 3.0 sixty mph time. I have had some sub 2.5 sec times.

3. One reason I bought the GenV is that I know I can better the Gen2 times.

4. The light flywheel is a negative to launch times. Anyone that drag races will have a large learning curve to launch correctly with a light flywheel.

5. The Gen4 cars were approximately 520 rwhp. With race headers, high flow cats and efficient mufflers the cars are approximately 570 rwhp. Take the cat off and you are probably at 580-585 rwhp. That puts the GenV at over 600 rwhp and a for-sure 10.xx 1/4 mile time.

6. To get a good launch and good ET you need some wheel slip or wheel speed coming out of the box, just a guess, but, the launch control is going to fight the perfect start. Look at the video of the car launching and watch it fall on its face after the first ten ft in every run, that is because of the light flywheel and inability to maintain some tire slippage. Most of this can be overcome, but, it will take time. What they should be publishing is the 60 foot time, that will tell us what we have to do to get the launch dialed in. My guess is tht driver at delivering at best a 2.0 sixty ft time. Bring that down to 1.5X (very possible) and you are now a sub 3 second 60 mph time and a 10.XX second ET.

7. The 19" tire can be made to track extremely well, however, it is the opposite of what you want in a drag tire. Buy the e-brake relocation kit from Woodhouse, put, on 18" wheels and Mickey Thompson DR's and you will be down in the 2's for your 60 mph times.

8. In the 1/4 mile, for every 1/10 of a second you drop the 60 ft time (ie: 1.7 to 1.6) you will drop the ET by by 2/10 of a second. I am being conservative, it might be more.

9. When you see the ZR1 and GTR's group posting good times don't you think they know everything stated above and they know how to adjust to get the best out of the car?

Why does something so good bring out such uneducated morons.

Thank God someone said it!

AJ02 · Dec 12, 2012

Let me take a wild stab here-----You don't like the car!! Ok, end of story. If you feel you can't drive a car unless you have the "bragging rights" to the fastest car on the planet then don't buy it. Go buy whatever you feel will be the car to get you those rights. I was at a gas station not long ago and a kid with a ricer was on the other side. He loudly said,(so everyone at the station could hear him), I can beat that at the dragstrip! I replied----I bet you can, but I don't care. I don't race my Gen 2 nor can I afford the Gen 5, but I still think it is a car that, as my GTS does, will have people taking pictures and videos on the highway and stopping you to ask can they look at your car. I think the Viper will remain a "supercar". At most of the car shows I've been to, it's the Ferrari owners that are coming over to look at and compliment the Vipers, not the other way around. So the car doesn't live up to your hopes and expectactions, move on to whetever does it for you.

Smog Dog · Dec 12, 2012

Jack B said:
Why does something so good bring out such uneducated morons.

I loved the post, particularly this last thought! Absolutely hilarious! :lmao:

Bill

emericr · Dec 12, 2012

Wow, you guys are going easy on him. Did I soften you up?? :eater:

Am I disappointed at the numbers? yes. Most manufacturers of high hp cars are starting to realize that to compete on the 0-60 or 1/4 mile time, RWD is not the perfect set up. The quickest cars are all 4WD (Aventador, 911TT and GTR).
The numbers are bragging rights and I agree that the Viper has lost some of its edge in that department. Hell, it could even get beat by a mere stock CLS at the drag strip.
However as other have pointed out, you don't buy a Viper just for those performance numbers. Looks (subjective) and track abilities (objective) are still at the top of the food chain.
I agree with OP that SRT will have a very difficult time making the Viper profitable but hopefully it will realize that the Viper is an icon and it needs to stay alive.

v10enomous · Dec 12, 2012

emericr said:
The quickest cars are all 4WD (Aventador, 911TT and GTR).

So my other choices are to spend $400k or drive something that evolved from a VW Beetle or looks like an Altima :dunno:

Hmmmm

mad0953 · Dec 12, 2012

v10enomous said:
So my other choices are to spend $400k or drive something that evolved from a VW Beetle or looks like an Altima Hmmmm

Ditto. I am going to wait until the Gen V is realeased to the public and there are real world tests before I make up my mind. Anybody with an IQ over 80 would do the same thing. Don't believe anything you read and only half of what of what you see.....get it?

emericr · Dec 12, 2012

Don't get me started on that point again. There are plenty of other choices other than a 2 door supercar to put down that kind of straight line performance. People buy the Viper for the entire package but straight line performance is no longer a trump card for the Viper.

v10enomous said:
So my other choices are to spend $400k or drive something that evolved from a VW Beetle or looks like an Altima Hmmmm

Fangs10 · Dec 12, 2012

Doomed or not I'm flying my Gulfstream G650 into Roanoke...u do have an airport right?

kdaviper · Dec 12, 2012

BigDawg said:
Had you not posted your unnecessary Question and Answer I might have given you some credit. Please save your political plugs for the niketalk forum or maybe ESPN.com. They'd appreciate that over there. On a forum composed of business owners, professionals, and winners that jab isn't going to be appreciated.

Now to the point. As others have mentioned, yes a lot of F and P cars guys will cross over, TEMPORARILY. I predicted the same thing with the SRT Jeep. They crossed over to have the newest thing on the block, shortly there after they sold it and went back for the snob factor. Going after Ferrari and Porsche guys has to be the dumbest business plan I've heard. I disagree with all of you. SRT could easily have offered one model of Viper, improved the interior without going overboard, and ditched the stupid stuff like the adjustable ride control. Completely unnecessary for a Viper. If you don't like it, don't buy it. There are countless other sports cars and exotics out there within reach.

The Viper was defined by it's flat out refusal to conform and to appease the naysayers. The whole premise of the Gen V is compromise. The Viper NEVER compromised. The Viper said F U to all of you nanny comfort people and made a crude raw machine. Why? Because no one else did. It was great. Now the nanny bots say "purist have their option, we have ours". I say bull****. That dilutes the Viper. Nanny people should not have an option. Well, they do have options, only they are from different manufacturers. So ESC had to be mandated? Fine, I accept that. Put a decent stereo in it, give it nice leather interior, fine, I accept that. But to go over the top with all of the goodies is a slap in the face to the Viper's heritage. The Viper is not a Ferrari no matter how bad some of you secretly wish it to be. The gen V Viper is a lost and confused car. It's attempting to appeal to too many groups instead of the niche market it's best at.

Now we've got a cheapo (sarcasm people) model with a crappy interior being upstaged by a fancy GTS. Lame.

Will I buy a Gen V? Yes, probably after they give it a HP bump. Am I greatly disappointed in the direction SRT took the Viper? Yes. Then again, I'm also disappointed in the evolution of the Viper crowd. A lot of yuppies now.

PS. The Gen III never sold well because it was a terrible design. Flat and angular. It was a huge departure from what made the Viper successful. It had nothing to do with the lack of refinement. Only a stupid bean counter would attribute refinement to its decline. The Gen III/IV survived because of the loyalty of the diehard Viper fan.

PS2. Of the ZR1 guys I know, none paid anywhere near MSRP for theirs. That wasn't long after they were released. Don't forget the Vette's 50 year or so heritage. With that many fans they would have sold regardless of specs.

If offering 2 models was a bad choice, especially the dual-mode suspension, then why are the GTS models outselling the base SRT nearly 2 to one?

denniskgb · Dec 12, 2012

Smog Dog said:
Well stated! My sentiments exactly.....

Bill

agree 100%. also 90% of the people have really no clue about millisecond differences 0-60 and 1/4 mile stats. viper is undeniably is such a classic and highly recognizable car on the road. with the changes dodge made to it , they are priced accordingly. and remember we are supposed to share roads not to battle...made it sound there is a full scale road rage war out there.... :lmao:

FLL-B/W-GTS · Dec 12, 2012

I to will be buying a new Gen 5 Viper.It will be my third Viper.In saying that,I know for a fact that my new 911 Turbo S w PDK will just leave the new Viper.My Porsche runs 10.80s w /LC and 11.00s @ 129 all day long/every time(Bone Stock).The traction going to all four wheels with very little spin and the super fast shifts can not be beat.Esp.Red light to Red Light.I look forward to one day the new Vipers having a dual clutch automatic trans.That will Run with the 911T/S and GTR.However,I do love the Viper and look forward to getting my new Gen 5.

ACR steve · Dec 12, 2012

Funny how guys keep talking about the maxperformance of a car but can’t drive the car at that level on their best day.Learn to drive properly the report back on the Gen V

Bobpantax · Dec 12, 2012

Hi Keith. How are U? Still in NC? What did you replace your Viper with? We missed you during the election.

PDCjonny · Dec 12, 2012

ACR steve said:
Funny how guys keep talking about the maxperformance of a car but can’t drive the car at that level on their best day.Learn to drive properly the report back on the Gen V

Party pooper.
There hasn't been this much action around here since the Gen 5 introduction and the 2011 'Ring run...

mad0953 · Dec 12, 2012

Bobpantax said:
Hi Keith. How are U? Still in NC? What did you replace your Viper with? We missed you during the election.

gOOD ONE bOB.

:usa:

ACR steve · Dec 12, 2012

Jon thats because you have been quite

you coming to the holiday party ???

Dom426h · Dec 12, 2012

ACR steve said:
Funny how guys keep talking about the maxperformance of a car but can’t drive the car at that level on their best day.Learn to drive properly the report back on the Gen V

+1,

Steve, I am so glad that we have folks like YOU in the Viper world that "Get It" :2tu:

I Bin Therbefor · Dec 12, 2012

The FIRST modification to any Viper SHOULD BE driver school for the owner/driver.

Photog1 · Dec 12, 2012

Fangs10 said:
Doomed or not I'm flying my Gulfstream G650 into Roanoke...u do have an airport right?

You will have to fly into the Peoria airport. I am sure John will be glad to pick you up. :2tu:

Ray W · Dec 12, 2012

SRT is betting there are more people wanting to buy a softer friendlier Viper. Currently 2 to 1 margin for fluff. Is that ratio because more people are coming over to SRT because of the upgrades ? Will they keep their new Viper and buy another after it scares the crap out of them or after they find out it is no longer the baddest car on the planet ?

How many potential and previous buyers crossed off the Viper when it didn't come out with 700hp ? Would the ratio be closer then ?

I haven't read about too many people getting rid of their GTR's,Turbo S or 458's to get the new Viper.

Chevrolet does not give Camaro's the Covette's power or performance,so don't think Fiat is going to give SRT more or the same performance of a Ferrari. Just in case someone might want to improve the Vipers' horsepower numbers let's lock up the computer to make sure it stays Federal EPA compliant.

NVMYVPR · Dec 12, 2012

Really? No wait let me make an ignorant political statement and then go on to talk about a car. Let me pretend that my asinine opinion about a very expensive car matters to 99% of Viper owners, oh and then let me insult that 99%. You are a paragon of insight and forethought, or what I usually refer to as another rich, self possessed ********. Oh wait I get it I am being punked right? Where's Ashton?

MtnBiker · Dec 12, 2012

bluestreak said:
People forget the generation III and IV were largely forgettable if it were not for the ACR (when it comes to performance). The Gen III got spanked by the Z06 and then the Gen IV only surpassed it because of the MPSC that came on it and it was still a nail biter in most scenarios. The Z07 spec Corvette with the MPSC smokes the Gen IV on the track and they are pretty much even on the drag strip. The ZR-1 is just plain faster. . When the ACR rolls around, we should expect a world ******, but the Gen III and IV cars were nothing of the sort.

I may be biased here, but why the hate on the Gen IV? It's a beautiful car. I see people taking vid and pictures of my car all the time. I just came out of a Z06 and that was forgettable. People absolutely dig the Gen IV! And it scares the crap out of me daily. What more could I ask for? Keeps me on my toes and full of respect.

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