Accident at Viper Days, need insurance help!

[VIPORXXX]

My son had an accident at Viper Days at VIR.
I was not my Viper fortunately, unfortunately the damage to
my other car was a little over 10K. I have State Farm Insurance and
they have initially denied coverage stating the car was engaged in
"Racing" versus a "Driving School". The accident is now under investigation
by them with a decision to come within 10 days. Does anyone have
any experience with Stae Farm paying any claims from driving school
accidents.

For those legal types out there my policy states I am not covered if:
"Any vehicle insured under this section while it is operated in, is engaged in
practice for, or is being prepared for any racing or speed contests"

Your help would be appreciated

Ed

 

[Casey]

If it was truly during instruction period and the track wasn't full of other cars, I would get someone to fight it for you that has experience fighting Ins. Co's.!

You know the rule of Ins. Co's deny coverage 1st. Then see what happens!!

 

[Ulysses]

IF there was a timing device in the car, even at a driving school, you will be denied.

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Never should have told them this happend at the track! Hindsight 20-20, but a tree story would have been better.

AC

 

[ChrisGTS]

Never should have told them this happend at the track! Hindsight 20-20, but a tree story would have been better.

AC

Sure, if you don't mind exposing yourself to being prosecuted for insurance fraud.

 

[Fiorano]

Is the car involved the blue WRX?

 

[1TONY1]

Always sign in at any driving event that could be called a school as a STUDENT....not a driver.

 

[Ulysses]

Always sign in at any driving event that could be called a school as a STUDENT....not a driver.

I second that motion. And never have a timing device installed. (If you are worried about being covered by insurance)

 

[pdmracing]

PM me I have had a cliam paid but it was a non timed event. The fact that in car transponders are used & trophies awarded, I believe that they will not cover you.

The student driver thing dosnt come into play. I know of a road atlanta instructor that had his wrx totaled & they paid right away. The problem is that Viperdays has a websight where results are posted. Ask Rockytop. Do a search & you can see his progressive hassels & law suite.

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Oh give me a brake....insurance fraud... Please! the clean livin philosphy only goes so far.

AC

 

[AndyR]

Why get someone else to pay for your accident? If it is known that your insurance will not pay for racing, and you participated in racing knowingly, than it sounds like it should be your own responsibility.

 

[VIPORXXX]

Some more info on the situation:
My son did not have a timing device in his car.
He is not part of the VRL or the Michelin Challenge series
Therefore he is not eligible for trophies, nor did he attent the
school to get one.
He asked for an instructor to be with him and he attends the
classroom sessions.

 

[PRVT JET]

Why get someone else to pay for your accident? If it is known that your insurance will not pay for racing, and you participated in racing knowingly, than it sounds like it should be your own responsibility.

Why pay for insurance if they won't cover you? I think you wouldn't be saying that if it was your car.

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

I give up...to many goodie-two-shoes around here...

I guess it's because I deal with ins. companies every day that I don't have much sympathy for them having to pay out a claim when they receive hefty premiums.

AC

 

[PRVT JET]

screw the ins. do what ever you have to do to get paid!

isaac

 

[RX VIPER]

I had this happen at Gateway International Raceway when I had my '93 RT. AAA at the time said it was a gray area, but Skip was a big help talking to my ins. company and they covered the accident. Sorry, I don't know more about State Farm. Get Skip involved.

 

[Ulysses]

Get Skip involved.

and your insurance agent should get involved too. Sounds like you have a pretty good case.

State Farm did not want to cover me as well until they got in contact with the event coordinators. They then had me fax over a copy of the agenda and a copy of the curriculum. Helped that part of the curriculum included skid pad work on how to safely handle the car under loss of control situations.

 

[jrkermode]

I also have State Farm insurance and have discussed track days extensively with my agent.

Policies likely vary from state to state, but in California, State Farm would pay for this one incident, then drop you as a client.

Being dropped is a big deal. It leaves you scrambling for a new policy and you need to answer "yes" (or lie) in response to the question "Have you ever been denied insurance?" Not good for your rates.

My advice is to eat this one, if that's still possible, and get some on track (Drivers Education) insurance for the future (americancollectorsins.com)

Timing, awards, all that stuff is inconsequential. Regular insurance ends the minute your vehicle enters the competitor area. Even the guy taking water to the corner workers is not covered.

A good rule of thumb is, if you have to sign a waiver to get there, you won't be insured once inside.

 

[Ulysses]

in California, State Farm would pay for this one incident, then drop you as a client.

My situation was similar, but they allowed me this one incident, stated that they would not cover another and would most likely me drop me if it happened again.

 

[JimT 99RT]

How many times has this been rehashed... Let's face it if you want to be insured doing this type of stuff, they would rather you do it on the public streets...

 

[rcdice]

If you think you have a claim, fight vigorously. They do have the cash. Try every angle you can, but don't flat out lie.

Anyone who thinks it's ok to wreck a car on a track and drag it to the street for the claim is playing with fire, big time. That's not a gray area, that's fraud. If you get caught, you can give your sob story to your cell mate, bubba, all day, every day. For the next five years.

 

[Big Medicine]

Insurance premiums are what's fraud. Screw 'em & I dare any to catch me.

 

[Cobra4B]

Was this the blue WRX that was bashed to hell? Sorry to see that car in that shape. I'm an auto damage adjuster for GEICO. Many companies will cover a driving "school" but then drop you right after. Being dropped is bad and will not bode well for your future rates.

All that said, I'd think you could fight it. The timing is why I was wary about the Viperdays crew putting that timing box in my car.

As for fraud... [******] I'd try it and I'm an adjuster. Most people are stupid and can't stick to a story or don't think it though. That's all I'll say.

Good luck!

 

[0260in3]

I'm an actuary for a large insurance company and am disappointed to read posts such as "screw the insurance companies" and others that recommend that drivers lie about where the accident occurred. Attitudes like that are the reason Viper insurance rates are so high for everyone else. Let's look at an example:

Assume we have 5 Viper owners, all with State Farm, and the drivers all have identical characteristics so their rates are the same. One of these owners takes their Viper to the track and has an accident. If the driver lies about where the accident occurred the premiums for all the drivers are going to go up because it will be another (non-racing) accident statistic for the Viper category.

I'm not opposed to putting Vipers on the track...I just completed my first Viper Days school at Putnam Park and had the time of my life. However, I made sure that I was ready to accept financial responsibility if something happened to my car. If you are not ready to handle the financial risks that go along with tracking your car, you should not track it.

Terry

 

[FrankBarba]

Pay out of pocket for the repairs. IT will be easier on you in the long run. Does your son have any income that he can pay for the damages? It's amazing that those who wish to take advantage of track time / driver's schools or what ever you want to call it really don't think about what could happen if something does happen. Sure its alot of fun, its a rush, but it comes down to if you can't afford to pay for any losses you shouldn't take your car on the track. This is one of the reasons why arrive & drive is gaining popularity. It's much easier to rent a Neon, Honda thats been prepped, its still fun it just doesn't cost as much if you crunch it.

 

[ViperRay]

I agree with Terry and Frank.

 

[Fiorano]

Pay out of pocket for the repairs. IT will be easier on you in the long run. Does your son have any income that he can pay for the damages? It's amazing that those who wish to take advantage of track time / driver's schools or what ever you want to call it really don't think about what could happen if something does happen. Sure its alot of fun, its a rush, but it comes down to if you can't afford to pay for any losses you shouldn't take your car on the track. This is one of the reasons why arrive & drive is gaining popularity. It's much easier to rent a Neon, Honda thats been prepped, its still fun it just doesn't cost as much if you crunch it.

I agree completely with this. I was told by a more than a few track veterans, "If you can't afford to drive your car on the track and wreck it, then don't put it on the track."

As for fraud, anyone who tries to scam the insurance companies is just playing with fire. If you get caught, most would gladly pay many times over the amount you tried to keep by lying to stay out of jail.

 

[joe117]

If you think you may be covered, ask your agent to give you a written statement saying that you would be covered in the actual track event.
Then there will be no question. If you leave it a gray area, well, getting paid will be a gray area.

Only a fool would expect street insurance to cover race track damage.

Only a fool tracks a car that he can't afford to write off.

If you can't afford to race, don't race. Calling a high speed event a "school" only changes the danger level a little. It remains a dangerous event.

You say you need to learn how to drive your high powered car safely?

It's a race school, or just a fun high speed driving day. The school part of it is minor. It's an excuse to drive fast on the track.
You think the insurance company doesn't know that?

Don't embarrass yourself by playing a game you can't afford and then crying when things go bad.

Jeez, it's hard to see this played out over and over again.

Some of you guys are making payments on your cars. You haven't even paid for the car and you want to go fast on a race track?

What are you thinking?

Get a dedicated race car that you can afford and race it. That's fun.

 

[joe117]

VIPORXXX,
"For those legal types out there my policy states I am not covered if:
"Any vehicle insured under this section while it is operated in, is engaged in
practice for, or is being prepared for any racing or speed contests"

Seriously, do you really need help with the meaning of that paragraph?

You really don't think your son comes under that paragraph?

Pay for this lesson out of your own pocket.

 

[Tiepilot]

If you think you may be covered, ask your agent to give you a written statement saying that you would be covered in the actual track event.
Then there will be no question. If you leave it a gray area, well, getting paid will be a gray area.

Only a fool would expect street insurance to cover race track damage.

Only a fool tracks a car that he can't afford to write off.

If you can't afford to race, don't race. Calling a high speed event a "school" only changes the danger level a little. It remains a dangerous event.

You say you need to learn how to drive your high powered car safely?

It's a race school, or just a fun high speed driving day. The school part of it is minor. It's an excuse to drive fast on the track.
You think the insurance company doesn't know that?

Don't embarrass yourself by playing a game you can't afford and then crying when things go bad.

Jeez, it's hard to see this played out over and over again.

Some of you guys are making payments on your cars. You haven't even paid for the car and you want to go fast on a race track?

What are you thinking?

Get a dedicated race car that you can afford and race it. That's fun.

Joe has once again pulled out the rabbit ear and unloaded both barrels of rock salt.

And what he write is exactly why I do not race my Viper, can't afford to write it off.

It's show and shine for me!