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Anyone else notice the Gen5 trolls have not been around

Discussion in 'Generation V Discussions / SRT Coupe, GTS, GTC, AC' started by 05Commemorative, Oct 10, 2014.

  1. Policy Limits

    Policy Limits Viper Owner

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    The new ACR is gonna rock! Stay tuned! Great teaser coming in two weeks to SEMA.

    And I love that it's limited production and sells like cold cakes. I love that you can't find anyone near you to let you drive it or ride in it. Exclusivity rocks! Who the hell wants a car that's seen on every corner like a Porsche or a corvette? Not this guy.
     
  2. AZTVR

    AZTVR Enthusiast

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    The main issue with driving a P-car on a daily basis is that you encounter so many at stop lights with a little fluffy white poodle hanging out the window. That would be embarrassing to be associated with. Now, to lose a drag race to someone with Fluffy sitting in their lap, would be embarassing also.

    _________________________________________________
    Jim – ‘02 GTS ACR gray/silver -- sold – ( enthusiastic custodian for 8 years )
     
  3. emericr

    emericr Enthusiast

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    Twister,
    We don't need a lesson on what mph in the 1/4 means. However you seem to forget that a quarter mile is a race against the clock, so even if mph shows that you are faster, the cars with AWD are quicker and a stock GTR or PTT will be in the 10s with regular street tires.
    I have not seen proof of a stock Gen V being in the 10s but low 11s (like a 60K hellcat) seems to be the limit for a 2WD car right now (regardless of car manufacturer)
    I don't go bragging that my trap speed is 129 with my car. Bottom line is I can't get enough traction with my RWD and my 60 time sucks.
    If anyone is interest, wannagofast is organizing a 1/2 event in January in Ocala. The Viper should do well there and hope to see some there
     
  4. SnakeBitten

    SnakeBitten Enthusiast

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    You are ranting about the wrong thing. I think everyone here knows the difference between 127 and 130mph and what that would mean in a "roll" race. You did notice that Emeric was stating 1/4 mile as to the reason he wont buy the Viper. The Viper is not going to catch that GTR, Porsche 911 turbo, Hellcat twins, Mclaren 12C/650s, Aventador, 458 Speciale etc in the 1/4 which is his performance need. No need to get bent out of shape. If its a roll race we all know its on par with the TT S and faster than the GTR and hellcat twins but it will not mess with the Aventador nor Mclaren twins up top and it doesn't need to necessarily as those cars are a bit out of its league money-wise.

    To some guys this means everything because they are not circuit track rats. A case can be made that the Viper is the wrong car for them and it would be valid but if that perceived deficiancy is costing you sales among other things then Dodge "may" want to look at that if they are still after conquest buyers. Thats the only reason I keep mentioning this aspect of it. Its obvious there are a lot of potential buyer that want that specifically in the Viper or they wont buy it. You can call them names, thumb your noses at them but their money will stay in their wallets. Owners obviously could care less about those folks as noted by many of the post on here but from a business angle I would think those buyers are important.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014
  5. Malu59RT

    Malu59RT Viper Owner

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    Bob, just wanted to point off that stability control can be completely turned off. You can't do it by pressing the ESC button multiple times, as you do when going to sport/track/rain/on. I got to the track setting, and just held down the ESC button for several seconds, and then everything was turned off. Stability and traction both off. Give it a try, hope that helps!

    I would also like to say that I am VERY happy with the traction/stability control in full on. Under WOT in a straight line, it doesn't completely kill all the fun, just cuts power very quickly to get the tires hooked and off you go again. I also punched 1st in a left hand turn at 30 mph, and the car instantly straightened up after a very small skid (I was trying to test the ESC). I will play a bit more with the settings when I am back at our runway next time.
     
  6. SnakeBitten

    SnakeBitten Enthusiast

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  7. PeerBlock

    PeerBlock Viper Owner

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    You're talking like 11s quarter mile times are somehow slow - they're not. Cutting 10s is even faster still, but that's almost entirely due to those cars' AWD systems and nothing more. You can have yourself a 10s sedan with the Audi S6 and an ECU flash...but it won't even come close to touching the Viper on a track.

    I strongly doubt that anyone who really wants a Viper is looking at the stock 1/4 mile times and deciding on a dainty porsche or fugly GT-R because the Viper is "only" doing 11s. What you're echoing is the remorseful delusion of a guy who can only afford a used camaro trying to make himself feel better about not having a car like the Viper...like he would have spent 4 times the $$$ if the Viper could manage half a second less in its ET.

    Let's also remember that on the street, for those stop light sprints, if you line up next to an AWD vehicle of even moderate power you'll be playing a game of catch-up. Yes, even a lowly Subaru STI with a few basic mods can get the jump on a Viper and very likely outrun it due to its traction advantage. Does that mean the Viper giving up sales to Subaru? I don't think so...
     
  8. FLL-B/W-GTS

    FLL-B/W-GTS Viper Owner

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    PeerBlock,how could you know one way or the other if I can shift or not.Well I will tell you after having 3 Vipers for 15 years ,I can shift with the best of them.I have just chose to do it the high tect.way...As male crap stuff,I spent 6 years in the United States Marines and have very dangerous job for the last 25,believe me I can deal with anything.......

    Cars are fun stuff,leave the personnel stuff alone......
     
  9. PeerBlock

    PeerBlock Viper Owner

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    Your assertion that the Viper needs a DCT is the problem. If you're so good at shifting then why would you not say something like, "I'd enjoy driving my Viper more if it had a DCT." I'd still mock you for it but at least it would be a sensible position.
     
  10. Torquemonster

    Torquemonster Enthusiast

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    I'm glad the Viper has a stick shift, but it should be an option not the only choice. I'm with FF-B/W-GTS, a high tech super quick shifting trans (DCT or otherwise) is going to make the car quicker in all events that involve shifting and appeal to a wider audience. Sales are the end game for SRT, and the car has the potential to sell double what it has if the trans compared to the GTR. The car would be sick with that trans in it, taking it up where it actually could track with an Aventador despite less power.

    The days of Dodge making a business case for a small annual run of manual only cars while the competition churn out less powerful but quicker cars (only by virtue of the trans) - is going to end at some point. The way things are going, we'll see an OEM 4 banger with bolt ons and tune cutting solid 10's before long.

    Let's hope the high tech trans option is picked up soon by SRT so the Viper brand can continue in the years to come to a bigger market. That's what I think anyway
     
  11. Policy Limits

    Policy Limits Viper Owner

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    Ralph Gilles said paddle shifters were in the viper's future. Let's see if they can pull out of the mess they've made and if it comes to light. Depends on if it survives or not as a model. Agree it could be an option, like the Z06. But don't take away the stick. These yuppies with dough couldn't operate a manual transmission if they wanted to. They want flappy paddles and cup holders. Lol.
     
  12. FLL-B/W-GTS

    FLL-B/W-GTS Viper Owner

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    Policy Limits and Torquemonster that is a perfect explanation of the situation....Dodge would sell all the Vipers they could make with a DCT or super fast shifting Auto....In no way should they discontinue the manual,as many still enjoy that. With this addition,the new Viper would dominate/be very competitive at the all race tracks(road race,drag strip and those 2:00am drag races in the glades)....

    RESPECT BACK.....

    I would be the first to buy one,but now a days,I have no interest in row gears or trying to launch any car at the drag strip with a manual......
     
  13. SnakeBitten

    SnakeBitten Enthusiast

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    Quite a few of us have been saying this from the begining. On other forums across the internet the same thing has been said. If it had DCT etc. I read that Ralph said paddles are in the future and I also read he said no auto will ever be in the Viper etc. Viper-heads and conquest buyers want it. DCT = a smart move by Dodge that would be a no brainer. Imho for the G5 to sell at the levels Fiat/Dodge want it to it has to appeal to more than just track guys.
     
  14. Policy Limits

    Policy Limits Viper Owner

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  15. dasvolk

    dasvolk Viper Owner

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    I owned a brand new C6 and lemon lawed it - full refund after 8 months ownership. The car scraped everywhere from the stupid transverse leaf setup being incorrectly adjusted from the factory, but that's only where it began. The car's removeable roof leaked. The chassis was such a floppy piece of crap that the roof would also pop and creak when I went up a driveway at an angle. The door panels popped off and wouldn't stay on. Even the keyless system would stop working randomly. And this was after trading in a CTS-V with terrible reliability problems for the C6 hoping for better results.

    Fast forward about 6 years, a lot of road racing, I'm looking to up my car game again, and there's lots of new and used options out there. I thought the Viper was out of reach as 100K was about my price ceiling so I was stuck with the unpleasant thought of having to buy a Z06. "Maybe GM really has changed" like the abused woman going back for more I thought, and I started reading articles about orange peel, about the LT1 letting go spectacularly, and so it was with great relief that I discovered through a friend that Chrysler repriced the languishing Gen V. I bought mine the next day actually.

    As for the car's performance, I don't know how many people here race their cars, but I do - I run a hillclimb event, and do track days all year round here in CA. I have made enough friends in the community that I have had the opportunity to properly drive some seriously fast cars. For example, I prefer the new Viper's handling characteristics to the Ferrari 458. Its steering is so precise and direct, that you can make those fine little adjustments on a bumpy but fast back road or track, things Euro car owners frequently talk about (and they're right to). It was something my POS Corvette was horrible at, despite its ability to excel when the surface was smooth. The Gen V delivers what I think is the pinnacle of the "analog" driving experience and it does it without compromising streetability.

    As a result it's funny to me to see that you guys had a bunch of bench racer trolls in here. Very few were sold so not many had a firsthand account of how good this car is. Numbers are only as good as how usable the car is, and the Gen V Viper's real party piece is its accessibility given how insanely fast it is. Do you have to know how to drive to use it? Of course - but if you need a crutch like an automatic to go fast, should you really be driving that quickly to begin with?
     
  16. Torquemonster

    Torquemonster Enthusiast

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    I guess some think I am a troll as I've not bought one yet, but I am a serious looker and have been a fan since the GTS in 96. Your post is excellent and actually has helped sway me somewhat as I have seriously been considering a C7 ZO6. I'd really like to think that SRT have the quality down on the Viper - because it is not on the Jeep. The Hellcat is very cool but is a heavy barge and not what I need when I already have a custom turbo V8 that I won't sell.

    I do take issue with your statement re non manual trans however. I do closed road events - often very twisty with blind corners, humps, drop offs etc - suffice to say you keep alert and the price of an off is high so not really an option. My C63 507 is a beautiful car for this kind of driving - the quality is top notch and the S+ shifting mode is better than manually using the paddles - just nails it 99% of the time. I think when you get over a certain power level - unless you are a died in the wool stick guy - not only is it faster to drive with a hi tech trans - it's more fun because you can focus more on what the car is doing and where you are going than trying to grab perfect shifts. On closed roads a simple mistake like letting off the clutch too quickly and deep on downshifts might throw you offline - not good if that takes you into the loose crap and there's a bank or cliff or tree. Maybe as I get older I just want the fun without having to be perfect all the time, especially with the responsibility in my case of invariably having a passenger - often my wife. In my case having an off does not mean a slide into sand - it could be serious - therefore I feel safer with one less thing to think about.

    Having said that I've just bought a 900rwhp rated T56 for my LS3 turbo - but that is only because I just cannot keep an auto alive on road racing - it gets too hot no matter what mods I've tried. To be honest I'll be a bit scared of all that torque with a manual for a while in a road race - as everything about driving that car will be different and I'll have to relearn it. eg. Instead of pointing and shooting between turns (The auto was awesome at catapulting out of turns), the pressure will be on to be near perfect at all times shifting up or down. So I'll either learn to nail it - or leave the car only for track days and street - not closed road racing. It takes a lot of seat time to get good and rowing shifts with big power on demanding courses and be good at it. I get that being a big attraction - but I want to live and have fun, and can't spend enough days at the track to get competitive against guys that have been doing this for years.... so a high tech trans would be great for people like me.

    I'm not a *****, I've driven my buddys twin turbo SRT10 and sure it is fun - intense to be more accurate.... but around a track my C63 would be right there because I can drive it to the max, and the TT SRT10 is all over the place if you try that - so you have to be very smooth, very conservative, and hold back... not as much fun except out on highway rolls etc where you can give it to it.

    I think a stock Gen 5 would be absolutely epic on track - I just would prefer an ecu controlled S+ type shift for closed roads where the stakes are so high, and once you get used to them, they're really great. I know I'm not alone.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
  17. Policy Limits

    Policy Limits Viper Owner

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    My C6 convertible top used to get stuck. The battery would die if I left it for one week. I saw it everywhere and after 20 months I has enough and got rid of it. My Hummer used to get stuck in park. Try towing a 9,000 lb vehicle. Very unimpressed with general motors and it's no surprise to me that the case against them is blowing up huge. They apparently negligently killed many people and injured many more. I hate that the Viper is often compared to the corvette. It's apples and oranges.
     
  18. BigDawg

    BigDawg Enthusiast

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    The single biggest complaint of the Gen V "trolls" was price. It was overpriced for what you got. The argument was at the asking prices it should have had more HP, bodywork, etc. Guess what happened? They kept specs the same, lowered the price to where it should be (according to trolls), and it sold.

    OP you just started a thread that positively confirms the trolls were right. If the trolls were to resurface it would just be rubbing salt in the wound that the blind followers were wrong all along. Check mate.
     
  19. Torquemonster

    Torquemonster Enthusiast

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    lol. Good point. Personally price was never a gripe for me. I think value comes down to what it is worth to you compared to what else you can get for the money. If the quality is truly reflective of a $130k sticker - then it is worth that IMO. Obviously I'm a minority on that and I just hope the discounted sales hike still turns a profit.
     
  20. dasvolk

    dasvolk Viper Owner

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    Absolutely agree on the older cars, they're scary to drive and the handling is on a knife edge. That was a bit of a dig at the auto drivers, but I am personally OK with being slower because I feel like the manual transmission is part of the experience.

    I also believe that the price change was necessary. It's an American car and rich people (I mean really rich people, not guys who make $250K/yr) have an obsession with everything rare, with a large tilt toward European. With Chrysler making this radical departure of a vehicle, they didn't stop to think that their buyer is now a different person than before. I don't think they realized that the Viper frightens people who buy Ferraris, McLarens, Lambos, etc and won't escape its reputation with them. But for people who really know cars, and shop the "hardcore" cars rather than just the straight up exotics or a specific marque, Viper V really appeals, but only if its price is commensurate with its peers. Getting out of that no-mans-land between hardcore sportscar and true (over $250-300K) exotic was the smartest move Chrysler ever made.
     
  21. SnakeBitten

    SnakeBitten Enthusiast

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    Lol at the continued name calling. I laugh at the irony of past posts saying that the G5 bashers are costing the Viper sales and turning away potential buyers because of the negativity yet those that are interested in the future of the car possibly being equipped with the options they want/need, are then relegated to being called gay, trolls, kids with no money (I'm sure far worse names via PM) and other colorful names by owners because they didnt make the purchase and dared to voice their opinion on what would make the car more suited to them. Hopefully Dodge doesnt share the view exhibited here of its past and potential future customers who didn't buy the car for the reasons they have laid out here etc.

    Bigdawg:2tu:
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  22. PDCjonny

    PDCjonny Enthusiast

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    There are still 385+ Vipers on cars.com, the bulk of which are way overpriced GTS's even with the 15k kickback. The cars that are selling are under 100K, and most substantially under.
    Those are going to sit forever, unless dealers just fire sale them at giveaway prices. NOBODY is paying 125K for any Viper today and that's what many of them are still at.

    I made an inquiry at a Dodge dealer (former sponsoring dealer here) on their bottom line price for a particular GTS. They gave me a long worded answer about how this particular car had a "lot of interest" etc blah blah. They shot me their bottom line price as a loyal four time Viper owner.

    I go on EBay and there's the car listed by the dealer, at 4K less than my quote. They'll never change.
     
  23. 05Commemorative

    05Commemorative Viper Owner

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    That is always how it has worked in car sales. If you are truly interested and serious, just give them your serious offer of the price you want to pay and have them give you a Yes or No. That is the only way to find out.

     
  24. Policy Limits

    Policy Limits Viper Owner

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    The fun will really pick up once the airbag recall goes out next week. Lol. Quality control is a big issue too. Wouldn't be surprised if I never bought American again. The only thing worse than dealing with trolls is talking about how they're not around when they're not around.....just sayin
     
  25. WANTED

    WANTED Viper Owner

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    and the resale value on that 85k purchase is what? just asking
     
  26. dasvolk

    dasvolk Viper Owner

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    No one who uses these things cares
     
  27. Paul Hawker

    Paul Hawker Viper Owner

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    Instead of just looking at the numbers, another way to justify a car is the enjoyment it will bring to the owner. Vipers are some of the most fun and enjoyable driving experiences available for under $100,000 today.

    Vipers offer a direct connection between a driver and his car that is missing in the computer controlled all wheel drive, automatic tranmissioned high performance cars. For some of those, you might get even faster performance with the driver totally out of the car, and the computer itself just driving it down the track. Much less driver involvement.

    One of the greatest joys is in getting a Viper to hook up just perfectly, and launch out of the hole like a rocket. You then need to get the 1-2 shift just perfect, and than you can relax just a little bit more, as the car is easier in the 2nd 1/2 of the quarter. Then you are keeping focused trying to get the highest possible trap speed.

    This involvement is one of the prides of ownership that is missing in many of the other automated cars.

    If you are driving for the numbers, usually you just need to put on the stickiest tires possible and let the computer do all the rest, however if you are the kind of person that feels that the driver gets the best out of the experience when he is using all his skills and talents, then maybe the VIper is the better car after all.

    For street and track driving, the driver involvement gives many of us the greatest enjoyment. We can drive home after a weekend on the road course, and celebrate our personal best, and know that it is due to us honing our driving skills, rather than just downloading the newest software.

    For many Viper drivers, the joy is more in the driving experience that the car provides. Around the lunch table at events you will find most of us telling about how much fun we had on the ride, and the experiences we shared, and few worry about a couple 1/10s of a second.
     
  28. PeerBlock

    PeerBlock Viper Owner

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    Since when was the Viper ever a drag car? If all you want to do is to go fast in a straight line for a few seconds at a time then it hardly matters whether your in a viper or a minivan. It's about as much of a stretch to call drag racing "racing" as it is to call participating in video game tournaments a "sport". If you think about it, both are things fat guys do.

    Someday you'll wake up and realize that consensus among people spouting off on the internet is somewhere between worthless and pointless. The lack of an auto trans is not what's keeping the Viper's sales low. It's a general lack of advertising. Even as we speak there are plenty of people who still don't know the Gen 5 exists and is for sale. There are plenty of potential buyers that would snap up a Gen 5 at its original MSRP if they were aware.

    Like many words, "troll" is tossed around without much thought. Somebody says something another doesn't like, one must be a troll. It's just a manifestation of stupid. Trolls are people who say stuff like "Vipers suck because my honda has 200 HP per liter and the viper needs 10 cylinders to make power", or Jack B who fabricates viper problems then pretends to solve them by wrapping his engine in foil and duck tape.

    That's what the stability control feature helps with. Manual trans puts the tach in the middle for a reason...you drive by revs and should already be in the appropriate gear before you are off the brakes. Paddle shifters are a crutch...let's not confuse convenience with necessity. If safety is a concern then buy a racing game for playstation or xbox and replace the car entirely with tech.

    Next thing we'll have people whining about the lack of rear seats, the noisy engine, the cabin heat...so we'll need to make the viper longer for the seats, quieter so it doesn't disturb your delicate sensibilities, more padding to keep the heat outside and what else? More cup holders? Why stop with DCT...because there are so few cars with paddle shifters out there, right?

    Except that you're not entirely driving the C63, you're relying on tech crutches to make up for your lack of skill. Nothing wrong with not being good at something, but there's a lot of wrong in believing you're good at something when you need tech assists and nannies to 'enable' your abilities. One of the defining traits of the Viper the sense of danger and unease you get when behind the wheel due to it having more power on tap than the average rich middle-aged guy can control.

    You're missing a basic psychological element that's at play. After pricing it high, then offering it at a discount the perceived value increases as most people process that as getting a $120K car for under $120K. If the original MSRP was sub-$100K it would likely have experienced the same sales performance due to a pitiful marketing and advertising campaign.

    Yes, yes...let all these 'potential viper buyers' tell us how if the viper was like the 911 they would have bought it. What they're saying is that the Viper is not the car for them. Plain and simple. It was never meant to be a car with mass appeal in terms of buyers. All name-calling in that sense is well deserved by the recipients.
     
  29. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    Well, this thread certainly reminds me of old times here. Still have guys nut-swinging Porsches, crying for automatics because they are in denial about driver ability, and racing magazines instead of cars. LOL
     
  30. FLL-B/W-GTS

    FLL-B/W-GTS Viper Owner

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    Ya Nine Ball,I will bet, 6 months out YOU(like many more) will be driving one of those super fast shifting new ZO6s running easy 10 second passes all day long.Just think,that will give you months again to run one very high 10 second pass again in a Gen 5 with drag radials...You did a great job and are way above average than the average test and tuner driver.So,that pass was a Exception after a lot of work. You know, as well as I do ,it is ok to use the most modern advances to win a race weather it is in a Turbo S,GTR ,Mclaren or future Z06....A win is a win...

    If you were in the South Florida Area I would love do some passes with you at the drag strip against my 991/911 Turbo S or a roll out run....But,you are not and all my friends/others with Vipers always have excuses and will not bring a Gen.5 out to the drag strip...


    As for Vipers Not being a drag racer ,go to Drag Times and you will hundreds of people drag race Vipers all the time....That is just a excuse for some now a days for the Gen.5 not being able to run with the best ET s that high tect HP cars now produce...
     

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