Bone Stock SRT in the 10's?

[KenricGTS]

No one is saying you would not pick up MPH and lower ET but put these BEST DRIVERs you speak of on any track in the country in any weather you want and they still will not run 10s in a stock GEN 4 Viper.

I agree there are great drag racers out there! No question!

 

[vipeuup]

No one is saying you would not pick up MPH and lower ET but put these BEST DRIVERs you speak of on any track in the country in any weather you want and they still will not run 10s in a stock GEN 4 Viper.

That would be the same for the ZR1. Alot of people had a hard time trying to do it and the modded ones were the only ones doing it.

 

[FastestBusaAround]

You sir are the newby around here and have joined in with one of the best known anti-Viper guys around. No one has said that the Viper would win. We were contesting the spread that 1really bad states. And has stated over 1000 times on these pages. He has also contested in the past that weather or pressure has anything to do with trap speed based on his runs in ancient times (which he will bring up over and over again as proof of his personal superiority). So If I came down on you it was because it looked for all intents and purposes that you were his namesake. I can see now that you are not as you have the art of spelling down. Whereas 1BADMOFO cannot spell for anything. And has the logic of a child, making logical argumentation a total waste of time.

You completely missed the point of the low mileage. It was not to indicate the Viper would win. It was that an evaluation before break-in only proves what a non broken in car will do. It does not say much about what would happen later. Way too much variation in new, un broken in condition. For both vehicles.

By the way, using names as you indicated is cause for removal from this site. Keep it up and someone will catch on. Ask 1Baad. He has been reminded many times about his poor internet behavior.

Fair enough - I am, yes...but I have nothing to do with anyone on the site, nor have I joined rank or met with anyone here in particular, except Jamie, who's car I purchased.

That being said, I also take note of the name I used, but am not sure that the term "****" would be any more appropriate under the same circumstances...

As far as the rest of the topic of discussion goes - yes, I get it and recognize that I/C engines are affected by the environmental conditions, but my point was in fact, that even simple physics dictate that the ZR1 would always beat a Viper...regardless of "DA" being ideal, or not, whatever may be the case. Yes, to get a true test, both vehicles should be at the same track simultaneously - but when Furman says that he felt that there wasn't much else left in the Viper as opposed to the ZR1, after his runs and regardless of air conditions, I take that as being closer to the mark then not.

The KISS principle rules here for me. When one tends to over-analyze things, the picture becomes too distorted to make any sense; IOW, here's a guy who can drive - and probably better than anyone on these or the Vette boards...and he's proven that more than once. He said in no uncertain terms, that the ZR1 has more left in it and is faster than the Viper...and I have to believe that like guys who consistently run the same times on the same vehicles over and over again...well they really are in some way connected with the vehicle - and that they really can tell whether or not the vehicle's the issue or the driver. I have a friend who rides his ZX14 in the 8's all day long with times so consistent that he can tell exactly why one run might be just a few 10ths off, as opposed to the next or previous one.

When Jamie said he felt there was basically nothing left in the car, to me, there was nothing left. Furthermore, with both cars having 200 miles on them, give or take 10%, in my mind, that's close enough. Yes, more engine time will bring slightly more power to the table until full potential is reached in both cases, but he had the same fair or unfair advantage in both cars, minus the DA, which he felt would have minimal impact in any case.

 

[1BADGTS]

Fair enough - I am, yes...but I have nothing to do with anyone on the site, nor have I joined rank or met with anyone here in particular, except Jamie, who's car I purchased.

That being said, I also take note of the name I used, but am not sure that the term "****" would be any more appropriate under the same circumstances...

As far as the rest of the topic of discussion goes - yes, I get it and recognize that I/C engines are affected by the environmental conditions, but my point was in fact, that even simple physics dictate that the ZR1 would always beat a Viper...regardless of "DA" being ideal, or not, whatever may be the case. Yes, to get a true test, both vehicles should be at the same track simultaneously - but when Furman says that he felt that there wasn't much else left in the Viper as opposed to the ZR1, after his runs and regardless of air conditions, I take that as being closer to the mark then not.

The KISS principle rules here for me. When one tends to over-analyze things, the picture becomes too distorted to make any sense; IOW, here's a guy who can drive - and probably better than anyone on these or the Vette boards...and he's proven that more than once. He said in no uncertain terms, that the ZR1 has more left in it and is faster than the Viper...and I have to believe that like guys who consistently run the same times on the same vehicles over and over again...well they really are in some way connected with the vehicle - and that they really can tell whether or not the vehicle's the issue or the driver. I have a friend who rides his ZX14 in the 8's all day long with times so consistent that he can tell exactly why one run might be just a few 10ths off, as opposed to the next or previous one.

When Jamie said he felt there was basically nothing left in the car, to me, there was nothing left. Furthermore, with both cars having 200 miles on them, give or take 10%, in my mind, that's close enough. Yes, more engine time will bring slightly more power to the table until full potential is reached in both cases, but he had the same fair or unfair advantage in both cars, minus the DA, which he felt would have minimal impact in any case.

Very well put.

 

[vipeuup]

I dont think anyone realizes how close both cars really are in the quarter mile. Alot of chest beating and brand loyalty happening here. Thats the real distortion.

 

[1BADGTS]

That would be the same for the ZR1. Alot of people had a hard time trying to do it and the modded ones were the only ones doing it.

Exactly no matter the make ,you can have a track thats BELOW SEA LEVEL on the BEST AIR DAY POSSIBLE and the numbers indicate its very very hard to do .I mean we tried with my Gen 4 twice and the best we got was 11.3 at 129.7 (which is a long way from 10s ).Smith felt a 10 second run was possible BUT very improbable.As Jamie stated earlyier cold dense air thats great for power leads to major traction issues with a cold track ect so the track prep is critical.

 

[1BADGTS]

I dont think anyone realizes how close both cars really are in the quarter mile. Alot of chest beating and brand loyalty happening here. Thats the real distortion.[/QUOTE ] So true- all of them (Z06 Gen 4 Zr-1 ) are within 2 tenths .A good driver in the Z06 will easily beat an average driver in the Viper of Zr-1.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Yes, but why here at the VCA web site. Every, and I do mean every time a posting is made about a Viper drag race time a few people (and 1Bad is the absolute most proficient at it) just have to chime in and say so and so is faster or that the Corvette XYZ is faster. They just cannot let this be a Viper oriented board.

That is the chest beating that bothers many of us and, at least for me, makes those posters that only have that to promote a complete waste of band width.

As far as the ZR1 and Viper at any place and at any time it is a drivers race.

 

[vipeuup]

I dont think anyone realizes how close both cars really are in the quarter mile. Alot of chest beating and brand loyalty happening here. Thats the real distortion.[/QUOTE ] So true- all of them (Z06 Gen 4 Zr-1 ) are within 2 tenths .A good driver in the Z06 will easily beat an average driver in the Viper of Zr-1.

Vice versa Yes.

 

[1BADGTS]

Yes, but why here at the VCA web site. Every, and I do mean every time a posting is made about a Viper drag race time a few people (and 1Bad is the absolute most proficient at it) just have to chime in and say so and so is faster or that the Corvette XYZ is faster. They just cannot let this be a Viper oriented board.

That is the chest beating that bothers many of us and, at least for me, makes those posters that only have that to promote a complete waste of band width.

As far as the ZR1 and Viper at any place and at any time it is a drivers race.

The problem is ONE BAD has not owned a Vette since 1992 and since that time ONE BAD has owned more Vipers than you can count .One Bad was also one of the first EVER VCA members dating back to 1995 (WERE YOU- THINK NOT ).Its too damn bad for you if you dont like the fact that i chime in as a matter of fact NOW that i know it really bothers you i will be sure to do it more.

 

[FastestBusaAround]

I dont think anyone realizes how close both cars really are in the quarter mile. Alot of chest beating and brand loyalty happening here. Thats the real distortion.

To be clear, and and regardless of whoever this was directed at, I own both an '08 SRT10 and an '08 Z06, both of which I love driving equally. While I've never been brand loyal, I have to give credit where credit is due...each of these cars can be considered as being in an equal class. Each have their pro's and con's...and the fact that I can make the choice of deciding which one to drive on any given day is one that I'm ecstatically content with. For me, the choice to buy the roadster was simple. Owning a Z and deciding that I wanted a Vert was a simple decision. What else could I buy in a high power Vert that would equal the power and prowess of a Z? The SRT Vert was the only logical choice - I don't particularly like the Vette Vert, and it's not a powerhouse like the Viper, not does it have the classic lines or appeal of the Viper. Some (many here) may be brand loyal, but respect has to be given where due, and each of these monsters deserves equal respect, though the Viper will bite and bite hard with anything less than complete and total respect.

BTW - it's a bit less of a drivers (drag) race than one might think, IMO - as it has been said here quite often that the Viper just isn't geared for the quarter mile, whereas the Z06 was, even more so than the ZR1. A 323 or 355 rear end would certainly get it there though...but that's not the reality of the current model. The Busa and the ZX14 are in fact bikes that more closely lend themselves to the statement of "drivers race". By many accounts here, getting the Viper into the 11's is far more rare than getting the Z's or ZR1's there. It takes a far more skilled driver to achieve 11's/10's in a Viper than in a Vette.

 

[GR8_ASP]

The problem is ONE BAD has not owned a Vette since 1992 and since that time ONE BAD has owned more Vipers than you can count .One Bad was also one of the first EVER VCA members dating back to 1995 (WERE YOU- THINK NOT ).Its too damn bad for you if you dont like the fact that i chime in as a matter of fact NOW that i know it really bothers you i will be sure to do it more.

Well you would never know the vette aspect by the way you post.

As to Viper club I was a member of MCVO before VCA existed. And I have purchased all of my Vipers new. So on that count you are clearly wrong. Not the first time nor will it be the last.

 

[FastestBusaAround]

I can't comment on other things he posts, but the simple fact that he hasn't owned a Vette since 92 lends more credence to the idea that he's NOT brand loyal or Vette-happy...

 

[1BADGTS]

I can't comment on other things he posts, but the simple fact that he hasn't owned a Vette since 92 lends more credence to the idea that he's NOT brand loyal or Vette-happy...

Thank You, the simple fact that iam a multiple generation Viper owner escapes some because i happen to appreciate all brands of high perf cars.Over the years thru my relationship with the MAG GUYS i have been exposed to alot of these cars run in controlled testing environments by some really great drivers .It really appears that brand loyality obscures the truth for MANY on this forum and that is a shame.

 

[FastestBusaAround]

I've said it before here - and I agree with that, after all, they're all great cars! Why can't we all just get along and just continue blowing up foreign countries together?

 

[vipeuup]

To be clear, and and regardless of whoever this was directed at, I own both an '08 SRT10 and an '08 Z06, both of which I love driving equally. While I've never been brand loyal, I have to give credit where credit is due...each of these cars can be considered as being in an equal class. Each have their pro's and con's...and the fact that I can make the choice of deciding which one to drive on any given day is one that I'm ecstatically content with. For me, the choice to buy the roadster was simple. Owning a Z and deciding that I wanted a Vert was a simple decision. What else could I buy in a high power Vert that would equal the power and prowess of a Z? The SRT Vert was the only logical choice - I don't particularly like the Vette Vert, and it's not a powerhouse like the Viper, not does it have the classic lines or appeal of the Viper. Some (many here) may be brand loyal, but respect has to be given where due, and each of these monsters deserves equal respect, though the Viper will bite and bite hard with anything less than complete and total respect.

BTW - it's a bit less of a drivers (drag) race than one might think, IMO - as it has been said here quite often that the Viper just isn't geared for the quarter mile, whereas the Z06 was, even more so than the ZR1. A 323 or 355 rear end would certainly get it there though...but that's not the reality of the current model. The Busa and the ZX14 are in fact bikes that more closely lend themselves to the statement of "drivers race". By many accounts here, getting the Viper into the 11's is far more rare than getting the Z's or ZR1's there. It takes a far more skilled driver to achieve 11's/10's in a Viper than in a Vette.

This isnt your average Subaru STI versus Mitsubishi Evolution battle. Because of the big price difference like what Bushido was saying. So alot of respect has to be given to the viper convertible and more respect that it can run right with the ZR1 with taller gears .

 

[1BADGTS]

I've said it before here - and I agree with that, after all, they're all great cars! Why can't we all just get along and just continue blowing up foreign countries together?

Interesting story i have been racing with Jamie dating back to VCA Zone Events in 1998.One year at Englishtown he showed up with one of Jason Heffners first ever cars,a prototype supercharged GEN 2 Viper(LONG before there were Paxton kits ) running 10s EASILY on Pilots in near 100 degree weather making 550 to the tire.As big of a shock as it is today think of what it was like 10 plus years ago.

 

[Twister]

Give me some time..because it is much closer than most think..Im working on a list of 2008 Viper VRS ZR1

So far it seems that stock for stock they are nearly identical....

This is nonthing like the stock C6Z06 list vs stock gen3 Viper list were the Z06 guys average 11.7 at 124 and the Viper guys average 12.0 at 120..In this case it is VERY clear that stock for stock the C6Z06 is faster than the gen3 Viper...

It's just gonna take some time....

 

[1fast400]

Interesting story i have been dating Jamie dating since VCA Zone Events in 1998.

This explains so much.

 

[Darbgnik]

I can't comment on other things he posts, but the simple fact that he hasn't owned a Vette since 92 lends more credence to the idea that he's NOT brand loyal or Vette-happy...

I don't think it has to do with brand loyalty, some people just like to argue.





And after being told by hand a few times in person, it's easier and safer to do online.

 

[Twister]

Man Im haveing a hard time getting the information as many forums were hit with a virus and are VERY SLOW...

While Im working on it heres some other fast list...


*****C6Z06 FAST LIST CREATED BY CORVETTE FORUM*****

1----10.981 @ 128.90--1.77---jamie furman
2----11.138 @ 127.20--1.76---Ranger
3----11.198 @ 123.75--1.81---walterm32
4----11.242 @ 122.38--1.68---Dr.Ron
5----11.311 @ 122.89--1.80---BLU-BY-U
6----11.349 @ 124.97--1.75---zosix427
7----11.392 @ 124.84--1.92--- C5 Frank
8----11.429 @ 124.88--1.86---dgdoc
9----11.443 @ 125.93--1.95---O7zeeO6
10---11.458 @ 124.13--1.80--- layjzay
11---11.488 @ 123.86--1.80---Z06kait
12---11.545 @ 123.16--1.83---dpracing
13---11.554 @ 124.13--1.86---jtfx
14---11.557 @ 126.68--1.95---Incon306
15---11.560 @ 124.53--1.85---Zlicious
16---11.627 @ 121.67--1.83---BLK BZT
17---11.638 @ 122.46--1.88---Chempwr
18---11.641 @ 120.71--1.78--- svt2z06
19---11.687 @ 121.41--1.97---linuxrepublican
20---11.695 @ 122.44--1.93---vredvet
21---11.705 @ 126.13--2.12---dpracing
22---11.709 @ 121.41--1.86---JWGJR
23---11.991 @ 122.52--1.96---cr133r

 

[Twister]

*****2003-2006 GEN3 list Created By Me*****

GEN 3

SpeedFreak.2006Vert...11.5...122.6mph

ViperJim......2003Vert...11.5...121mph

JustinBell....2003Vert...11.7...123.6mph
Motor Trend: Speeding! Top-Speed Shootout

JohnMyrick....2003Vert...11.8...122.9mph

UtahViper.....2003Vert...11.8...119mph

Outfan2929....2003Vert....11.8...119mph

RickMay.......2004Vert...11.9...123mph

Eagle..........2004Vert...11.9....123mph

Dman..........2003vert...11.9...122.3mph

Hamrhead......2006Coupe..11.9...122mph

Ulllose.......2003Vert...11.9...121mph

Boosted349..2006Coupe.12.0 at 121 mph

TomDickson....2004Vert...12.0...118mph

MrJ...........2003Vert...12.2...120mph

RickMartino...2003Vert...12.1...118mph

IvanHo........2003Vert...12.2...119mph

Omore001...2006Coupe..12.4 at 121 mph

 

[jamie furman]

GR8 you are very correct. I live a mile high and the best drivers run a full second to 9 tenths slower up here. I ran a 12.2 with my Paxton up here that is like a 11.2 sea level. I only had two runs in. I think I could've gotten her in the 11s. 11s up here would be 10s sea level. Jamie what is your best time with the GTR? I would like to know how well they run in the 1/4. Also you should get a Whipple for your GT you will love it!

I took my GTR out for the first time about 2 weeks ago, its best run for me was 11.58 at about 119 which I thought was pretty good. In good air with better traction than we had the day I went out I think it will go 11.4's no problem which is pretty fast in my book. I know I would probably like the performance of the whipple but I don't really care for the look of it and I have heard with the extra boost they push a little oil after a while, and for what I use my car for (pleasure and an occasional track day) the pulley is good enough for me as it has run 10.6 at 136mph on the stock tires and just the pulley. To be honest with you the reason I don't usually mod my cars is because I don't race on the street and only go to drag strip a few times a year so they are fast enough for me as delivered and I don't ever get a check engine light and if something goes wrong, I don't usually have any warranty issues either. I have more fun trying to extract every tenth and mph I can out of the factory issue as I feel anyone can build something fast it just takes a little money, and if you have more hp than the other guy technically you should win with all things being equal. But to make a stock car go faster than another stock car, well that comes down to driver skill and for me thats a lot more fun!

 

[jamie furman]

Come on Jaime.

08-09 Viper convertibles
Find Your Car: Dodge Viper Listings Near Monterey, CA 93940 - AutoTrader.com

08-09 ZR1s
Find Your Car: Chevrolet Corvette Listings Near Monterey, CA 93940 - AutoTrader.com


Now, I never said that the Viper convertible was faster than the corvette, but it's right up there not far behind it. IMO, I think that the ZR1 is defitnetly in a class of it's own. Due to the significant price difference..

Well I didn't realize you said compare used cars to new ones? New to new their msrp is very close, I can't help it if no one but a few of us on this forum want Vipers and thats why they can't sell them so they have to discount them so brutally! As far as performance I think the Viper, Z06 and ZR1 are all very close and excellent performers, but there can only be (1 fastest) and that is why the ZR1 is in a class of its own, because it is the fastest!

 

[KenricGTS]

Jamie, that makes sense. I just love power thats why I mod all my cars even just a little. With my Whipple I have no issues at all. And the power is night and day from a pulley and tune. Mine ran a 11.0 at 136 a mile high. On stock tires. With you driving at sea level I bet you could get 9.9s 9.8s! Have Jason let you drag one I bet you could be in the high 9s!

 

[KenricGTS]

They only let me run that one run. NHRA requires roll bar ect. So they kicked me out,but she had 10s in her I think 10.8s up here in the thin air.

 

[jamie furman]

Jamie, that makes sense. I just love power thats why I mod all my cars even just a little. With my Whipple I have no issues at all. And the power is night and day from a pulley and tune. Mine ran a 11.0 at 136 a mile high. On stock tires. With you driving at sea level I bet you could get 9.9s 9.8s! Have Jason let you drag one I bet you could be in the high 9s!

Theres no doubt that thing must really rock! I used to race a lot and modded all my cars and after wasting thousands and thousands of dollars and many broken parts, rears , trannys, and engines and multiple headaches I have had my fill so I am done with that for the most part. I am thinking about buyiing a TT Gallardo as I think that would be a cool car to have all that hp with a paddle shifter as I am really getting tired of 6 speed cars. I think where a person lives and their age also plays a big role in if or how much you like to mod your cars. On the east coast any good driver could take a new stock Viper, Z06 or ZR1 bolt on drag tires and run 10's. For me thats good enough but at high altitude you need to mod the car to make up for the lost hp and when a guy is younger he tends to put more emphasis on being the baddest guy out there and stock won't get it done if he wants to be the fastest and have bragging rights, so he has to mod his car! But don't get me wrong, I realize guys of all ages like to mod their cars but I think as you get older priorities change and what you thought was so important earlier in life just isn't anymore. The older I get the more I realize there is always someone with more hp and a faster car and I can't beat them all so I am not going to waste anymore of my money chasing anyone! I like to road race more nowadays and at 600hp my ACR doesn't need more hp, its got enough! My ACR needs a better driver so I prefer to spend my money on brakes and practice at driving schools and DE's.

 

[KenricGTS]

Jamie thats cool man! For me its not being the fastest I just like power. Road racing is humbling and expensive but fun! I would love to see pics of that L88! Nice collection man!