Car won't start - I'm stumped

[Bonkers]

Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Turned the key but the car refused to go. Battery is
new and charged, all wires appear to be in place. No
check engine light on. Good fuel, good wires and plugs.
I drove about 300 miles two weeks ago in downpouring
rain and she's been sitting outside in the new rain
since. I don't see any wet spots under the hood or car.

I swapped over to the Mopar PCM before the last trip
(and she ran fine,) but other than that I've been
suffering with a low horsepower issue since I bought
it. I've looked at everything and I know she's getting
spark and fuel.

 

[jdoc7]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Can you hear the fuel pump when you turn on the ignition? If not, check the fuel pump fuse and relay in the trunk, driver's side next to the amplifier. Mess around with the key fob. Your alarm may be screwy causing the ignition to cut.

 

[Bonkers]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Hmmm.... good call. I never even notcied that fuse box
back there - it was filled with water. I'll let that dry
overnight and try again once the connections are dry.
Hopefully it's just a short. Thanks for the quick responce.

 

[kcobean]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Your Viper is sitting out in the rain!?!?!?!?! Sweet Jesus man what's wrong with you?

 

[twinturbo3150]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Your Viper is sitting out in the rain!?!?!?!?! Sweet Jesus man what's wrong with you?

new meaning of touchless carwash!!!

 

[Joseph Dell]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

pull a spark plug out and crank the car w/ it near a ground. see if you have spark. also, the VEC2's are pretty tempermental at times... try bypassing temporarily and see if it starts. the crank position sensor wire (both in and out ) of the VEC2 may be suspect.

good luck!

JD

 

[big-n-italian]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Can you hear the fuel pump when you turn on the ignition? If not, check the fuel pump fuse and relay in the trunk, driver's side next to the amplifier. Mess around with the key fob. Your alarm may be screwy causing the ignition to cut.

LMAO

listen to jdoc, he KNOWS THIS scenario ALL TOO WELL!!

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

More detail - make sure the fuel pump runs long enough to actually deliver fuel to the engine. If the check valve fails/leaks and drains the fuel line, it'll take many many seconds of cranking to refill, let alone start the car. While you crank, the pump is cycling on and off, so don't think 100% of cranking time = 100% of fuel pump run time. You can test this with the key-on-key-off technique, looking for fuel in the check valve on the manifold.

instructions

link to image

 

[GTSnake]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Hmmm.... good call. I never even notcied that fuse box
back there - it was filled with water. I'll let that dry
overnight and try again once the connections are dry.
Hopefully it's just a short. Thanks for the quick responce.

Wow how did that much water get into your trunk? I would say that's the most likely culprit.

You may want to cover it up when you park it.

 

[Rizzo]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

A Viper...sitting outside in the rain...... for 2 weeks.....???? This just isnt right. You need to build a garage fast. I have to go now. I can't see the screen anymore because of the tears rolling down my face. ha ha. Isn't there a law about leaving Vipers outside?

 

[ViperTony]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

I drove about 300 miles two weeks ago in downpouring
rain and she's been sitting outside in the new rain
since. I don't see any wet spots under the hood or car.

Wow. There should be allow against this. DVO (Department of Viper Owners) should come remove your car from this abusive situation.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Pppphhhhhttttt on all of you garage queens. All you're doing is saving your car for me later.

Bonkers, just drill a hole in the trunk floor so the water can't collect.

 

[Bonkers]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

I am in absolute awe of the amount of water collected
inside the trunk. I used a shop vac to get 2.5 gallons
out (not including what was soaked into my glove,
carpet, and rain towel) and this is three days after
the last heavy rain. I still cannot get the car
started so I am assuming it is the above mentioned
fuse. I'll replace it tomorrow and see what shakes
loose. The big question is where the water came from
though - I took a hose to the rear hatch seal and not
a drop slipped through that I could find.

Hopefully I can get this sorted before the cruise this
weekend as she's off the road for the winter on Nov 5th.
Like to get that last ride in before the ice starts
forming.

 

[kcobean]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Wow that's a lot of water. When you say "not a drop slipped through" does this mean that the carpet remained dry after the hose test, or that you couldn't visually see the water entering the car? I've wondered as I wash my car where the drain holes go to. I suspect they go to some type of rubber drain hose or something, but cannot confirm. If I'm correct, then maybe one of those rubber drain hoses is disconnected, and the water is coming in behind the interior rather than through the seal.

I'll see you on the weekend!

 

[ViperJohn]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Glad it's not the PCM.....

 

[Bonkers]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Glad it's not the PCM.....

Well I won't lie and say it didn't cross my mind.

Kcobean - so far she's still not starting so I may
end up missing this weekend. If I don't get repeatable
results by Thursday I'm not going to take the chance
of driving three hours. Hopefully I'll get this sorted
by then.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

I'm no Gen 2 expert, but there are both relays and fuses in the back? And only the relay to run the fuel pump matters right now (the others are for the heated glass, etc.) A quick look in the service manual would tell you; I am only suggesting this to find which wires to jump to ensure the fuel pump runs. After that, any issue with the fuses or relays in the trunk isn't what is keeping the engine from running.

 

[C O D Y]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

I'm going with fuel pump relay fuse. I had mine blow when I charged the battery. It's in the back near the amp.

 

[PSilverGTS]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

I had water in my hatch area (mostly in the spare tire area). Water came in on the passenger side upper corner. Double check your hatch seal. I sealed the space between the seal and the body with black RTV and clear flowable silcone. The GTS had leaks in other areas that I also fixed. Now there are no leaks. With the exception of using a car cover occasionally, my Viper lives outside exposed to nature. It has held up well for two years.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Gee, well I know a few cars I would never consider buying or recommending. I would treat a dog better than you guys treat your Vipers (you know at least a dog house).

 

[RAYSIR]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Pppphhhhhttttt on all of you garage queens. All you're doing is saving your car for me later.

Bonkers, just drill a hole in the trunk floor so the water can't collect.

Never did see in this post that the starter was even turning over. Dang, Why waste your time with a drill?? Why not just use a couple 9 mm right between the rear shocks??
Man no one up here would leave a nice car out over winter. Too many inside storage areas then we park our drivers in the garage. It's obvious someone can't afford the car.

 

[Bonkers]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

It's obvious someone can't afford the car.

You can blow me noob...


Tom and CODY, I think there is something more going on. I
re-charged the battary and now the engine just very slowly
cranks, but it doesn't click. I'm not sure about the fuel
relay (none of the local stealerships have a replacement in
stock) but I won't have new one until at the very least
tomorrow. In the meantime I've pulled all the fuses and
relays and nothing else looks out of place - hopefully I'm
wrong. I'm recharging my spare optima tonight to use as a
jump tomorrow.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

You can always force the fuel pump on by jumping from A12 14RD/WT* to A141 16DG/WT*. The feed wire is always hot, even key off.

> we park our drivers <

Seems like a contradictory statement to me.

 

[Bonkers]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Well, according to both of my local mopar parts
slingers (and the AutoZone/napa/ect... stores)
this relay doesn't exist anymore. Does anyone have
an alternative part number or possible relay
substitution?

 

[mad0953]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Man no one up here would leave a nice car out over winter. Too many inside storage areas then we park our drivers in the garage. It's obvious someone can't afford the car.

How can you say something like that without having a clue about the whole thing? I think it would be smart to park anything inside in Alaska, but to each his own. While I wouldn't leave my car outside it's no big deal if someone else does and whether they can afford the car or not should be none of your concern. Are you LesPaul56's brother or something??

 

[Steve-Indy]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Bonkers, by my recollection, the fuel pump relay runs along the margin of the truck opening where the front edge of the trunk lid meets the body when closed...tucked up high...noting that this relay is on a "y" at this point on Gen I cars (including your Gen 1.5).
It also seems to me that when I ordered a spare a couple of years ago, it came paired in a bracket...removed one relay and the other was good to go.

NO dealers in Indy had these relays in stock...had to order same. Will try to find the part number.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Well, Bonkers. I'm holding a Gen I fuel pump relay in my hand...called a dual relay on the D-C packing slip...Part number from the Mopar box says 04643528. As noted, you remove ONE of these relays from the metal bracket, and you have YOUR relay...noting that it has 4 contact blades on it...NOT 6 as seen on a Gen II relay.

If you can't find one...call me...as I seem to have more than one pair in my "spares" cabinet...I HATE to see a Viper down !!!

 

[jdoc7]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

It's obvious someone can't afford the car.

WOW, that's just a mean thing to say!

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Steve, I think Mistress is a '99 Gen 2.

Bonkers, my Gen 1 service manual shows a different part number for the fuel pump relay compared to other relays but the shape of the receptacle is the same. If it fits, I would suggest that trying your air conditioner relay in place of the fuel pump relay would get you going.

 

[Bonkers]

Re: Car won\'t start - I\'m stumped

Yes, Mistress is a Gen2. I have a call into Tator, but
all things considered I think my season is over now. I'll
reply here if I find something other than the relay.