Cooling System Acting Up

[DrumrBoy]

I think this may be an air-in-the-system problem that burping would correct but since its never happened to me before, I figured I'd consult the experts.

Ran the car at a track event this weekend....everything fine. Temp gauge stayed right where it always does, at the rightmost of the three lines at 190.

OK, now I drive home in fifth gear at 70 and the thing starts moving quickly to 245.....a couple of times it seemed like the thermostat opened and brough the temp back to 190 but it wouldn't stay there so I pulled over, let it cool and noticed the overflow reservior was empty.

Filled the overflow res, started it up and the overflow reservoir emptied into the raditaor. Filled it up two more times and now everything seems fine. Car runs right at the third 190 line.

So, I'm wondering if this is:

(1) simply a low-on-coolant issue

(2) air in the system that needed to be burped out

(3) sticking thermostat


If its (1), I'm amazed that the temp stayed OK on the track...last session was 30 minutes before the ride home. I would figure running under alot of throttle between 3 and 5 grand would create more heat than a leisurely cruise down the highway (in 60 degree air).

If its (2) I'm surprised that adding fluid without burping would solve the problem. Wouldn't the air still be in there?

If its (3) maybe the addition of more lubricating ehtylene glycol loosened the thremo up enough for it to work for a while...but I may have to change it out again soon. Thermostst was replaced about a year ago - so its not the original one (hence not 10 years old)


....or perhaps it #4, something I'm not thinking of.

Thoughts/advice welcome

 

[Steve-Indy]

Several thoughts:

Year of the Viper ?

What was your coolant level in the pressure tank AND in the recovery bottle BEFORE the track event ?

On startup now, do you get heat quickly through the heater (as easily tested with hand on dash and defrosted on...set selector to full red...testing water pump here) while keeping close eye on them gauge ? Even if "yes", water pump could stillbe giving up the ghost.

Does radiator return hose (upper) get hot fairly soon...and, is that just before the fans kick in (hoping that T-stat is indeed opening) ?

Do the fans work at present (should turn on if A/C is turned on) ?

Do you feel or hear air in the upper hose upon squeezing it with both hands (COLD) firmly ?

What did your oil look like before the event versus now...and did the level rise or fall with the event ?

Any drips of anything ?

OK, I'm out of BS for now...let the pro's run with the ball.

 

[DrumrBoy]

Some answers below...I'll check the others tomorrow.

Several thoughts:

Year of the Viper ?

What was your coolant level in the pressure tank AND in the recovery bottle BEFORE the track event ? Before the event they were both topped up. I didn't check during the event, but after (just a 1 dayer) it was low.

On startup now, do you get heat quickly through the heater (as easily tested with hand on dash and defrosted on...set selector to full red...testing water pump here) while keeping close eye on them gauge ? Even if "yes", water pump could stillbe giving up the ghost.I'll check this one.

Does radiator return hose (upper) get hot fairly soon...and, is that just before the fans kick in (hoping that T-stat is indeed opening) ? I'll check that too

Do the fans work at present (should turn on if A/C is turned on) ? Fans work fine

Do you feel or hear air in the upper hose upon squeezing it with both hands (COLD) firmly ? Nope, but I may not be hearing it if I do.
What did your oil look like before the event versus now...and did the level rise or fall with the event ? Clean before, clean afre....only 100 miles at speed.

Any drips of anything ? Surprisingly no. The coolant has to go somewhere but no tell tale drips

OK, I'm out of BS for now...let the pro's run with the ball.

 

[VENOMIS]

I have a similiar situation. I noticed after owning the car about 1 year that it was running a little hotter than normal. It would run past the 3 rd line of the three. I checked the recovory bottle and it was almost empty. I topped it off and it sucked about half the bottle in. I topped it off again and now it stays full. So my question is there a possibility of air in the system? It still sometimes goes past the third line, fans come on and bring it down. I never really noticed it going past the 3rd line before now though.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

All, check your radiator cap and/or replace it with a new spring center cap (where the silver disk is spring loaded) and get rid of the drop center (where the silver disk just dangles.)

If any case, if the cap allows pressurized fluid out but doesn't seal well enough to allow fluid to get sucked back in, over time you will lose coolant. Check the multiple hose connectors between the plastic body tank under the hood and the overflow in the fascia, too.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Agree with Tom...noting that when I personally have had OEM "drop center" cap fail, I have usually ended up with a FULL (and running over!!!) coolant recovery bottle (in the nose) with little or no fluid in the pressurized bottle under the hood.

 

[Ratical2]

Very timely post! My temp has been edging up and I wondered why. The first 6 months that I had the car the need was dead on 190. Lately it has moved to the first hash mark to the right. Today it was even a little farther over. I noticed the facia tank was empty when I had the facia off and the under tank was at full mark and wondered if that was normal.

Thanks for the Tip!

 

[Steve-Indy]

Check your "fascia tank" for a hole in the bottom...and, no, that's not normal..."fascia tank" should have a fluid level half way in between the two embossed areas seen on either side of the view-port slit in the fender well...as measured COLD.

 

[ViperTony]

There was an old post that talked about how the overflow/fascia tank could become punctured from a long screw protruding from the bottom of the fasicia. Found it, here it is: http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-g...oh-no-fluid-leaking-front-vehicle-help-2.html There are some good tips in there.

 

[DrumrBoy]

Thanks for finding that one from '04 and thanks for the cue's all. Lots of things to check.....and replace. I never knew the OEM cap should be replaced. Will report back after doing the tests.

 

[Steve-Indy]

As part of the discussion in the "Cooling System Acting Up" thread, I tried post the info below and somehow (must have been ME), that attempt went into went a PCM thread...hopefully, this paste-up will return some continuity to the cooling thread...and THANKS, DrumrBoy for responding!!

"I did not see an answer to the year question...could it be a 1998???

If so, remember that a timing chain cover gasket CAN be a sneaky thing...no warning until it lets go, and you mix coolant with oil (hence the question I asked about your oil level and character of same).

I sure HOPE that it's something simple.

Appriciate your dialog as it's always a chance to learn more about our beloved Beasts !!"



DrumrBoy's answer was:

"Yep, 98.

I'll can provide more data tomorrow/Saturday when I can fuss with it and take it out to determine what effects the burping and topping up have. Oil is still M1 color and no foaming or sudsing. The coolant is still light green. I don't think they're mixing.

This is a quirky thing....never happened before and strange that it'd happen under easy conditions, especially when tough conditions immediately preceeded the occurrence.

4-post lLift is going in tomorrow, should make getting to the bottom of it this weekend easier!"

 

[Steve-Indy]

I'm STILL HOPING that it's something simple...and, you'll LOVE a 4 post lift !!!

 

[Ratical2]

Just did as recommended in this post yesterday. I filled the "fascia tank" and then burped the coolant by squeazing the upper radiator hose as well as multiple cycles of hot to cold and back again with the interior heater control after the car had come up to temp. This morning I check the fluid levels cold, I then took my wife down to Monterey to check the results. Today's High was around 68 degrees so the ambient temp wasn't extreme, but everything is back to normal. Now the temperature needle is back on the center hash mark 90% of the time. During some stop and go traffic the temp moved up one mark which is not a problem.
Thanks for posting these suggestions. I really appreciate it!

 

[Steve-Indy]

Good to hear, THANKS for the followup!!

 

[DrumrBoy]

Update.

Refilled the pressure tank three times.....now seems stabilized. The first two refills were sucked into the system completely.

Checked the top hose and burped by squeezing. No air pockets that I felt.

Car runs perfectly, stays right on the third 190 mark - just as it did before the weirdness of last weekend.

I did check the recovery bottle (in the fascia) and it looks like it is empty. I didn't take the fascia or inner fenderwell off but looked through the hole and read the level on the slot.
Is either 100% empty or 100% full.

Though the car seems fine, I think there ought to be some coolant in the recovery bottle, otherwise the system will pull air in when it needs additional coolant from the recovery bottle. So, three last questions:

1. Does the recovery bottle (in the fascia) need to have fluid in there?

2. Do you have to put fluid in there or if you keep the pressure bottle topped up will it send some to the recovery bottle to balance the system?

3. Assimung you have to do it, how does one fill that up without taking the fascia or inner fender well off? Do you do it from the line attached to the pressure bottle?

 

[dave6666]

Update.

Refilled the pressure tank three times.....now seems stabilized. The first two refills were sucked into the system completely.

Checked the top hose and burped by squeezing. No air pockets that I felt.

Car runs perfectly, stays right on the third 190 mark - just as it did before the weirdness of last weekend.

I did check the recovery bottle (in the fascia) and it looks like it is empty. I didn't take the fascia or inner fenderwell off but looked through the hole and read the level on the slot.
Is either 100% empty or 100% full.

Though the car seems fine, I think there ought to be some coolant in the recovery bottle, otherwise the system will pull air in when it needs additional coolant from the recovery bottle. So, three last questions:

1. Does the recovery bottle (in the fascia) need to have fluid in there?

YES. Otherwise your pressure bottle will **** air as the system cools.

2. Do you have to put fluid in there or if you keep the pressure bottle topped up will it send some to the recovery bottle to balance the system?

That is the point. Spits some out when hot, ***** some back in when cooling. You do want a minimum level as to never **** air.

3. Assimung you have to do it, how does one fill that up without taking the fascia or inner fender well off? Do you do it from the line attached to the pressure bottle?

YES. From the line at the pressure bottle. Turkey baster or small funnel.

..........

 

[DrumrBoy]

Grazzi. Will baste it up.

 

[DrumrBoy]

That did the trick; no more air. Now I just gotta find out where its leaking out from. The area inside the fascia is dry so I'm guessing its not the recovery bottle. I'll track it down tomorrow. Thanks all for the suggestions.

 

[GTS Bruce]

I have solved the same problem but don't know where it originates. Nothing in the oil or on the ground. After some time the car runs a little hotter and the coolant overflow tank in the fascia needs to be topped off. Happens after some work that involves the coolant system too. To bleed the system GET ROE HOSES with a valve at the coolant system high point. Then check and top off the fascia tank. Fill the fascia tank by pulling off the hose from the fender expansion to the fascia tank and pour some coolant down the tube. Simple and easy. Learned from D Lesser at Viper Specialty on this site. Otherwise mods are ar 180' t stat and the fans are programed to come on sooner. Runs much cooler. On the road if the temp starts coming up open the windows, take the top down, turn the blower on and heater to full blast to keep the engine cooler until you get home. Like I said. I don't know where it goes but I can handle it until I can add some more. Next time I will try a new expansion tank (on the fender) cap and possibly some better hose clamps. GTS Bruce

 

[dave6666]

It should be noted, that the tank in the front fascia is NOT a sealed tank. This photo is from the wrong side - it is where the hose from the pressure tank connects - but on the other side of the black cap is a vent. Not to be confused with the non pressure tight black cap... Point is, the water component in the coolant very slowly evaporates over time from that coolant bottle, requiring periodic replenishing. Just add water if topping off. The glycol does not evaporate.

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