ETC Light on!!! (`09)

[FastZilla]

I figure I would start a thread on this issue I'm having. At 59 miles my CEL came on and the ETC light began flashing - the ETC light is: ")" lightening bolt between "(" in the gauge opening below the fuel gauge. The car went into "limp home" mode - you are limited to about 2000-2200 rpm and have what feels like 1/10 of the throttle. Yes in 6th you can cover a lot of ground (comfortably cruise at 80) but you aren't getting there quickly. I have had the dealer and Tere (thank you!!!) scan the OBDII and come up with:
P0335 - Crankshaft Position Sensor
P0337 - CPS Low Frequency...something.

The ETC light clears overnight or after sitting and cooling down. I get between 15-75 miles before the ETC comes on and I'm back in "limp"

I have removed, cleaned and reseated the TPS and MAF connectors. I think I have done the same for the CPS however I do not know that what connector I have been messing with is actually the CPS.

I'm looking for any suggestions/help. I've got an `09 ACR with the performance of a U-Haul. Presently I am "officially" in the poser ranks with a lot of "show" and no "go".

Thanks in advance!!!

 

[Shadowman]

It would appear that the CPS sensor is not happy; she is under warranty as such I would suggest a visit to the dealer again however this time have them replace the CPS sensor rather than simply clearing the codes.

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[FastZilla]

I'll be there first thing int he morning. It's just the waiting on the part I'm not looking forward to. Limp mode is better than no mode - JK. She's sick and needs profesional care (Hard to find in San Antonio).

 

[Shadowman]

I'll be there first thing int he morning. It's just the waiting on the part I'm not looking forward to. Limp mode is better than no mode - JK. She's sick and needs profesional care (Hard to find in San Antonio).

You and your gal will be just fine; the CPS sensor is not a big deal

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Ed I have sent you a PM.

I figure I would start a thread on this issue I'm having. At 59 miles my CEL came on and the ETC light began flashing - the ETC light is: ")" lightening bolt between "(" in the gauge opening below the fuel gauge. The car went into "limp home" mode - you are limited to about 2000-2200 rpm and have what feels like 1/10 of the throttle. Yes in 6th you can cover a lot of ground (comfortably cruise at 80) but you aren't getting there quickly. I have had the dealer and Tere (thank you!!!) scan the OBDII and come up with:
P0335 - Crankshaft Position Sensor
P0337 - CPS Low Frequency...something.

The ETC light clears overnight or after sitting and cooling down. I get between 15-75 miles before the ETC comes on and I'm back in "limp"

I have removed, cleaned and reseated the TPS and MAF connectors. I think I have done the same for the CPS however I do not know that what connector I have been messing with is actually the CPS.

I'm looking for any suggestions/help. I've got an `09 ACR with the performance of a U-Haul. Presently I am "officially" in the poser ranks with a lot of "show" and no "go".

Thanks in advance!!!

 

[FastZilla]

Mark, replied to your PM. I hope it's not too late. FYI - the car has about 200 miles of limp mode driving on it & 150 miles of regular (350 total).

 

[DRBSRT]

Ed I have sent you a PM.

Mark - I know this issue existed on a few of the 08's, but thought the problem had been fixed. Is there a new problem on the 09's with the ETC flashing or was the '08 problem never fully resolved? Thanks!

 

[got one]

Okay Eddie...how did it do, did you get a chance to take it to the dealer once the rain let up and the roads dried?

 

[FastZilla]

The dealer called and said it was ready but they wated to keep it over night and test it in the morning. I have been working with Mark @ Woodhouse all day who has been in contact with the SRT engineers, my dealer & Chrysler and came up with a "solution". I will not disclose what has taken place so far - until I pick the car up and ensure the problem is resolved. I will tell you that what has been done is related to break-in and while seemingly not normal it can occur - lucky me . Once I get the car in the morning Mark will get the first progress report and I will let him post the "technical" stuff. My fingers are crossed but I now know how to reproduce the probelm very rapidly. More to come tomorrow!

 

[Shadowman]

The dealer called and said it was ready but they wated to keep it over night and test it in the morning. I have been working with Mark @ Woodhouse all day who has been in contact with the SRT engineers, my dealer & Chrysler and came up with a "solution". I will not disclose what has taken place so far - until I pick the car up and ensure the problem is resolved. I will tell you that what has been done is related to break-in and while seemingly not normal it can occur - lucky me . Once I get the car in the morning Mark will get the first progress report and I will let him post the "technical" stuff. My fingers are crossed but I now know how to reproduce the probelm very rapidly. More to come tomorrow!

and ..... any update?

Thank you

Shadowman

 

[FastZilla]

I got it back today - no CEL & no ETC light. Everything seems normal. It has been raining all day in San Antonio so I have not had the opportunity to put any miles on it. I may not be able to take it out tomorrow if the rain continues (raining off & on right now). One of the benefits of the "cup" tires. Hopefully I'll have a better update tomorrow.

 

[FastZilla]

Ok, here is the "report". I put almost 150 miles on it yesterday with NO ETC Light!!!! Yeah!!!! I'm sitting in Mission Dodge right now getting an oil change - first one. What I was told concerning the ECT light is that some engines are tighter than others (I'm hoping Mark will chime in with the real tech stuff) and that the cam in cam can stick when it gets hot and the metal swells (I'm assuming this is the VVT system in the Gen 4's). This issue is the extent of my experience with VVT systems so I'll leave it to the experts to answer. The solution was to idle the engine for 45 minutes, rinse and repeat (aka: do it again). It appears this allows the engine to get as hot as the cooling system will allow it (vs driving down the road where it will be cooler because of air flow). Then the metals will expand to their maximum (excluding an overheat) and thus "wear in". I do know that the next step would have been a 15w-50 oil which would have provided a thicker layer of oil between the cams. Also down here in TX 15w-50 oil is very common with the heat (don't know about the commonality of it in Vipers).

Is this a bad thing? I don't consider it such - I just have a really tight engine that was on the extreme side of the Plasti-Gauge tolerance when the techs assembled it. Tighter engines mean longer lasting but also mean longer to "loosen up" (read as generate it's full power potential). These are general notes from my own personal experiences with other engines.

I throw these disclaimers in there because I don't want folks thinking that their engines are NOT producing full power from the factory or thinking that their engins won't last as long. There are sooooo many variables that govern those items that a generalization almost cannot be given. As to the extra longevity it would be realized out at the 200-300k mile mark.

PS: has any Viper even crossed the 100k mile mark yet???

I would think this would become a possible break-in procedure if similar symptoms arise. Keep in Mind the codes thrown were:
P0335 - Crankshaft position sensor (CKP)
P0337 - Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) - Low Frequency

The MIL/CEL (Check Engine) lickt will come on simultaneously with the ")lightening bolt(" light flashing and the car will instantly go into limp mide. I won't describe limp mode - believe me, you'll know it when you're in it.

I will say that in limp mode I was getting almost 30mpg - gas guzzler my a$$!!!! That included hwy and stop & go over 125 miles!!!

I love our EPA!

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Edward,

That is a great explanation and I am glad it's all good. The 15/50 is also a good I idea in the heat for sure.

 

[Shadowman]

Ok, here is the "report". I put almost 150 miles on it yesterday with NO ETC Light!!!! Yeah!!!! I'm sitting in Mission Dodge right now getting an oil change - first one. What I was told concerning the ECT light is that some engines are tighter than others (I'm hoping Mark will chime in with the real tech stuff) and that the cam in cam can stick when it gets hot and the metal swells (I'm assuming this is the VVT system in the Gen 4's). This issue is the extent of my experience with VVT systems so I'll leave it to the experts to answer. The solution was to idle the engine for 45 minutes, rinse and repeat (aka: do it again). It appears this allows the engine to get as hot as the cooling system will allow it (vs driving down the road where it will be cooler because of air flow). Then the metals will expand to their maximum (excluding an overheat) and thus "wear in". I do know that the next step would have been a 15w-50 oil which would have provided a thicker layer of oil between the cams. Also down here in TX 15w-50 oil is very common with the heat (don't know about the commonality of it in Vipers).

Is this a bad thing? I don't consider it such - I just have a really tight engine that was on the extreme side of the Plasti-Gauge tolerance when the techs assembled it. Tighter engines mean longer lasting but also mean longer to "loosen up" (read as generate it's full power potential). These are general notes from my own personal experiences with other engines.

I throw these disclaimers in there because I don't want folks thinking that their engines are NOT producing full power from the factory or thinking that their engins won't last as long. There are sooooo many variables that govern those items that a generalization almost cannot be given. As to the extra longevity it would be realized out at the 200-300k mile mark.

PS: has any Viper even crossed the 100k mile mark yet???

I would think this would become a possible break-in procedure if similar symptoms arise. Keep in Mind the codes thrown were:
P0335 - Crankshaft position sensor (CKP)
P0337 - Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) - Low Frequency

The MIL/CEL (Check Engine) lickt will come on simultaneously with the ")lightening bolt(" light flashing and the car will instantly go into limp mide. I won't describe limp mode - believe me, you'll know it when you're in it.

I will say that in limp mode I was getting almost 30mpg - gas guzzler my a$$!!!! That included hwy and stop & go over 125 miles!!!

I love our EPA!

Thank you for the data as shared; it makes good sense to me.

From this end no worries however having this information helps with the couple 09's about to begin their walk in life.

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[99 R/T 10]

I'm confused a bit. assuming ther are no codes and the proper break-in is done, the new owner is good correct? But if they experience the above problems, then the car has to sit and idle(with minimum miles on the engine) to "loosen" it up? Won't that also promote more oil burning thru an improper beak-in?

 

[Shadowman]

I'm confused a bit. assuming ther are no codes and the proper break-in is done, the new owner is good correct? But if they experience the above problems, then the car has to sit and idle(with minimum miles on the engine) to "loosen" it up? Won't that also promote more oil burning thru an improper beak-in?

Relax as all will be good to go based on this information

What I read was the following and understands as we build many engines in our facility however the Viper engine is new to us.

The tolerances within the variable cams is such that if a gal is assembled/delivered with the stick/cam on the tighter side of life and all the stars align just right a situation can occur where for a brief moment in time the rotating cams will actually seize hence the codes and then when the gal cools down the become free again. Now IMO and as stated this can only happen during a relatively short period of operation (during the projected break-in of 4-500 miles after which all are golden) because the normal operation will burnish the surfaces hence create a bit more clearance and then the process will never be experienced again.

This had nothing to do with oil consumption

The advantage if there is one for the tighter setup at the onset will be a more precise variable cam operation along with a bit quieter operation.

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[FastZilla]

Burning oil would be a result of piston ring or valve guide related issues.

To only share some of my past experiences when ever I rebuilt an engine I would always run a "break in" oil in the engine for the first few hundred miles. A "break in" oil was a non-synthetic, no detergent, no additive oil - BTW: try to find such an oil these days. This oil would allw the engine to quickly "wear-in". Since our engines come from the factory wth full synthetic oil this wear in period will be much less intrusive on the engine than the good ole "break-in" oil I used to use. Also thinner weight oils in hotter climates (its getting in the 80's down here in TX) have smaller molecules thus less "cushion" between the parts - the reason why the possibility of going to 15w-50.

In other words - mind my disclaimers - this is really normal engine break-in stuff. 99% of the time the tolerances are just fine. If you have ever rebuilt an engine you will understand that while 99% of the bearings PlastiGauge just perfect (right in the middle of the tolerance range and they are all teh same) - then there is always 1 bearing that you PlastiGauge 3-4 times and it's just a hair tight. So you slab on the MolyLube and break out the break-in oil and expect a tight engine.

Now the folks at Dodge hand assembling these "exotic" engines are not going to take the chances I used to. But for the record I have never had to tear an engine down because of a bearing on the "tight" side. I have melted a piston at 200 miles from an injector failing and leaning the cylinder out.

Hope this clears things up and releaves some worries.

 

[Tere]

Outstanding that the issue appears resolved! Now we're ready for some more fast cruises without worries! Interesting stuff on the idle routine, but it makes sense.

Really good news!

 

[FastZilla]

Thx Tere. The issue is still gone (for good it seems). I plan on being at the Hill Country Drive on the 28th. Went to Biff Buzzbeys last night - seems it's every Friday night now that the weather is nice. Met up with a 97 GTS out of New Braunfels. I parked in front of all the Vettes - funny how the entire crowd swarmed the ACR. My buddy there in his car called me over to point out all the Vette guys who walked over to take a peek. It's a good clean cruise in right at Topperwein & 35. I may be able to make it out there this coming Friday. Still tons of old rods & muscle out there as well.

 

[Tere]

Thx Tere. The issue is still gone (for good it seems). I plan on being at the Hill Country Drive on the 28th. Went to Biff Buzzbeys last night - seems it's every Friday night now that the weather is nice. Met up with a 97 GTS out of New Braunfels. I parked in front of all the Vettes - funny how the entire crowd swarmed the ACR. My buddy there in his car called me over to point out all the Vette guys who walked over to take a peek. It's a good clean cruise in right at Topperwein & 35. I may be able to make it out there this coming Friday. Still tons of old rods & muscle out there as well.

LOL... Last time I was out there (not quite a year ago), I had the '03 350 which drew loads of attention from both the import and domestic muscle car crowd -- it's the turbojet sound when you roll in. The domestic muscle crowd (Vettes included) seem to favor superchargers, so they had an interest in taking a peek at the blown 350Z (has more hp than my Viper).

 

[09 Venom]

The same light just came on in my car today. So you say I should hold off getting it flat-bed to Tator's and just start her up again and let her idle?

 

[adamlotus]

in the winter time i would use 10/40 oil for my lambo than in the summer time lambo recomend to have 20/50 ,maybe its a good idea for vipers to use 15/50 for 90 plus degrees of heat?