For all the Z06 hand wringers....

[viperdrummer]

I can't get over all the hue and cry over the new Z06 on this board. I certainly agree that pressure should be brought to bear on D-C to make sure that Viper remains the American standard, but let's put this in perspective:

1. The car media is fickle and when it all flushes out the Viper will meet or exceed the high end Vette in almost all aspects. Even with all the giddiness, folks like Road and Track have admitted that the Z does not match the Viper's power. I can take a 10 yr old Supra and with a few $$ make it kick my 2 Vipers' butts, but it's still a Supra.

2. Assuming for the sake of argument the Z nips the Viper in a couple of performance areas--so what?? Does this impact the Viper any more than Viper impacts certain Ferraris and other exotics for outperforming those cars? Do you really think Ferrari owners went out and sold their cars and had huge hand wringing sessions over the Viper--doubtful.

4.If the Z bothers you that much, wait about 6 -10 months and go buy one--there will be plenty. And, like my C6 (I paid MSRP for an early one) they will ultimately be heavily discounted. Then, when its electronics laden problems surface ( and they will ) go to your Chevy dealer and ask for their "Vette tech" to care of the problem on your $77-80K Z and see what response you get-- deer in the headlights--there is no Vette tech. I have been there on the much simpler C5s and C6 I have owned --it ain't fun.

3.They just stopped making 05 Vettes in the past week, and best I can tell Chevy welcomed their C6 owners by making over 37,000 Vettes ( may be wrong on number) Gee--thanks. I had number 5041 and hoped they would not go past 25,000. I am too lazy to do the math, but have there been this many Vipers since 1992??? So, the Z will run around the streets with its tens of thousands of siblings in almost total obscurity. But, it will look good next to the hopped up Supra which will likewise kick its a$$.

In summary, I just don't get all the heartache. Chevy has FINALLY brought some amount of performance pressure to bear, but little else. A Viper, with its fit , finish, exclusivety, and proven heritage as an exotic will remain what it is. If Dodge decides to start making 10,000/yr; they show up in every showroom; offer automatics; cruise control and we begin to see a large percentage of chicks driving them to the hairdresser, I will join the choir. Until then, I don't get it.

 

[VipeRicK]

Amen brother, I have been watching this for weeks and wondering what all the fuss is about. I own a Viper and a vette and there is no comparison. I really like my vette, but I've gotten more looks and compliments on my Viper in 9 weeks that I got with my vette in 9 years. And by the way isn't the ZO6 a COUPE, but of course it is !!!!!!!!!!
My Viper is a convertible let them try and put their top down. Remember, if the ZO6 costs less than my SRT10 it should, doesn,t the convertible vette cost several thousand dollars more than their standard coupe, of course it does !!!!!!! Guys, you have the best car for the money on the road in our catagory enjoy it. I chose the Viper over the ZO6 2 months ago, I could have had either one.

2005 Silver SRT 10

 

[WILDASP]

Well said!! Visitors from the Vette boards must be laughing their collective backsides off at all this weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth from some parts of the Viper Nation. The Vette is what it is-it's not a Viper-killer, as I'm sure they will find out on the track.It's still a Vette, with all the issues you have mentioned-to which I would add numb steering and seats with insufficient lateral support. I see it as a possible daily driver for going places I wouldn't want to park my Viper-it's fairly inconspicuous, and dings on a typical GM paint job aren't such a big deal.

 

[sween]

I can't get over all the hue and cry over the new Z06 on this board. I certainly agree that pressure should be brought to bear on D-C to make sure that Viper remains the American standard, but let's put this in perspective:

1. The car media is fickle and when it all flushes out the Viper will meet or exceed the high end Vette in almost all aspects. Even with all the giddiness, folks like Road and Track have admitted that the Z does not match the Viper's power. I can take a 10 yr old Supra and with a few $$ make it kick my 2 Vipers' butts, but it's still a Supra.

2. Assuming for the sake of argument the Z nips the Viper in a couple of performance areas--so what?? Does this impact the Viper any more than Viper impacts certain Ferraris and other exotics for outperforming those cars? Do you really think Ferrari owners went out and sold their cars and had huge hand wringing sessions over the Viper--doubtful.

4.If the Z bothers you that much, wait about 6 -10 months and go buy one--there will be plenty. And, like my C6 (I paid MSRP for an early one) they will ultimately be heavily discounted. Then, when its electronics laden problems surface ( and they will ) go to your Chevy dealer and ask for their "Vette tech" to care of the problem on your $77-80K Z and see what response you get-- deer in the headlights--there is no Vette tech. I have been there on the much simpler C5s and C6 I have owned --it ain't fun.

3.They just stopped making 05 Vettes in the past week, and best I can tell Chevy welcomed their C6 owners by making over 37,000 Vettes ( may be wrong on number) Gee--thanks. I had number 5041 and hoped they would not go past 25,000. I am too lazy to do the math, but have there been this many Vipers since 1992??? So, the Z will run around the streets with its tens of thousands of siblings in almost total obscurity. But, it will look good next to the hopped up Supra which will likewise kick its a$$.

In summary, I just don't get all the heartache. Chevy has FINALLY brought some amount of performance pressure to bear, but little else. A Viper, with its fit , finish, exclusivety, and proven heritage as an exotic will remain what it is. If Dodge decides to start making 10,000/yr; they show up in every showroom; offer automatics; cruise control and we begin to see a large percentage of chicks driving them to the hairdresser, I will join the choir. Until then, I don't get it.

very well said

 

[SweetRed04]

Amen brother, I have been watching this for weeks and wondering what all the fuss is about. I own a Viper and a vette and there is no comparison. I really like my vette, but I've gotten more looks and compliments on my Viper in 9 weeks that I got with my vette in 9 years. And by the way isn't the ZO6 a COUPE, but of course it is !!!!!!!!!!
My Viper is a convertible let them try and put their top down. Remember, if the ZO6 costs less than my SRT10 it should, doesn,t the convertible vette cost several thousand dollars more than their standard coupe, of course it does !!!!!!! Guys, you have the best car for the money on the road in our catagory enjoy it. I chose the Viper over the ZO6 2 months ago, I could have had either one.

2005 Silver SRT 10

I agree with your post totally.

I disagree with viperdrummer on Cruise Control however. The function of cruise control is to avoid speeding tickets when traveling - there is NOTHING out of line to have cruise in a high performance car. It allows you to keep the speed at a fixed amount over the limit, and lets you shadow the brake pedal for a quick decelleration when your radar detector sounds an alarm.

 

[Mach10]

I can't get over all the hue and cry over the new Z06 on this board. I certainly agree that pressure should be brought to bear on D-C to make sure that Viper remains the American standard, but let's put this in perspective:

1. The car media is fickle and when it all flushes out the Viper will meet or exceed the high end Vette in almost all aspects. Even with all the giddiness, folks like Road and Track have admitted that the Z does not match the Viper's power. I can take a 10 yr old Supra and with a few $$ make it kick my 2 Vipers' butts, but it's still a Supra.

2. Assuming for the sake of argument the Z nips the Viper in a couple of performance areas--so what?? Does this impact the Viper any more than Viper impacts certain Ferraris and other exotics for outperforming those cars? Do you really think Ferrari owners went out and sold their cars and had huge hand wringing sessions over the Viper--doubtful.

4.If the Z bothers you that much, wait about 6 -10 months and go buy one--there will be plenty. And, like my C6 (I paid MSRP for an early one) they will ultimately be heavily discounted. Then, when its electronics laden problems surface ( and they will ) go to your Chevy dealer and ask for their "Vette tech" to care of the problem on your $77-80K Z and see what response you get-- deer in the headlights--there is no Vette tech. I have been there on the much simpler C5s and C6 I have owned --it ain't fun.

3.They just stopped making 05 Vettes in the past week, and best I can tell Chevy welcomed their C6 owners by making over 37,000 Vettes ( may be wrong on number) Gee--thanks. I had number 5041 and hoped they would not go past 25,000. I am too lazy to do the math, but have there been this many Vipers since 1992??? So, the Z will run around the streets with its tens of thousands of siblings in almost total obscurity. But, it will look good next to the hopped up Supra which will likewise kick its a$$.

In summary, I just don't get all the heartache. Chevy has FINALLY brought some amount of performance pressure to bear, but little else. A Viper, with its fit , finish, exclusivety, and proven heritage as an exotic will remain what it is. If Dodge decides to start making 10,000/yr; they show up in every showroom; offer automatics; cruise control and we begin to see a large percentage of chicks driving them to the hairdresser, I will join the choir. Until then, I don't get it.

very well said

ditto......

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

The truth shall set you free. Well said guys.

Finally, some Viper guys on this board. It's bad enough to hear it from my brother every other day, about how the NEW 2006 z06 is going to kick my 2000 GTS butt, and he leave out the fact that it's still just another mass produced Vette. But I hate hearing other Viper owners that forget that point and so many others.

Thanks for drumming that into our heads ViperDrummer. (pun intended)

 

[97 Viper GTS]

Amen. I couldn't agree more...

No matter what Chevy drives off the assembly line, it is still just a vette. The Viper's position is already firmly established in the sports car hierarchy. I might pick up a Z06 for my wife as a second track car, but for me it will always be the Gen II GTS!!!

 

[Hirohawa]

2. Assuming for the sake of argument the Z nips the Viper in a couple of performance areas--so what?? Does this impact the Viper any more than Viper impacts certain Ferraris and other exotics for outperforming those cars? Do you really think Ferrari owners went out and sold their cars and had huge hand wringing sessions over the Viper--doubtful.

Yeah so what. Who needs superior performance. The Viper doesn't need to be the fastest. Third or fourth place is fine. Maybe they should even detune it so less people buy it and it becomes more exclusive.

Ferarris don't sit on lots with ten thousand dollar "incentives" to buy. Every new F-car gets snapped up for MSRP or above - also there is a wait list for two years on the new F430. Nice try.

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

I agree with all of your points viperdrummer. I personally will never step down to a Vette. The Gen III is faster and better in almost every way than each previous Viper or most anything else. Any posts I have make previous were regarding the survival of the Viper because of lower sales. The styling is the only thing that could have caused this. It was a disappointment that the Coupe painted B/W was not officially labeled a GTS and did not have an increase in hp or other improvements like the GEN II GTS when it arrived and it costs $10k more. There are rumors of the GEN IV being real awesome. DC does need to get both the hp and styling right and not let just a windtunnel design it which is probably why the front of the C6 and the SRT10 do share a resemblance. I personally think a Viper is not a Viper if the only difference between it and a Z06 is a lower production number.
A Viper, by established definition, has to be the most outrageous car in looks and performance you can get for under $100k. Except for the price, the Comp Coupe is a good example of what would keep the excitement going. I really hope cues from the Comp Coupe and the original RT/10 make it to the GEN IV. Imagine a tall rear wing on a Viper with a GEN II style removable roof and clamshell hood with a 650 hp V10. Hey, I can still dream.

 

[RavenFan_94]

Yeah so what. Who needs superior performance. The Viper doesn't need to be the fastest. Third or fourth place is fine. Maybe they should even detune it so less people buy it and it becomes more exclusive.

Ferarris don't sit on lots with ten thousand dollar "incentives" to buy. Every new F-car gets snapped up for MSRP or above - also there is a wait list for two years on the new F430. Nice try.

This is getting to be a tired song. I really hope that you don't believe what you typed regarding the F cars. The Viper's target is so completely different than the F car crowd. You can do a marketing cross section and the two only meet in the most diverse car collector's garages. I challenge anyone to show me more than a handful.

Please find something better to do than post thoughtlessly time and time again. Your a Vette guy, enjoy it and stop crying.

 

[safireviper]

The original concept of the Viper is gone. I am one who totally disagrees with what Viper Drummer says.
The idea of the Viper was to be the BEST American sports car in every category. So the Viper is no longer the best performer. So what you say? It was the REASON the Viper was made. To be the best performer. Period. I cannot imagine owning a company where the competition catches you and the Viper following says " Well, it's about time. It took them long enough."
Well, guys, you're going to get just what you wanted. A car that costs 20 K more and is out performed by a Chevy. And all we can come back with is -- we have new stripes and colors.
The Viper was supposed to be the most kick ass car going for the price. We should have a dry sump system and light weight panels and a Hemi Head V-10 but not according to many here. What exactly will it take until the folks in here see that the Viper is not the car it used to be and that a Chevy is now the best bang for the buck?

 

[Paul Hawker]

Maybe I am not in a competitive mood today, but I welcome the new ZO-6. I believe it will not be a "Viper Killer", but will be able to run side by side, with some great competitions to come.

No, It does not have as good brakes as a Viper, nor does it have the torque, but it is nice and lightweight, in base configuration, (think with options they will weight about the same as a new Coupe with light weight factory wheels), and has some decent rubber all the way around. Can't wait till they get some out for us to match up with.

(Unfortunately, with my Paxton, it will not be a fair fight, but that is the way I like it.)

 

[RavenFan_94]

the Viper has moved beyond what you wanted it to be. Sorry for your loss. Many seem to like it.

 

[Viper X]

Bring on the new Z-06. More food for my Viper - and most other's Vipers. When this thing hits the streets, many of these new vette owners will think they are king of the road. They will learn differently in very short order. Should provide many of us with some entertainment.

Challengers have been a bit dry lately, just the occaisional challenge from a Porche GT or Turbo and one Ferrai F430. Obviously new cars with new owners. Snuffed several lately. Doubt they'll test any more Vipers for a while.

 

[ViperJoe]

I gave up one of the 2 spots in line for the new Z-06, and am buying another Viper instead in the mean time. The new
Z-06 looks too much like the standard C6 for me. Granted it has some trick stuff, but a Viper with a 10hp Briggs and Stratton will STILL get more looks.......won't run worth a hoot, but will definately get the looks!
And IMO..........the Viper is a timeless design of 1 bada$$ sports car!

 

[FinalEd357]

I have an 02GTS and a deposit for a new c6Z. I'm considering cancelling the c6z and picking up a used SRT-10 (03-04). With some prices now under $60k, I believe the value is outstanding! I'd love to use my 3rd from last GTS for car shows, etc. and get more driving and enjoy the updates on a new SRT-10. I think the Z06 values will drop significantly in the next year or 2. Why pay sticker now?

 

[Hirohawa]

Someone who actually remebers what a Viper is supposed to be.

This car blew away not only the Corvette when it came out but just about every other sports car on the planet. Also there was no division in people in terms of looks. It was a home run, I still turn heads and get thumbs up every time I drive my 93.

The original concept of the Viper is gone. I am one who totally disagrees with what Viper Drummer says.
The idea of the Viper was to be the BEST American sports car in every category. So the Viper is no longer the best performer. So what you say? It was the REASON the Viper was made. To be the best performer. Period. I cannot imagine owning a company where the competition catches you and the Viper following says " Well, it's about time. It took them long enough."
Well, guys, you're going to get just what you wanted. A car that costs 20 K more and is out performed by a Chevy. And all we can come back with is -- we have new stripes and colors.
The Viper was supposed to be the most kick ass car going for the price. We should have a dry sump system and light weight panels and a Hemi Head V-10 but not according to many here. What exactly will it take until the folks in here see that the Viper is not the car it used to be and that a Chevy is now the best bang for the buck?

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

SafireV I appreciate your enthusiasm. I'm in the wait-until-next-year camp. GM is notorious for falling short of performance claims and producing a "good enough" car, as is becoming evident with the new Z06. DC is waiting for GM to roll another pig on the road so they can see exactly how far they need to move the bar. I can wait a year. If they fail to deliver I'll join you.

The glass is half full.

 

[vviperr]

Thanks for the post. Being a 1 year Viper owner I can't believe all the whining I read. My ACR is so different from anything else on the road. Just yesterday, the wife of a fellow working on my barn came over as I was cleaning my ACR and told me she had never seen a car so gorgeous. Such comments happen all the time. To me Vettes are fine for what they are but I don't want one.

 

[Viperfreak2]

Amen to most of the above.

While I too want to see the Viper as number one, it won't best Ford GT performance unless there are some major changes (weight or power) and that means increased cost. Probably would push the car over $100,000. I do not want to see that happen.

So what we have is a brand with a great reputation, awesome performance AND potential.

The Vette guys argue that their new baby is now equal to or better than the snake....not likely.

Imagine Kia came out with a new sports car (don't laugh) and it had 500 hp and weighed 2900 lbs and cost $49,995. Would the Vette guys dump their ride for the new Kia? Nope. Even though the Kia has better numbers, the Vette name still has that special American 'something' that you can't put a price on.

The Viper has that over the Vette and always will.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

While I too want to see the Viper as number one, it won't best Ford GT performance unless there are some major changes (weight or power)

Huh? The GT is another one that equals the Viper in 1/4 times but falls short in braking and cornering. Besides, they won't be building them in another year or two so it's a limited contender.

Is everybody here a dragracer? You guys need to get to a track and have some real fun.

 

[rleminv]

The Ford GT is a beautiful car. The original GT40 was and is one of my favorite cars of all time. The racing, excitement, heritage; a lot of us remember when Ford tried to buy Ferrari in the 60's and what that led to.

I may consider a GT sometime in the future. But not for even MSRP, and that's doable today. My concern is that it is not race and road tested like the Viper, and it's value and heritage is all smoke and mirrors spewed from the print of magazines and mouths of Ford dealers and salesmen.

Does anyone remember the Mongusta or Pantera? In 30 years how would you feel if you still owned the GT and it was worth what $30-$50K in 2005 dollars? No, I would rather put the money in a Viper with change left over; or $160K in a used Ferrari 360, 550, etc.

My 04 Hayabusa is for sale. Some guy wanted to trade me straight across for his 89 Corvette, above average condition. I was polite when I said no. We're only talking about $8-$10K. Can't even buy a decent turbo or supercharger for the Viper with that!

Ford GT and C6Z will be blips in automotive history. Thanks to the "passion" shown by owners on this board, my 05 SRT, Black #? of ??? will always be part of the mystique and heritage of the Viper. It's value will be determined by those of you that appreciate it for what it is. Those of you that keep your race cars will really see an appreciation of value IMHO.

The hand wringers have the mentality of the best of this, fastest of that. Buy the next "fastest" auto, fastest bike, the fastest PC, biggest house, blah, blah, etc. And yes, I've been there and done that. Those that are really, honestly concerned or waivering on which one to buy, I would suggest getting the C6Z. Hurry, I know where you can get them for MSRP with December delivery!

 

[LETHAL GTS]

Is everybody here a dragracer? You guys need to get to a track and have some real fun.

Ya and you dragrace from coner to corner!

 

[trumper Z06]

Someone who actually remebers what a Viper is supposed to be.

This car blew away not only the Corvette when it came out but just about every other sports car on the planet. Also there was no division in people in terms of looks. It was a home run, I still turn heads and get thumbs up every time I drive my 93.

Hhmmmmm.... I guess you just forgot the Corvette ZR-1 aka King of the Hill !!! It was available in 93 and as I recall...

somewhat FASTER than the Dodge Boys Kit Kar.

When Chevy dis-continued the ZR-1 the Viper indeed ran the table with the Gen. II... until Corvette brought out the C-5 Z06. Today the difference between these cars on a road course comes down to the driver.

The new C-6 Z06... with equal drivers... will put both of those cars on the trailer.

Maybe Mercedes Benz will allow Chrysler to invest the resources necessary to enable the Dodge Boys to compete... but I doubt it.

After all, they want Mercedes to have the performance image... it is their COMPANY !

 

[Russ M]

I personaly think its a fantastic car, its everything that makes a great sports car except the price. Once the hype goes down and prices become acceptable I will seriously consider buying one.

Only hope Dodge has to keep my business is to come out with a car that looks like a viper should with the performance to boot while keeping a price comperable to the current viper. As it stands right now if Dodge does up the viper to make it as it was, the price is going to sky rocket which will make it out of my budget for a viper.

 

[Hirohawa]

From personal stop light experience the Gen I Viper is faster than a ZR-1. Also it was cheaper and lighter and every car rag picked it as a better car than the ZR1.

ZR1 where discontinued because, wait for it....

no one bought them. They made IIRC 500 in their last year of production.

Also the looks where totally bland.

If the Viper never came out it would have been a home run.

So based on history a Lighter faster car with the same HP sold better than the more expensive car that was heavier and not as fast on a track and not everyone like the looks. Hmm.. That reminds me of something...

Someone who actually remebers what a Viper is supposed to be.

This car blew away not only the Corvette when it came out but just about every other sports car on the planet. Also there was no division in people in terms of looks. It was a home run, I still turn heads and get thumbs up every time I drive my 93.

Hhmmmmm.... I guess you just forgot the Corvette ZR-1 aka King of the Hill !!! It was available in 93 and as I recall...

somewhat FASTER than the Dodge Boys Kit Kar.

When Chevy dis-continued the ZR-1 the Viper indeed ran the table with the Gen. II... until Corvette brought out the C-5 Z06. Today the difference between these cars on a road course comes down to the driver.

The new C-6 Z06... with equal drivers... will put both of those cars on the trailer.

Maybe Mercedes Benz will allow Chrysler to invest the resources necessary to enable the Dodge Boys to compete... but I doubt it.

After all, they want Mercedes to have the performance image... it is their COMPANY !

 

[trumper Z06]

If the Viper never came out it would have been a home run.

So based on history a Lighter faster car with the same HP sold better than the more expensive car that was heavier and not as fast on a track and not everyone like the looks. Hmm.. That reminds me of something...

Gosh... When UR rite.... YOUR RIGHT !!!

Fast forward to the Fall/2005 and we see....

The Lighter Faster car ( read C-6 Z06 ), with the same HP will sell better than the more EXPENSIVE car ( Viper ), that is heavier and not as fast on a track....

I wonder if the Viper's possibly following the ZR1... because no one's been buying it, too !

Maybe Mercedes Benz will invest the resources necessary for the Viper to compete with the new Z06... but... not likely !!!

 

[SRT10]

If the Viper never came out it would have been a home run.

So based on history a Lighter faster car with the same HP sold better than the more expensive car that was heavier and not as fast on a track and not everyone like the looks. Hmm.. That reminds me of something...

Gosh... When UR rite.... YOUR RIGHT !!!

Fast forward to the Fall/2005 and we see....

The Lighter Faster car ( read C-6 Z06 ), with the same HP will sell better than the more EXPENSIVE car ( Viper ), that is heavier and not as fast on a track....

I wonder if the Viper's possibly following the ZR1... because no one's been buying it, too !

Maybe Mercedes Benz will invest the resources necessary for the Viper to compete with the new Z06... but... not likely !!!

Ha ha ha, your a funny guy. You should join this comedy team...
"Car & Driver has always been biased in favor of the Corvette! C&D editor Csaba Csere had his lips stuck to (Vette engr) Dave Hills butt for years! Hill is so delusional, he still thinks the C5 Z06 can run to 60 in 4 secs flat! Together those two would make a great comedy team! "
Really, lay off the hammer..

You must be registered for see images

 

[GR8_ASP]

I like the "lighter faster car will sell better" comment. The vette will sell better no matter what. That does not conclude anything.

Also, by what facts do you state that no one is buying the SRT? Sales figures or vette speak (otherwise known as Chevy trash talk)?

The killer for the ZR1 was high price and hard to distinguish difference from the base vette (appearance wise). The C5Z06 was more different than the C5 due to the fixed roof (only used in non-Z06 for a short period) than the C6Z06. You have to be a car guy to notice the difference. The only redeeming fact is that it now performs in the same region as the Viper (not claiming victory or loss there) for now. But that is versus a 3 year older design. If you do not expect the Viper to leap frog the Z06 then you really are in dreamland.

But until then my lowly 4.6 lb/hp SRT will waste your C6Z06 (whenever you get it).