Hoosier R6 vs. Pilot Sport Cup

[Allan]

Looking for insight on pros and cons of running Hoosiers as opposed to anything else for HPDE / lapping days. Currently using Pilot Sport Cups. Previously -Kumho XS, Nitto Invo, Pilot sport 1's. I know the "real track tires" are gonna be all that and a bag of chips on the track, but here's my problem,.... I don't trailer the car. There are 4 different tracks I run on, and the one most frequently is 150 miles away from home. So, how feasable is it to commute 300 miles on dedicated track rubber? My concerns are, durability, and paint chipping on the car from the sticky tires throwing sand at it. The other concern is how many days / sessions does a set last? I've asked guy's at track day's that do what I'm asking about here, never get a straight answer. (are they keeping a secret from me so I don't go faster, or what?).... next, is it really nessesary to opt for the heat cycling...does that really make a difference in the tire for longevity........help

 

[MTGTS]

Since you don't trailer the car I would suggest keeping your sports cups or even going to Super Sports as they will last longer and are safer just in case of rain. They actually have quite a bit of grip as well. IF you go to an R6 you will NOT want to go back so I don't even suggest trying them until you have a trailer. Now, safety issues aside, driving to and from the track on a Hoosier will count as a heat cycle on the tire. More heats cycles = harder tire.

 

[hou99gts]

X2 on what MTGTS said.

I have faced the same problem, I drive mine to and from the track, so I have had to stick with PSC's. The R6's are faster than the PSC's at the track.

 

[steve911]

whats the differnce between the A6's and the R6's?

 

[Shifty]

Allan, I do the exact thing with my 09 ACR since I'm either going to Va Int or Watkins Glen and the drives are so nice. I've gotten 7K combined road/track miles out of my Sport Cups so far (5 track weekends), even running 30psi on the street and the recommended 22psi at the track. I picked up a used set of PSCs for the next round, but after those, I'll likely try the Super Sports primarily out of curiousity more than anything (to see if Michelin's claims about applying their endurance racing experience for both traction and durability is valid) and also because as you know you have to be easy with the PSCs in any sort of wet conditions. After that, I'll just have to see. Oddly, the PSCs are becoming slightly cheaper than PS2s or the SS. Guess production is ramping up due to the ZR-1 application....

 

[treesnake]

whats the differnce between the A6's and the R6's?

A6s.... are Autocross tires. Sticky but let go in a hurry on the road course.

R6s..... are a Road Race tire. Need a little warmimg up and last a little longer than A6s....IMO

 

[Allan]

Thanks for the replies, I just can't stop deliberating with myself over this issue. I've seen other guys run R6's and drive back and forth also, but not on Vipers. Thats why I'm asking here. I guess I could try it and see, I don't drive on the street anymore other than the commute to and from the track, but what are the cops gonna say if they notice (no tread), and will I destoy the paint? .....also PSC's UTQG is 80, R6 is 40. are they really only half as long lasting,... like how many track days/sessions are the R6's good for on a Viper. I apologize for being so OCD about this when there are so many bigger problems in the world, but I don't golf, hunt, or fish. Viper and track days are my only hobby, so I like to do it FULL BLAST!

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Allan,

You mention you always drive to the track and you sound like you do alot of events, maybe buddying up with someone is a cure. My suggestion , if plausible, would be whether you have a friend who often goes and trailers his car? Over the years many of us found friends, even tracks, that let us store our tires/rims or that pal who would bring them down with his trailer. Of course it does mean you might want to jump in and help him a bit more on his prep or tire changes , for example, but it could make things alot easier for you and often it strengthens good friendships. The cost is a set of good street/track tires ( like the PSS ), another set of rims, but then once there you can switch to a set of R6s. As said earlier, once you go a couple of seconds faster, pretty hard to go back.

 

[Steve M]

Thanks for the replies, I just can't stop deliberating with myself over this issue. I've seen other guys run R6's and drive back and forth also, but not on Vipers. Thats why I'm asking here. I guess I could try it and see, I don't drive on the street anymore other than the commute to and from the track, but what are the cops gonna say if they notice (no tread), and will I destoy the paint? .....also PSC's UTQG is 80, R6 is 40. are they really only half as long lasting,... like how many track days/sessions are the R6's good for on a Viper. I apologize for being so OCD about this when there are so many bigger problems in the world, but I don't golf, hunt, or fish. Viper and track days are my only hobby, so I like to do it FULL BLAST!

You can only compare tire wear numbers if they are from the same manufacturer...the numbers mean different things to the different manufacturers, or so I've been told.

 

[Allan]

Steve M , yes and no, UTQG--universal tire quality grade, is based on a standardized test on how much a given tire wears in comparison to a baseline tire (standard being 100) so 150 means the tire will last 1-1/2 times longer than the baseline tire. 200 would last twice as long an so on. So 80 would be 80%, and 40 would be 40% of the 100. Manufacturers do fudge the numbers a little, but I don't think so for these tires.(nothing to gain from deception here) - like a 740 on a michelin harmony. I'm a tire dealer as a sideline business, so I kinda need to know that stuff. ( I think I'm my own best customer sometimes ) We just don't sell any of this track rubber so I'm in the dark on that. That's why the post and dumb questions.

 

[hou99gts]

I would guess you would throw more rocks on the paint with R6's. If it was a short trip to the track, I think you would be okay, but at the distances you are talking about, I would advise against it. Since track days are your only hobby and you don't drive your Viper on the street anymore, I would suggest investing in a trailer and getting a set of R6's.

 

[Allan]

Mr. Bill Pemberton, I'm the only guy in my area (60 mile radius) that isn't a poser. -meaning that I actually do something with my car besides look at it with my buddies while drinking beer. I'm in La Junta, Colorado. It's a small town, nobody to pool with. That is a good idea though, but unfortunately won't work for me. I do have another set of rims already, but no easy way to transport them. I do have helpful track buddies that I run with, (Porsche / Lotus guys) but they all live in the bigger cities. I just don't want to buy a truck and trailer to do this ( half the fun is gettin' there! ) ---already have five vehicles, no more room, and can't afford any more insurance! I really appreciate the input though, thank you.

 

[Allan]

Eric, do you run R6's or what? .....If so , how much more killer does the car get around the corners compared to PSC's.............I really don't wanna cruise my car on a trailer

 

[MTGTS]

I drive around on R100's but I'm crazy. Gotta check the weather before you go out. I drive it maybe once a month on the street though. I have a truck and trailer for when I'm actually heading to an track event.

 

[CA97GTS]

I have seen some Vette guys pull one of those mini trailers behind the Vette, they actually
Make a hitch for Vette's....
Carry a set of tires, toolbox, and filled air canisters.....
Ya it looks funky- And you gotta slow, but cheap alternative- they even have fold
Up mini trailers that fold in half and take up only a few square feet in the garage.

 

[Allan]

Alot of Vette guys do that mini-trailer thing, but I don't think the Viper will accomodate that set-up. Can't mount a hitch to the diffuser.....bummer.

 

[Allan]

MTGTS, I too am a crazy person, that's why I just can't leave well enough alone. I want to have my cake, and eat it too.

 

[Leslie]

I have the same dilemma, I drive to/from each track.
Right now I run Toyo R888s. My challenge has been finding 18's all aound, and now can't find Toyos in stock anywhere.
I might have to go back to PS2s.
What size wheels?
Have you tried Kumho V710s?

I have seen one lap of america viper guys using the tire hitches.

 

[Luke@tirerack]

I have the same dilemma, I drive to/from each track.
Right now I run Toyo R888s. My challenge has been finding 18's all aound, and now can't find Toyos in stock anywhere.
I might have to go back to PS2s.
What size wheels?
Have you tried Kumho V710s?

I have seen one lap of america viper guys using the tire hitches.

Leslie .. .if you are who I think aren't you local to Tire Rack... we have the R888's in stock right now

 

[Allan]

Leslie, I',m OEM gen III sizes (six spokes) so that limits my choices of tires for the rear. -sadly no V710's for me. Hoosier's, PSC, PSS, PS2, nitto invo, are the only current choices. Kumho XS is discontinued in that size, Nitto NT05 is only 335 wide, no Nitto NT01 available for the rear.

 

[hou99gts]

Eric, do you run R6's or what? .....If so , how much more killer does the car get around the corners compared to PSC's.............I really don't wanna cruise my car on a trailer

I run PSC's Allan. There are a few ACR owners around Houston that run R6's now (that started off on PSC's) and say the R6's are much faster. I've never run R6's (mostly because I am scared I will like them)...

 

[Luke@tirerack]

wow ... a bunch of issues in this thread

ok here we go

Street driving a semi-slick r-compound R6 vs. a treaded R-Compound Sport Cup

#1.) the R6 will NOT last anywhere near half as long as the Sport Cup ... not even close

#2.) heat cycling will help but, even getting 2000 miles is unheard of with the R6

#3.) the R6 has very little puncture resistance which is the biggest issue with street driving

#4.) yes the R6 will sand blast the rockers on your car much worse than the Sport Cup

#5.) rain ... R6 = stay home / Sport Cup = slow down

#6.) treaded R-Compound tires are not as fast as the semi-slicks like the R6 but, wear noticeably better

#7.) The R6, as well as the Sport Cup are DOT compliant R-Compound tires and legal to drive on any street in North America. Do to the lack of an ECE code the R6 is not legal to be street driven or imported into the Middle East or most of Europe. The "COMPETITION USE ONLY" branding on the R6 has allowed some to get past local customs agents but, I have no doubt if caught on the street there would be serious consequences for the driver.

#8.) Pilot Super Sports are fantastic but, not r-compound fast

#9.) two words "tire-trailer" ... you can get them unassembled for under $400

 

[Leslie]

Leslie .. .if you are who I think aren't you local to Tire Rack... we have the R888's in stock right now

Thanks Luke! Austin took my order today!!!

 

[Leslie]

Leslie, I',m OEM gen III sizes (six spokes) so that limits my choices of tires for the rear. -sadly no V710's for me. Hoosier's, PSC, PSS, PS2, nitto invo, are the only current choices. Kumho XS is discontinued in that size, Nitto NT05 is only 335 wide, no Nitto NT01 available for the rear.

No Toyo's either?

 

[Allan]

Luke-Tire Rack dude, Thank you so much for the reality-check info. After all said n done, it looks like I'll stay with the PSC's.

 

[Leslie]

Ok, glad we both figured out a tire!

Someday I will get a trailer, but for now I enjoy driving to the track

 

[Richie7]

"#5.) rain ... R6 = stay home / Sport Cup = slow down"
You can track sport cups in the rain?

 

[Allan]

I personally haven't run PSC's in the rain, some people say they're OK, some don't.

 

[Leslie]

"#5.) rain ... R6 = stay home / Sport Cup = slow down"
You can track sport cups in the rain?

Think he's talking about on the street.

 

[Allan]

Says "track" in the quote.