Introduction, and some general questions.

[jmsrx]

Hi,
My name is James and I'm new to the forum. I'm not a Viper owner but I am seriously considering one for next year. I've been a car enthusiast for years and have owned a few decent cars imo. I started off years ago with a silver Mazda 323GTX. It was a fun car. AWD 4 cylinder turbo that surprised a few of the guys that opted for the lower end Camaros/Mustangs of the day. Since then, I have owned a 1990 Probe GT (OK but not a great car, the paint job was really bad), 2004 Infiniti G35 coupe (relly nice for the price), 2005 subaru STI (lots of fun, especially on slick surfaces), 2005 Civic Si coupe (not great performace, but still fun to throw around for fwd), 1993 Supra twin turbo BPU++++ (great looking and sounding car, good performance with the upgrades), 2006 Evo IX SE (great for paved corners, always put a smile on my face), and a 2004 RX8 (not great straight line, but very tossable).
I now only have the RX8. The others have gone so that I can save for a big step up next year. The wife gave me permission to spend later if I save now. The cars I am considering are the Z06, GTR, Viper ACR, or a 996 Turbo/GT2/GT3 or possibly a 2007 997 GT3 (if the prices come down for a low mileage used one).
I know that there will be some pretty strong opinions on this forum and I do appreciate any and all. But the main thing I would like would be specific info on the Viper. The performace of the ACR really surprised me. The R&T 4 Track article was an eye opener. But I can get all the performance info from the internet. I'm hoping that you can provide me with the bad stuff that you might hate to admit. Things like frequency in the shop, fit and finish, comfort for longer cruises. The car I purchase will be tracked occasionaly. The closest track to me is Hallett near Tulsa, OK. That's a two hour drive and I would not trailer the vehicle. This would also be my sunny day cruising car. The wife and I like to cruise around, sometimes for a couple of hours just for fun. I know that the ACR is overkill for just occasional track use. But the thought of a Viper that can plant all that power down in the corners is very appealing to me. I loved the handling in my Evo and just want a car with quite a bit more grunt but not a huge loss in handling. Sorry for the long post, and I really do appreciate any input you can give. I plan on lurking around the forum and searching for alot of information before I make the big decision next year.
Thanks again,
James

 

[AFL in NJ]

Dear James,

You'll certainly find the ACR will blow your mind as its capabilities are near endless and it draws attention like rolling a nuclear missile down main street. If you're looking for a car that will dominate at the track, the ACR is the car for you, and it's not that bad to cruise in either...at least for less than 10 hours at a time. Oh yeah, be prepared to smile a lot!!

Regards,
Aaron

 

[jmsrx]

Thanks Aaron,
I'm sure that if I buy an ACR, I will not take it anywhere near it's limits at the track. As a matter of fact, I will take the "death threat" in the owner's manual seriously and complete a couple of driving schools out at Hallett with the vehicle. From what I have read, this is not a vehicle you jump into and master. It's a car you can continue to get better in for many track days to come. I like that concept and hope I would never get bored with the car.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

James,

Welcome, we always like new blood here not like some of the other sites out there .

You definitely come from a diverse back ground and would certainly love the Viper. The ACR will blow you away even if you thought the Evos and RX-8's were toss-able. Fortunately you are in luck when it comes to your choices as not only can ***** Da P. and company offer you any help or information you would ever want about the Viper we also sell and support ALL of your OTHER considerations. So if you have specific questions for us just PM Bill or myself and we can help with any of these offerings!

Welcome and enjoy yourself!

 

[jmsrx]

Everybody likes pictures. I have some pictures of current and a few past rides. Not Vipers, but please enjoy anyway.
Thanks,
James

 

[jmsrx]

James,

Welcome, we always like new blood here not like some of the other sites out there .

You definitely come from a diverse back ground and would certainly love the Viper. The ACR will blow you away even if you thought the Evos and RX-8's were toss-able. Fortunately you are in luck when it comes to your choices as not only can ***** Da P. and company offer you any help or information you would ever want about the Viper we also sell and support ALL of your OTHER considerations. So if you have specific questions for us just PM Bill or myself and we can help with any of these offerings!

Welcome and enjoy yourself!

Thank you,
I have had good luck with EvolutionM forums and it looks like the community here is just as good. Every forum will have a few crack heads, but I've really read some great posts just looking around on Viper Club. I think diversity is great. I know that I have owned Japanese cars for the most part. But don't get me wrong, I know that the Viper and the z06 are not your old school straight line only American muscle of yesterday. These cars are the real deal, and are at the top of my short list for consideration.
I apprecaite the great welcome,
James

 

[jmsrx]

Quick question for those in the know,
Is the wing on the ACR removable as well as adjustable?
Thanks,
James

 

[mike & juli]

James, you have had some incredible cars (LOVE the G35...and who can go wrong with a SUPRA??).
Sounds like you are doing a good job researching and asking questions, just wanted to welcome you here...there is a TON of talent here and well-informed individuals...including Mark Jorgensen who invited you to ask Bill Pemberton of Woodhouse questions as well. Keep asking...and GOOD LUCK to you! Once you get the VIPER FEVER???? THERE IS NO CURE~~~~~juli

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

You can remove the wing element easily but the uprights would stay without some work. The wing is fully adjustable, and VERY light.

The splitter would be some work though as the tethers and fasteners are many. I personally feel that if you disable one you HAVE to disable the other as the aero of the car is de stabilized if you are shooting for those elusive top speeds.

I have been 200 in a S/C car a few times and although I love the 08' I am not sure that is going to happen very easily.

Quick question for those in the know,
Is the wing on the ACR removable as well as adjustable?
Thanks,
James

 

[Venomiss]

Welcome!
There's a bunch of information on the search and many here who have ACR's that can give you information.
In case you didn't see this already.

Here's a good place to start complete with video. Pictures and stats at the bottom of the page.

Viper Club of America

and if you decide to get a Viper early(you never know) be sure to take your car to VOI in Detroit at the end of August. Only happens about once every two years and this is the 10th.

 

[RTTTTed]

You didn't say if you're interested in new or used. Viper reliability is outstanding! If you're contemplating going after big power then Viper is your only choice. 700rwhp with reliability won't be found with any other stock short block.

The new stock Viper ACR has 540rwhp and aftermarket options like lightweight wheels and brake rotors. The aerodynamics slow the car down considerably from the 200+ "ordinary" Viper's top speed. Viper maintenance is about the same as an ordinary car (so much for Porsche). You mentioned that you hoped not to get bored with the car?

My choice was to buy a highly modified Gen2 Viper. With well over 700rwhp I've never even hooked up my Nitrous kit. I have driven 8-12sec. cars all my adult life and the street tired 10 sec. Viper manages to scare hell out of me on occaission. Since owning this car I've actually decided that a car can sometimes have TOO MUCH power. If I do get bored, I will turn on my Nitrous kit and scare the hell out of myself again.

I did spend a day at the track for driving instruction and learned that it'll take a few days of practice to be able to accomlish smooth control inputs. My Viper will eat a pro Mazda in corners with only the addittion of slicks to my street car. The Viper reacts violently to driver inputs because it is so much the sports car. Nothing has been de-tuned for bad drivers, no TC to put on the brakes, no stability or electronic suspension to soften the ride when off the track, no computer speed controls. Even the stock Vipers are a handful and once modified they need the driver to be his best as well.

Like all the magazine tests, it takes an experienced driver to make the car perform to it's abilities. The track article you refered to was with an ACR. The "ordinary" Viper may have outperformed in the two tests that the ACR did not win.

The Vipers are the easiest to modify and then nothing will keep up (except for the exotics with a million dollars into them. Add spoilers and lightweight components and build your own 'ACR'?

I think the only Viper that would be close to 'boring you' would be a stock older one.

Ted

 

[jmsrx]

James, you have had some incredible cars (LOVE the G35...and who can go wrong with a SUPRA??).
Sounds like you are doing a good job researching and asking questions, just wanted to welcome you here...there is a TON of talent here and well-informed individuals...including Mark Jorgensen who invited you to ask Bill Pemberton of Woodhouse questions as well. Keep asking...and GOOD LUCK to you! Once you get the VIPER FEVER???? THERE IS NO CURE~~~~~juli

Thanks Juli,
I really have enjoyed most of the cars I've owned. They have each been very capable in their own niche of performance. The Supra was my favorite in the looks department and was the closest to the Viper in the type of performance it offered. I relly hated to sell it, but sometimes you have to sacrifice to get something better. Viper fever is pretty catchy. I've always liked the looks and the info I've seen lately has shown me that it is more than just a straight line monster.
Thanks again for the welcome,
James

You can remove the wing element easily but the uprights would stay without some work. The wing is fully adjustable, and VERY light.

The splitter would be some work though as the tethers and fasteners are many. I personally feel that if you disable one you HAVE to disable the other as the aero of the car is de stabilized if you are shooting for those elusive top speeds.

I have been 200 in a S/C car a few times and although I love the 08' I am not sure that is going to happen very easily.

I'm not sure that I would go to alot of trouble to remove the wing. I'm not looking for a permanent removal, just trying to appease the wife who has told me that she likes the looks of the car except for "that big ugly wing", as she puts it. I would only want to remove it if she and I were cruising around. But if the pillars remained, it would look pretty weird imo. So, if I end up buying one, she will just have to get used to it.
I know that you have to give up that awesome grip if you want to hit the higher top end speeds. I would rather trade that top speed for the incredible downforce. Taking corners quickly is more my kind of driving.
Thanks for the reply,
James

Welcome!
There's a bunch of information on the search and many here who have ACR's that can give you information.
In case you didn't see this already.

Here's a good place to start complete with video. Pictures and stats at the bottom of the page.

Viper Club of America

and if you decide to get a Viper early(you never know) be sure to take your car to VOI in Detroit at the end of August. Only happens about once every two years and this is the 10th.

Thanks for the welcome Venomiss,
I appreciate the help that I have already received. Looking forward to many great discussions.
Thanks again,
James

 

[jmsrx]

You didn't say if you're interested in new or used. Viper reliability is outstanding! If you're contemplating going after big power then Viper is your only choice. 700rwhp with reliability won't be found with any other stock short block.

The new stock Viper ACR has 540rwhp and aftermarket options like lightweight wheels and brake rotors. The aerodynamics slow the car down considerably from the 200+ "ordinary" Viper's top speed. Viper maintenance is about the same as an ordinary car (so much for Porsche). You mentioned that you hoped not to get bored with the car?

My choice was to buy a highly modified Gen2 Viper. With well over 700rwhp I've never even hooked up my Nitrous kit. I have driven 8-12sec. cars all my adult life and the street tired 10 sec. Viper manages to scare hell out of me on occaission. Since owning this car I've actually decided that a car can sometimes have TOO MUCH power. If I do get bored, I will turn on my Nitrous kit and scare the hell out of myself again.

I did spend a day at the track for driving instruction and learned that it'll take a few days of practice to be able to accomlish smooth control inputs. My Viper will eat a pro Mazda in corners with only the addittion of slicks to my street car. The Viper reacts violently to driver inputs because it is so much the sports car. Nothing has been de-tuned for bad drivers, no TC to put on the brakes, no stability or electronic suspension to soften the ride when off the track, no computer speed controls. Even the stock Vipers are a handful and once modified they need the driver to be his best as well.

Like all the magazine tests, it takes an experienced driver to make the car perform to it's abilities. The track article you refered to was with an ACR. The "ordinary" Viper may have outperformed in the two tests that the ACR did not win.

The Vipers are the easiest to modify and then nothing will keep up (except for the exotics with a million dollars into them. Add spoilers and lightweight components and build your own 'ACR'?

I think the only Viper that would be close to 'boring you' would be a stock older one.

Ted

Thanks Ted,
I hope we did not get off on the wrong foot in the "driven" section. I appreciate the info.
Cheers
James

 

[Warfang]

Head bumping aside... welcome to the party!

 

[jmsrx]

Head bumping aside... welcome to the party!

Not so much bumped as graized. Thanks
James

 

[Warfang]

Not so much bumped as graized. Thanks
James

The car is a brawler, so you gotta be one too. Fight first... make up with beer later. It's alll good!

 

[RTTTTed]

As you noticed in the other thread I have all types of cars in my yard (20+) and have tried them all. The Viper is the fastest, and I love fast! I am biased towards the Viper. "There's no substitute for cubic inches" was always the motto at the track. The Viper proves it. To me stock doesn't mean much since I modify all my cars.

You said you enjoyed all your Musclecars, but if it's "Too much power" you're after, start with a Viper.

Here's one of my older Street Racers I built,

You must be registered for see images

Here's the 3 or the cars that I currently drive, with a modified Turbo Daytona off to the side. The 3 in the pic all have at least 500hp/Viper 720rwhp (without the Nitrous). The Duster had a 250hp Nitrous kit and the Stealth can go to 21psi boost. I drive the Viper at every opportunity.

You must be registered for see images

I hope that you got some use out of my info.



Ted

 

[jmsrx]

Thanks Ted,
It will make me feel better about the purchase knowing that the car can make good and reliable HP increases with some fairly inexpensive mods. And, of course, if you want to go crazy with FI, you have that option. If I go with a Viper I will drive it stock for some time. Then, I will probably just make some breathing changes and get a tune. Intake, exhaust, and a tune should be fairly inexpensive and net a pretty good HP increase.

Quick question for anyone who may know. Is this comparison chart from R&T pretty accurate on the performance figures for the 2008 SRT-10 vs. the ACR? I know that you will get a huge increase in drag with the ACR because of the incredible downforce. I didn't know at what point that you could see the negative effect of that drag on straight line acceleration. This chart has the 0-60 times dead even and the ACR besting the SRT-10 by 0.1 in the 1/4 mile. I know that the top speed is decreased drastically in the ACR, but I don't know at what speed/distance the ACR will start to lag behind.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0408_evilTwins_viper.pdf

Thanks,
James

 

[RTTTTed]

The advantage of used is you can just buy a Viper that has the mods you want already installed, paid for and tuned/perfected for only a few thousand extra. Since the exhaust (headers, hi-flow cats and catback) can cost an easy $3-7000 ... the Roe sc kit installed with w/m, airbox, etc. is another easy $1o,ooo, Equivalent 08 ACR lightweight brakes $6,000 ... Lighweight wheels $7,000, halfshafts, forged pistons, new engine, I figure my car had at leasst $50,000 aftermarket parts and instal which I paid an extra $5,000 for! I've since added another $10,000 in stereo, electronics, 14" lighweight brake kit, etc.

The stock Gen 2-3 Vipers are slower than my Duster on Nitrous and my TT Stealth. The 08 Viper barely faster than my Stealth @ 16psi.

I had an article featured in Domestic Driver - A bi-monthly online magazine featuring Chrysler, Dodge, Ford, and GM Cars from 1980+ called "Ultimate Street Machine". Maybe I'll post the text on a thread. My wife's Ultimate is a Ford Escape. It's all about likes and dislikes. My son loves all my cars, all my daughters love my Duster because it's an automatic. To each his own.

Ted

 

[jmsrx]

The advantage of used is you can just buy a Viper that has the mods you want already installed, paid for and tuned/perfected for only a few thousand extra. Since the exhaust (headers, hi-flow cats and catback) can cost an easy $3-7000 ... the Roe sc kit installed with w/m, airbox, etc. is another easy $1o,ooo, Equivalent 08 ACR lightweight brakes $6,000 ... Lighweight wheels $7,000, halfshafts, forged pistons, new engine, I figure my car had at leasst $50,000 aftermarket parts and instal which I paid an extra $5,000 for! I've since added another $10,000 in stereo, electronics, 14" lighweight brake kit, etc.

The stock Gen 2-3 Vipers are slower than my Duster on Nitrous and my TT Stealth. The 08 Viper barely faster than my Stealth @ 16psi.

I had an article featured in Domestic Driver - A bi-monthly online magazine featuring Chrysler, Dodge, Ford, and GM Cars from 1980+ called "Ultimate Street Machine". Maybe I'll post the text on a thread. My wife's Ultimate is a Ford Escape. It's all about likes and dislikes. My son loves all my cars, all my daughters love my Duster because it's an automatic. To each his own.

Ted

That's what I did with my Supra (of course you can't buy a new Supra anyway, but I could have bought a stock one). The only problem was that it never felt like mine. I guess I would have felt better if I had either installed each mod myself or had it installed by someone I knew and trusted. I always worry about inheriting someone elses problem. If I could pick up somenone elses 2008 SRT-10 or ACR next year in stock condition with less than 5000 miles, I would probably jump on that. There are a few people that change out cars on a yearly basis without putting many miles on them. If anyone is planning on doing this, definitely let me know.
Thanks,
James

 

[RTTTTed]

I would agree with you, except for the huge expense of modern mods, tuning, etc.

When I built my 440 Duster I did everything (engine, trans, chassis, susp. mods, exhaust, stereo, paint and body) myself. Took me the equivalent of 2 full years labor spread out over 8 years. Cost me well over $25,000 including many of my own parts and many parts I built myself. Now I haven't be able to sell it for $25,000 and it was appraised at $32,000.

This time I bought one that was perfect and had all the expensive stuff finished. Instead of a mismash, the engine was done by Larry Macedo, Sean Roe did the firmware update and because of the VCA (?) only good work was done on the car. My car was tracked a little and won trophies at V1o Nats. Can't get much higher recommendations than that. The mods I've been doing to the car are speakers, Buetooth Stereo, removable cupholders, larger lighweight brakes, PS2s, HID lights, Roe front facia scoop, Wideband & Laptop hookup for Roe tuning, built in Radar Detector, DRL, Tire Pressure/Temp Monitor System and ordered a Hennessey Venom Rear Spoiler. I perfected the mods already done when I bought the car and improved some of them.

Doing just the wheels, brakes and sc would have set my wallet back a year. Besides, the money for the stuff already on my car would buy me a second modified Viper, He he. (Don't mention it to the wife, eh?) Just kidding, but if I sell my Duster, Demon, and a couple Daytonas, I would keep my wallet open for another modded Viper or SRT10 pickup if I found a screaming deal.

Ted

 

[jmsrx]

I really want something with a factory warranty at the moment. That's another reason I want to buy new or slightly used/stock. I'll have plenty of time to mod while I'm enjoying getting used to the car. The ACR is looking more appealing to me every day.

I saw an E-bay ad the other day that said ACR Viper but it was a performance shop that just bought a couple of SRT-10s with the aero package and was offering their own performance packages at an upcharge. They had three different packages starting at bolt-ons and going up to a TT package. I wish I could remember the name of the shop. I think it started with an "M". The ad expired yesterday I guess. They might be a reputable shop, but I would hate to lose my warranty from the very start.
Cheers,
James

 

[2001-V10 Power Nut]

Maybe Macedo in Orlando, florida??

 

[jmsrx]

I don't think that was it, but thanks for the post. I know I'll think of it eventually.
James

 

[jmsrx]

OK. I've made my decision. The looks and obvious performance of the vehicle have outweighed what I have heard about comfort and possible repair issues. I want to get an ACR. I won't be able to buy until next Summer though. I like the looks of black with the red ACR stripe or the double stripes along with the ACR stripe. I also like the looks of the snakeskin green with the black double stripes. Is the ACR availale in any color combination? I have only seen black and/or red color combos so far. Am I going to be out of luck if I can't order one until next Summer? Do I need to put down a refundable deposit now?
Thanks
James

 

[InjectTheVenom]

It is not available in any combination, but if you take your order to Prefix they can custom paint it for you any way you like.

 

[jmsrx]

It is not available in any combination, but if you take your order to Prefix they can custom paint it for you any way you like.

Thanks for the quick reply.
James