Mystery VIN #, thoughts?

[ThinkingViper]

I looked at a 1996 RT/10 last weekend and noted that the car had two VIN #'s. The vin on the windshield frame matched the VIN on the title, however the VIN inside the drivers door was different. The private seller claims to have bought the car from a dealer with 1,000 miles and is the original owner with NO repair work ever done to the door. I did a search on carfax, and here are the results:

First VIN (on the windshield frame and title) states that the car was registered in April of 1996 as a corporate fleet vehicle and then shows another title or registration issued in December of 1996 with 1,000 miles. Otherwise the carfax report is clean. Carfax reports "at least 1 owner". This matches the information from the seller.

Second VIN (on the drivers door) states this is a 1 owner vehicle purchased in January of 96, with a second title issued in April of 1997 (paid off loan?).
The report for this second VIN is clean also.

Thus, two VIN's both with a 'clean' report from carfax on the same car. I spoke with a well-known viper repair manager in my area (per recommendation of Motor City Viper Association), and he shared the following scenerios:

A) There was a mix-up directly from the factory in order to assure a color match (the VIN #'s are only 40 apart). Have any of you EVER heard or experienced this????
B) The VIN # associated with the drivers side door was totaled and parted out, thus no carfax report. If this is the case, the door was put on the car AFTER 1997.

Anyone care to share their thoughts?

 

[Steve-Indy]

Try a search of BOTH VIN's through a Dodge Dealer's computer...any be careful !!!

 

[jkracer9]

You might as well check the motor vin # to assure that the block belongs to the car. Who knows you might have 3 different numbers.
let us know.

 

[Wild Bill]

Can't answer your question but my gut feeling is RUN don't walk away from this one. I spent over 3 months searching daily before I found the perfect car the SCREAMED BUY ME!

There are a lot of good Vipers out in the market place just keep looking

Bill

 

[joe117]

If the door donor car was totaled and parted out, I think the Carfax would show that vin as a wreck.
If Carfax didn't show the door donor as a wreck, then someone could have fixed it up instead of parting it out and it would show up as a clean Viper. That isn't supposed to happen.
A factory mix up is, I guess the most likely considering the dates you have to work with. However, would the factory have doors ready for installation on the assembly line, that were 40# apart? I don't know. How many are they working on at any one time?

 

[joe117]

There is a number on the engine but is it a vin?

 

[Janni]

The doors came off a different car....

 

[ThinkingViper]

To answer your questions:

Steve: Both VIN's were run through a dodge computer also.
The VIN on the frame shows warranty work completed through 99. The VIN on the door shows work through 97.

JKracer: I dont' have the engine VIN, but IF I decide to take this to the next level (Tech Inspection), you can bet I'll double check all VINs. Thanks

Bill: I tend to agree, but if the car is parted out and this guy is lieing, I'd like to think I could (possibly) stop someone else from making a mistake. I realize it's a "buyer beware" market, but I feel some obligation to follow this through (I know, silly probably, but I feel it's the honorable thing to do).

Joe: It's my understanding that if the car was parted out without an insurance claim it will NOT show up on carfax. It is also my understanding that the car should have 5 VIN #'s all matching (including the engine). The repair manager stated that it is very possibly a factory mix-up as numbers 40 apart would be made within the same month (even week), and that color matching was an issue with the Gen 1's. Anyone want to verify that?

Thanks for all your thoughts,
Miss. Columbo

 

[joe117]

Parted out without a claim would leave no record. That would be unusual but it could happen.
Also, anyone replacing a door, fixing up a damaged car, would probably be smart enough to remove the sticker.

 

[Janni]

Doors are easy enough to replace and there are easy replacements to be found (i.e. race car conversions) I have never heard of a mistake like this coming out of CAAP. The stickers on the doors cannot be removed without cutting them out. I believe that if you look further, you'll find other evidences of previous damage.

Life is too short to buy a yucky Viper - especially when there are MANY nice examples out there owned by enthusiastic VCA members. Unless you are stealing this one, I'd leave it alone.

 

[snowmann]

There are soooo many Vipers for sale now and soooo many are sooooo cheap. Why the heck would you even mess around with a questionable Viper? Get hold of your emotions, walk away and wait for the right deal - it will come around. The worst feeling is buying a car that has some doubt in the back of your head, plus when you try to sell the car your going to look like a big liar and you will have a heck of a time selling. I would imagine by the time you decide to sell there will be a very good number of wrecked Vipers, that sell for dirt cheap - don't put your Viper in that bin.

 

[Hockeysnake]

I have no idea why people put so much faith in Carfax. They are wrong alot. The only thing Carfax is good for is to get a starting point as to where the car has been. Then you need to call the DMV in those states and for a small fee they will send you all of the documents from that Vin# that they have on file. That is the ONLY way to really find out the history on a car.

Dodge dealers records are sometimes incomplete and missing quite a bit of info as well.

 

[ThinkingViper]

I assure you, I am not interested in the car. My hopes were that I could find out enough information about the VINs to help another buyer.

Maybe the VINs are an honest factory mix-up (doubtful in my mind), but given the fact that the car doesn't have a hard top (3K), I'd need to spend 2K to change out the yellow wheels (personal preference), and there is a coolant smell after running (no warranty), the 33K asking price quickly becomes 36K (w/o a warranty). A 36K with matching VIN's in excellent condition is in the ballpark, but a car with questionable VINs isn't even a consideration in my book (regardless of price).

I realize it's a buyer beware market, soooooo... If you're looking at a mustard/ketchup combo from Michigan, buyer beware! However: If you like the mustard/ketchup combo this might be a good deal (assuming you can live with the VIN history). Hopefully I may have helped another prospective buyer, maybe not, but you've all helped me by sharing your experiences.

Thanks,
Cheryl

 

[GR8_ASP]

I'm still thinking it was a mix up at the plant. Possible that 2 cars were in the repair area at the same time both having the door removed and of the same color? Seems possible to me. Only three colors and they were done in batches. 1996 was also the first year at Connor so it could have been new plant blues.

40 numbers different could be adjacent cars on line. VINs are not sequential. So it could even have been a labeling issue. As they say shiet happens.