New '04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

[moldowan]

New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

My last post detailed my stupidity by locking my keys in the trunk. Thankfully Tom Sessions was able to give me some additional advice. He told me to check the crank bolt and sure enough it was finger loose.Went to the dodge dealer here and asked if they have any viper techs- NO viper techs there but they said they have worked on many (actually their only viper tech quit) They said they were familiar with the issue and to tow it it and they will fix it.

Question #1 SHOULD I TIGHTEN BEST I CAN AND DRIVE TO DEALER 10 MILES OR NOT TAKE THE CHANCE AND TOW IT.

question #2 IF I TOW WHAT SHOULD I BE AWARE OFF (FLATBED)

question #3 WHAT OTHER PROBLEM AREAS SHOULD THE DEALER "LOOK INTO" SINCE IT WILL BE THERE!

Many thanks for you help!!!!!!
Best regards,
Marc Moldowan
San Antonio

 

[kmg99]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

Mark -

Just have it towed and have the dealer deal with it. If something goes wrong, or already has you might be blamed if you tighten it and drive it to the dealer.

TG

 

[quick2tr]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

I would just tighten it up and drive it.

 

[Art 138]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

Tighten and drive to the dealer: I checked mine before DLM supercharged it and its not that hard to get to. I worry about flatbed drivers with those crude chains. If the flatbed does not have leveling boards,you risk damage to the chin loading/unloading. Put in first,emergency brake on and tighen up. That will be enough to get it to the dealer.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

I say tow it just to be overly safe. If any damage is done while being towed, its the responsibility of the wrecker. As soon as they accept delivery of your car, its their responsibilty. I have seen a tow driver refuse to pick up a lowered car b/c he didnt want the responsibility if he ripped the bumper, side skirts, etc. off while loading it

 

[Viper Specialty]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

MOLDOWAN- Feel free to give me a call, and I will explain the procedure for tightening. I WOULD NOT have a dealer do it if you have a torque wrench and are capable of it yourself, save the crank being already damaged. I have seen too many cases of dealers skimping on Tq wrenches, and then the damn thing falls off AGAIN, ruining it for sure on the second go around.

Do not drive the car however until it is tightened correctly. ART 138 is close, but a little off- use 4th gear, not 1st.

 

[Volltage]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

Tow it actullay it would be on a flatbed. Mine had just came off yesterday. You can read about it, " I am really starting to hate my Viper"

 

[Steve-Indy]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

In my opinion, there are a couple of other issues here since your Viper is a 2004.

Run the last eight digits of your VIN thru this site

http://www.dodge.com/webselfservice/dodge/index.jsp?screenName=recall&country=us&emailUrl=goToEmailForm%28%27R%27%29

to see if your car is on the list for "issues"...such as the "cam bolt" (sprocket) problem...and, ask dealer to do the same via their D-C computer, and keep a copy...just for YOUR peace of mind (and RECORDS).

I suspect that you have the 14mmx102mm "long, skinny" bolt in youp crank damper that takes the 130 ft-lbs of torque...BUT, are YOU sure????...and, even if you are, why should YOU take the rap for and damage that has been/or may be done later if you "fix it" and drive it????? That is why you have a warranty.

Ask your Texas VCA for a dealer referral...one with a certified Viper Tech to be on the safe side.

A flatbed ride for an SRT-10 is not the worst thing in the world...especially if you are not particularly inclined to do your own work.

Just a couple of thoughts...not an argument.

 

[SweetRed04]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

MOLDOWAN- Feel free to give me a call, and I will explain the procedure for tightening. I WOULD NOT have a dealer do it if you have a torque wrench and are capable of it yourself, save the crank being already damaged. I have seen too many cases of dealers skimping on Tq wrenches, and then the damn thing falls off AGAIN, ruining it for sure on the second go around.

Do not drive the car however until it is tightened correctly. ART 138 is close, but a little off- use 4th gear, not 1st.

ART 138 was ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, 1st gear is the best to use to keep the car secure. Simply put, if in 1st the engine must turn more than twice as many revolutions for each inch the car travels compared to it being in 4th.

I would remove the bolt, see if it can be freely threaded in, and if so, torque it to spec (the dealer should be glad to give it to you) and then drive it to the dealer to install it. I'd ask to see which Loctite is factory specified, watch the mechanic clean the crank threads and bolt, air dry them, and watch him apply the Loctite and torque it up. It should be a 15 minute job (5 minutes drying time).

 

[kwiksilver]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

That's why Final gts said fourth, because fourth turns less for the same movement, then it also turns harder. Like a bigger anchor on the drive shaft.

 

[VIPER D]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

be careful if the balancer got loose it could of dammaged the crank


I had a repurchase due to it.

make the dealer aware of it just incase it starts to leak oil.


vd..

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

If you have the larger bolt and use 1st gear prepare to watch the car move. Use 4th and the parking brake will hold like you need. Spoken by someone who tried first and then changed to 4th.

 

[moldowan]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

Ok,
So what are the 2 bolt size'z that It might have? And how on earth do I tell if the balancer has come loose or other damage has happened already?
I think I will tighten enough to get to dealer then let them worry about it.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

ART 138 was ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, 1st gear is the best to use to keep the car secure. Simply put, if in 1st the engine must turn more than twice as many revolutions for each inch the car travels compared to it being in 4th.

I would remove the bolt, see if it can be freely threaded in, and if so, torque it to spec (the dealer should be glad to give it to you) and then drive it to the dealer to install it. I'd ask to see which Loctite is factory specified, watch the mechanic clean the crank threads and bolt, air dry them, and watch him apply the Loctite and torque it up. It should be a 15 minute job (5 minutes drying time).

SweetRed04, Sorry, you are both INCORRECT.

Fourth gear is used because is has ~1/3 the torque multiplication of first, but is still on the mainshaft, not the secondary shaft where damage can occur (Mainly a Gen-1/2 T-56 issue...but why chance it with 5/6/R) In first gear, that little 130 ft/pounds to torque the bolt on an 04 turns into ELEVEN HUNDRED (1100) pound feet of torque at the wheels. This is more than enough to move the car, even with the e-brake on. On the other hand, 4th gear only produces 400 pound feet. On a 1992-2003 damper bolt, you are making 2400 pound feet/767 pound feet, respectively.



I still recomend doing this himself, if he is capable of it. That way, you KNOW it was done right.

Here is how I would handle this:

-Remove Accessory Belt/Airbox
-Remove Balancer (chances are its already loose)
-Check for visable damage
-Put balancer on by hand- it should be a tight fit, not able to be slid all the way on by hand.
-If OK, clean up the bolt threads, and clean up the threads inside the crank with a degreaser/Q-tips/Rags.
-Put car in FOURTH gear, pull e-brake firmly.
-Apply RED, and ONLY RED Loctite to the bolt, and screw into the crank by hand. (clockwise)
-Torque bolt to 130 pound feet (should be a 13/16 head hex bolt)
-Check the damn torque again
-Reinstall drive belt/Airbox.

Let the car sit for 1/2 hour before starting it (Initial setup of Loctite). After 1/2 hour, start up the car and let it warm up. DO NOT rev or Drive it yet. After warm, shut off the car, and let it sit for 1 more hour (Hardening rate accellerated by Warm crank). Then, you should be good to go!

 

[Steve-Indy]

Re: New \'04 has loose crank bolt- tow or drive????

moldowan asked:

"Ok,
So what are the 2 bolt size'z that It might have? And how on earth do I tell if the balancer has come loose or other damage has happened already?
I think I will tighten enough to get to dealer then let them worry about it. "

From my post on the subject on Oct. 19, 2005...which is part of a long thread with much info from Dan on the problem:

" JUST completed the "bolt inspection" of a beautiful 2006 Coupe (blue/white)...#30 of 200...at Indy's Palmer Dodge North...Viper Tech Phil Honeycutt did the formal inspection and AFFIRMS that for 2006 the crank damper bolt has the 1.25 inch( 1 1/4" ) hex head ("big bolt"), with a small blue dot on center of this bolt which, otherwise looks like the same bolt as found on the 2003 Vipers....THANKS, Phil & Palmer !!!

While Kurt and I were at it, we visited the nice folks at Indy's Champion Dodge...and looked at the bolts on a red 2005 SRT-10 and on a 2005 Copperhead SRT-10....in BOTH cases, the crank damper bolts were the same as on the 2006 Viper...with the same blue dot....THANKS, Champion !!!

So, the REAL QUESTION is...when did the running change occur ???(most likely in 05 by MY guess).

Bottom line:
Owners of 2004's and early 2005's SHOULD have this checked out (in MY opinion) at one's dealership to be safe and sure."

Here's that thread:

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=UBB21&Number=602496&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&vc=1

by the way...VERY NICE WRITEUP on the fix, Dan...THANKS !!!