New Exhaust

KaiPL

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Well, after thinking about it for a long time, I finally took the plunge and replaced my stock exhaust. I read everything I could, and decided on the following:

Billy Boat 5 into 1 stepped headers

3 inch Random Tech cats

Corsa Track exhaust.

I ordered all the stuff from Parts Rack, and had it shipped directly to my installer.

After a long talk with Jon B at Parts rack, I decided for the standard stainless Random Tech cats, rather than the super high flow non-ceramic cats. I didn't want the car to be too loud, and he said that these would help to quiet things down a bit.

I had the installer use clamps where possible rather than welding, as I have heard mixed reactions regarding using the Corsa Track exhaust with headers, and I wanted to be able to tweak things if necessary without having to deal with welded components.

Last night, I picked up the car. The first thing I noticed was how much stuff was eliminated by getting rid of the crossover. There's a TON of pipe and other stuff crammed under the car in the stock system. Looking at the huge pile of pipes and things they removed from my car, I gotta believe I saved at least 30 pounds by getting rid of the crossover.

We started the car up, and I have to say that my first reaction was I really loved the sound. Deep, loud, and agressive. Driving home, I played with the throttle, listening to the response through the new pipes.

From 2000 rpm and below, the in-car sound is actually quieter than it was with the stock exhaust, with no drone. Cruising on the highway in 5th, it is whisper quiet, just a faint low rumble. From 2000 to 3500 rpm, the sound ramps up from quiet to faily loud, but still not too loud. From 3500 rpm upward, however, it's pretty nuts. It's shake the ground, break glass, scare the forest animals loud, a deep deafening howl that is almost painful with the convertible top down and the windows rolled down.

Popping and crackling on decelleration and downshifting is much louder and more noticable, particularly the occasional very loud pop coming from the side pipe tips right below your ear.

The floor heat is gone, and the only heat coming into the foot well is the much reduced heat from the engine compartment. After driving for an hour, I didn't have the need to turn on the air conditioning. Usually, my feet are roasting after about 1/2 an hour, even with the top down.

Overall, I think I like it, although I'm going to wait about a week to make sure before I take it back to the shop to get the clamps replaced with proper welds. I'm also going to get the car on a dyno and see if I picked up any power in addition to the new sound. I will try to post an audio file to give folks an idea of the sound.

Kai
 

ViperRay

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"I'm also going to get the car on a dyno and see if I picked up any power in addition to the new sound."

How did it dyno stock?
I'll be interested in your results.

Ray
 
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KaiPL

KaiPL

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How did it dyno stock?
I'll be interested in your results.

Ray


Stock numbers were 438 Hp and 479 lb-feet of torque to the rear wheels.

I'm at a pretty high altitude, (over 5200 feet) so I'm not sure I will see the gains from an exhaust that I might see at lower altitudes. Everyone tells me that naturally aspirated mods don't give you the same results at altitude as they do at sea level. That said, if I don't pick up at least 25-30 horsepower, I will be disappointed.
 

NOMERCY

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Kai, we should get together for a beer. I would really like to hear your car.
 

Kelly06

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Can we get away with such a setup in CA? I hope you enjoy the system, sounds like a winner. How about providing us with an audio?
 

Ooomph

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Kai,

Couple questions.

1. Where did you get your exhaust work done?

I'm in New Mexico, also at high altitude (5500ft) and have been looking for an installer within a day's drive. Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to driving to Dallas, Denver or Phoenix. -- maybe LA but that's pushing it.

2. Having gone with cats and hearing the difference over stock, would you have possibly decided, if you had to do it all over again, to go catless? (if you didn't have to consider emissions testing...)

Reason I ask is that I don't (New Mexico) have any emissions testing and have been thinking of going catless. I'm not really concerned with the noise factor but I am concerned with the car being able to maintain proper air/fuel ratios, especially due to my altitude.

Thanks,

Thom
 
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KaiPL

KaiPL

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Kai,

Couple questions.

1. Where did you get your exhaust work done?

I'm in New Mexico, also at high altitude (5500ft) and have been looking for an installer within a day's drive. Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to driving to Dallas, Denver or Phoenix. -- maybe LA but that's pushing it.

2. Having gone with cats and hearing the difference over stock, would you have possibly decided, if you had to do it all over again, to go catless? (if you didn't have to consider emissions testing...)

Reason I ask is that I don't (New Mexico) have any emissions testing and have been thinking of going catless. I'm not really concerned with the noise factor but I am concerned with the car being able to maintain proper air/fuel ratios, especially due to my altitude.

Thanks,

Thom


I got the work done at redline motor sports in Fort Collins. They guy who runs the shop is very very good. He's working on an amazing twin turbo SRT-10, owns a Viper himself, and his shop is very well known for his high-end work. It's literally stuffed with top shelf cars. Every time I go by his shop I see Porsche 911s, Vettes, Vipers, an occasional brand new Lexus, and even a Ferrari. Not your typical tuner shop. He's the only person I let work on my car.

http://www.4redlinemotorsports.com/

If I knew that I didn't have to worry about emissions, I still don't think I would have gone catless. The sound as it is is plenty scary. It's just bordering on obnoxious, and removing the cats might just push it over that line.
 

Ooomph

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Thanks for the info Kai! :2tu: I think I'll go with the cats afterall. I'm going to call your guy in Fort Collins and see what his schedule is like. Thanks again.
 

Vipera Russelli

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Nice post Kai. Thanks for all the information.

I have a similar set up, but went with the steel RT cats and, although I don't mind in the least, I assure you that "quite" and "whisper" are not adjectives associated with my Viper. Sounds like you made the right call for what you wanted.
 

Skip White

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The Metal substrate Random Tech is the way to go, not the ceramic unit. I don't think the ceramic ones will last. I'm not an expert in this, but if memory serves me, I spoke to the people at Random Tech a few years ago and they strongly recommended the better cats. The Viper produces a trememdous amount of heat and exhaust pressure, to be forcing into the very small ceramic cats. I don't think they will last long. I had an 89 Lotus, and both of the cats right from the factory had metal subtrate/honycomb in them.

Skip White

I don't think sound is an issue between the two, not sure, but if flow rate is better on the Metal sub. I would for sure use them,

A/F ratio is not an issue when going catless, if you use the 02 simulators.
 

NOMERCY

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Kai, we should get together for a beer. I would really like to hear your car.

I'm in Boulder. Just let me know when you will be out my way.

Kai

I am going to put another cruise before the weather gets bad. Vipers, Porsches, Vettes, Supras, and maybe a few Ferraris. I'll let you know when it is. :cool:
 
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KaiPL

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I guess no audio :(

Actually, I'm hoping to get some sound recorded today. Heading for the drag strip, so it should be a good venue for recording some exhaust notes.

My wife is not a fan of the new sound at all. She doesn't want to ride in the car anymore now that I have the new exhaust. When we went out to dinner, she wanted to take the Subaru wagon rather than the Viper. This is not good.

Overall, I like the sound, but have to admit that it is very loud above 3000 rpm. I have noticed that I am driving differently, shifting sooner, and keeping it below 2500 more. I'm getting better gas mileage, and no doubt extending my tire and engine life, but when the car was quieter I would rev it more. I have to admit that if I continue to drive the car hard like I did previously, I eventually would go deaf in my left ear.

So . . . I'm going to tone it down just a bit. Got an appointment with the shop for next week. Hopefully adding a Dynatech silencing cone will do the trick. If not, I will likely replace one of the Corsa mufflers with a quieter unit. If I could keep the sound quality just as it is, but knock the decibles down a bit, it would be perfect.
 

Viper X

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Hi Kai,

The dynomax mufflers I installed (one on each side) knocked the sound down a bit, but probably still not enough. Let me know your final outcome. On the subject of hp / tq gains, I got about 50 / 50 out of this combo at sea level. LOL.

Dan
 
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KaiPL

KaiPL

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I have not taken the car to the dyno with the new exhaust, but my 1/4 mile performance seems to have gone up.

Tonight, with the new exhaust, I ran a personal best 13.281 e.t. in the 1/4 My previous best was 13.456. Also previously, I was clocking very consistently at 109mph. Tonight, almost all of my runs were at 111mph.

It was 10 degrees cooler tonight (77 degrees) than last time (87 degrees,) but all the other factors I can think of were the same.

This points to some power gain, I think, unless the 10 degree temperature difference can account for a consistent 2mph difference in trap time.

(If the times look low to you sea level folks, remember that this strip is at 5800 feet.)

I got some exhaust note recordings tonight too, so I will post them as well.

Kai
 

Vipera Russelli

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Sounds great, Kai!

I just had a few seconds of my exhaust note recorded by a friend the other day. Can someone post it if I send it to them???
 

JonB

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... decided on the following:

Billy Boat 5 into 1 stepped headers; 3 inch Random Tech cats; Corsa Track exhaust. I ordered all the stuff from Parts Rack, and had it shipped directly to my installer.

After a long talk with Jon B at Parts rack, I decided for the standard stainless Random Tech cats, rather than the super high flow non-ceramic cats. I didn't want the car to be too loud, and he said that these would help to quiet things down a bit. Kai

Kai, many thanks for the posts, the feedback (and your business.) I assure you that the flow rate of the ceramics is more than adequate to handle the HP and flow of your SRT-10; The cats are warranteed. I have had only 3 single ceramic cats fail out of many, many hundreds sold. NEVER 'blown out' but failed to pass testing after 1-2 years. Tuning was suspect, but RT replaced em free. Your stated goal of a more civilized sound was achieved with Stainles/Ceramic cats and a Corsa. Metal Substrate would be significanly louder. I would NOT change the Corsa muffler, which achieves that civilized cruise you -and others- like. Try the cone silencer first! And again, THANKS !
 
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KaiPL

KaiPL

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Here is, (I believe) the final chapter on my new exhaust.

I spoke with the guys from Corsa about my too loud system, and they said that it simply wasn't designed for use with headers, and that if the stock exhaust manifolds were replaced that it would greatly decrease the mufflers effectiveness. They didn't have any suggestions.

At the recommendation of the guy at Redline Motorsports who did the exhaust work, I got a pair of 3 inch Dynatech Vortex muffler cones, and had them installed between the merge collector and the cats.

For those who are unfamiliar with these muffler cones, here is a link:

http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/dynatechstore/vortex.cfm

Well, the results were quite good. The sound is a little bit more mellow. Pretty much, I have lost about 500 rpm worth of sound volume; that is, 3000 rpm now sounds like 2500 rpm did before I installed the cones. The sound at idle seems a little bit more smooth and even, and the crackling and popping on downshifts sounds a bit farther away, and less like a firecracker going off next to you. Volume at cruise is reduced, and I think that cruising at 1500 rpm and less is more quiet than my original stock exhaust.
I'm not sure if the ultimate volume at WOT has become less, but the sound definitely doesn't come on as quickly. Without the cones, 3500 rpm was pretty uncomfortable, and now I can go up to 4000 rpm without it being really uncomfortably loud.

I'm quite happy with this solution. It's pretty easy to drive the car around town without going above 3500 rpm, and for those occasions when I really want to "gun it" I like the loud howl. It's a nice Jeckle/Hyde combination with Mr. Hyde coming out at around 3500 rpm.

I had some dyno work done as well. Here are the numbers:

Car with stock exhaust: 441.9 hp and 478 lb-ft torque
Car with BB headers random-tech cats, Corsa track exhaust: 451 hp and 497 lb-ft torque
Same as above, with addition of Dynatech muffler cones: 454.3 hp and 500.6 lb-ft torque.

The gain was about 12 horsepower and 22 lb feet of torque. Looking at the graphs overlayed, the horsepower and torque gains start at about 3100 rpm and go through the entire range.

I didn't pick up as much power as I had hoped for.
I have heard, however, that because I am at high altitude (5600 feet) that I can expect less gains from exhaust modifications than if I were at sea level. I will probably go back and dyno the car again in a month or so and see if the numbers improve any.

Kai
 
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