Problem with my GTS (feels like she missing spark/fuel)

[Dom426h]

Trying to give as much info as possible with this Timeline. Please read through and let me know if there is any other info you would like to know about my 1997 GTS with 50Kmiles.

Monday:
4:00 - Near empty tank, Fill up with 11 Gal of 93o Fuel from Shell

4:20 - Pull out of a shoppingcenter and as i accelerate while turning i hit a wicked bump. In 3rd I begin to feel a slight loss in power. As I slow down for a redlight the idle starts to stumble so I blip the throttle a few times until the light turns green. As I accelerate there is a Definite powerless and it feels like I’m missing spark or fuel. (it felt like she was running out of gas to me)

4:25 - Pull over, shut down, pop hood and check every connection including the plugwires I installed 2 months ago. Start her up and she purrs like a viper should and rides home flawlessly.

5:00 - Start her up in my driveway with the hood popped to check her out again. Running Fine. Shut down

7:00 - Take her for a 15min joy-ride Running Fine

Wednesday:
Two separate half hour rides, Running Fine

Thursday:
Go to leave for work, starts up fine. As I drive down the street I see my neighbor is out(who is a very knowledgeable mechanic) stop and tell him the story. Pull away to go to work and 2 miles down the road she starts acting up with the same symptoms as on Monday (felt like she was running out of gas). I immediately call my neighbor and tell him wait outside, im coming back. Pull up to his house leave the viper running pop the hood and look everything over. He hops in and we go for a 15min spin and the Viper is running Fine again…

AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!

My Bro was supposed to lead the caravan with the Viper in my wedding this Sunday. But now she might have to sit in the garage until I get back from the honeymoon…

Additional info: My GTS gets started up a few times a week and is also left on a batterytender. No check engine light has come up.

I have 2 Theory’s so far: but before I say anything to change your thought-path I’d like to hear you opinions.

 

[Martin]

Did you check your battery connections to see if that bump knocked something loose? How about the ground strap? This sounds a lot like a loose ground somewhere to me. The other possibility is that when your tank got real low, your pump sucked up some crud. Just guesses, but those are the places I'd be looking first...

 

[RTTTTed]

Fuel filter.

To check fuel pressure you could buy a cheapo oil pressure guage for about $30. Adapt to hook plastic line to Schraider valve on intake. I used a bent piece of metal and clipped the guage under the windshield wiper for testing purposes.

Pull the spark plugs when it's running bad and check color and see if any are wet. Injectors may be the culpret as well.

Good luck
Ted

Time for plugs? Plug wires?

 

[Brentt]

Yep, I'm guessing a fuel filter. You can bet the station you bought the gas from doesn't sell as much 93 as reg unlead, and with gas at near $5 gallon last year, there could be moisture or crud in their tanks.

 

[RTTTTed]

That being said I think there was a thread here a few days ago. It read like a bad tank of gas caused bad running engine

Ted

 

[dave6666]

+1 on fuel filter. If it has not been done before then at 12 years and 50K miles it is time.

 

[bluesrt]

bad gas was a 70 and 80 thing

 

[AviP]

Why don't you run this tank dry and test with fresh gas from a different gas station? If the problem persists, it's not the gas. Then check the filter. Then the fuel pressure test that RTTTTed suggested. Good luck!

 

[plumcrazy]

i agree on bad gas....not very likely

 

[-FROG-]

I always hear about bad gas... but have NEVER experienced any kind of bad gas and I buy the cheapest stuff I can possibly find ALWAYS. But that's just me I guess...

One of my first thoughts was to go over the engine area, especially around the plugs, and check connectors. Check stuff like the "Idle Air Control" sensor connector and the MAP sensor connector. It almost sounds to me that there may be a connector a bit loose causing an intermittent contact issue. Especially if you recently did your plug wires and then hitting a hard bump in the road juggled loose what you possible already jiggled loose with your arm while installing new plug wires. Possibly a ground wire as well, but definitely sounds like an electrical issue to me.

 

[Bolt]

I say battery. The bump jared the plates and knocked the debre to the bottom of the battery so there is one low voltage cell. This would produce your interupting problem as the battery is jared around. Easy check, put it on a battery charger and see if the meter pegs. If it stays peged then replace the battery with a GOOD one.

 

[bluesrt]

fuelpumps can and do act like this symtom- if a filter doesnt do it,test the pressure while driving under a load

 

[Bolt]

While you have the battery out check the plug wire on the battery temp sensor. The wire wiggles up and down till the jacket breaks then corrosion takes over. This could do the same thing. Charge then not charge...

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[99 R/T 10]

I always hear about bad gas... but have NEVER experienced any kind of bad gas and I buy the cheapest stuff I can possibly find ALWAYS. But that's just me I guess...

I have and it became VERY apparent after 2-3 miles. It was so bad the Corp. (conoco) paid me $600 for lost time. I had to drain the tank completely and refill it with Chevron 93. It was soo bad, I had it towed!

 

[dave6666]

Bad gas?

They been making burritos well before the 70's and 80's

 

[Tom Sessions]

Check the fuel pump relay in the PDC in the trunk on the drivers side of the trunk.I have had this happen to a car at the track. Car would run fine them start cutting up was checked several times at the track and nothing.The car finally cut off on the highway.I removed the cover and the relay fell out.It would make contact then not so the pump cut on and off.Good luck.

Congrates on getting Married.Hope the viper can make the wedding

 

[Dom426h]

Well, i took this to be a “sign” happening 1 week before my wedding...

There is no need for the Viper to be in my wedding. All of the attention should be on my Bride and I’d rather people be appreciating her over looking at my "Car" (although it is more than a car to me...) Also i had friends flying in a week before the wedding and chose to spend all my time with them over tinkering with my "car"

Bottom line, She(viper) can wait. After my honeymoon i will be ordering a new battery AND fuelfilter. Not Sure if i'll be able to pinpoint which was the culprit since I’ll be doing both at the same time, but i don’t really care since these are two things that have been wanting to replace for a little while now. I’ll also check all of the ground connections, fuelpump relay, and battery temp sensor as suggested.

Thanks for the advice Everyone and i'll let you know the outcome once i get her back on the road in a couple weeks

 

[RTTTTed]

What??? I even let my Viper steal the limelight from me, never mind the wife. Get married without being able to drive away in my Viper??? No way, postpone the wedding until the Car's A-OK.

When I first read your "took it as a sign..." meaning that you weren't gonna get married at all because your car didn't like her. LMAO. Glad I was wrong.

Congratulations and Good Luck!

Ted

 

[Dom426h]

****UPDATE:**** Back From Jamaica and On The Road

So, I count 4 possible issues that could cause this so far:
Fuel Filter, Bad Gas, Battery, Ground Wire somewhere or battery temp sensor.

My original thought was FuelFilter or Battery, but looks like that was wrong.

Replaced Fuel Filter (damn that was a son-of-a-bi*** doing in my garage with no lift…)
Removed battery and found that it is only 4 years old. Took it to Sears & NTB and they both tested it and said it is good. (Also temp sensor and ground strap look good)

I was down to a ¼ tank of fuel from the last fillup at shell when I began having the problem. Deciding whether to make the drive in the viper from DE to AC for my friends bachelor party I gave it the GO (assuming that the new fuel filter would make everything better.) Drove Fine to the Hess Gas station where I put in a container of CheveronTECHRON in (to clean up the fuel injectors & remaining gas in-case of contamination.) Topped her off with 13 Gal of 93oct. Drove 10 min to pick up my friend - FINE.

Hit the road for a 2hr drive to AtlanticCity. First 1.3hrs she’s running FINE. Im having a blast going back and forth with a C6vette. Patting myself on the back thinking “must have been the filter”. WRONG. Just as the vette decides to start driving faster I feel the GTS start to hesitate and she ran rough (on and off) for the next 5-10 min until I stopped at a rest-stop. Grabbed a bite to eat then hit the road again. The rest of the trip she ran pretty good except for a few moments where she would hesitate. Once I got into AC she ran Fine. Heading back home the next day she ran mostly Fine but there was a few times that I felt her hesitate (with the original symptom) Now down to a ¼ tank of fuel I stop in Jersey to add a few gallons of discount 92oct (all they had in the area)to make it home (I wanted to clear most of the fuel so my next fillup would be ~90% 93oct Top-Tier Fuel.

Bottom Line: Now im thinking it just might just be “bad gas” aka Water in the Fuel. Possibly from that Shell Station where I began having the problem, or from me running the tank very low before that fillup, or Both. Only time will tell…

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

If you have your old filter, pour it into a pan and see if you can see the separation of water and fuel. They don't mix.

 

[RTTTTed]

Isoprophenoly (Gas Line antifreeze) or alcohol would solve a water problem.

Not sure of your technical abilities, but if bad gas was on my list I would 'hotwire the fuel pump and drain the fuel by disconnecting the fuel line at the filter.

Starting to sound like a bad/loose connection. I hope not, but it took me a year to find 3 loose computer wires.

Ted

 

[white out]

Check your maf & o2 sensors.

Nick

 

[RTTTTed]

Chrysler doesn't use a MAF/Mass Air Flow. You probably meant MAP/Manifold Absolute Pressure?

 

[Dom426h]

If you have your old filter, pour it into a pan and see if you can see the separation of water and fuel. They don't mix.

Yes, i wanted to do that, but how the filter is Vertically oriented, you pretymuch loose all of the fluid when you pull the hose. Most of my fuel was absorbed into a big towel i stuffed up there since i didnt want it in my Eyes

Isoprophenoly (Gas Line antifreeze) or alcohol would solve a water problem.

Not sure of your technical abilities, but if bad gas was on my list I would 'hotwire the fuel pump and drain the fuel by disconnecting the fuel line at the filter.

Starting to sound like a bad/loose connection. I hope not, but it took me a year to find 3 loose computer wires.

Ted

Yes, fuel around me already has 15%ethenol in it which will absorb some water untill phase seperation occures and it drops to the bottom of the tank.

Also, im pretty sure that most fuel pump pickups are not at the very bottom of the tank. Guess Why?
However, i know that some cars Do pickup fuel from the ded bottom of the tank...
(Does anyone know for sure how the Gen2's work?)

If you do your fuel pump drain method it will likely leave all the water and gunk in the bottom.

 

[Dom426h]

Had her out yesterday for a short ride running Fine.
Planning on putting some significant miles on her this weekend.... We'll see

 

[uvbnbit]

Had her out yesterday for a short ride running Fine.
Planning on putting some significant miles on her this weekend.... We'll see

Could it have anything to do with that lolly pop stick thingy?
Seriously. That looks like a bbq skewer. Maybe punctured something?

 

[RTTTTed]

If you pump the tank dry and find water/oil/gunk in your bucket ... then you could pull the pump module and then **** out the tank even without cutting the car to get the fuel tank our of the car.

Ted

Ted

 

[dave6666]

Could it have anything to do with that lolly pop stick thingy?
Seriously. That looks like a bbq skewer. Maybe punctured something?

I am a BBQ expert. Trust me, never use plastic/wood/paper/fiber products to secure your dinner over a heat source.

However, bottles and cans work great!

 

[Dom426h]

then you could pull the pump module and then **** out the tank even without cutting the car to get the fuel tank our of the car.

Right, thats what i was getting at. Remove the Pump and syphon to get ALL the fuel out. At that point you can also pour something(fuelsystemcleaner/waterremover) in the empty tank to clean up the remaining residue/water, then pump it out. Your initial recommendation would have left me with all of the water in the bottom of the tank

So to get to the top of the tank Does it need to be removed/Dropped? Or is it as simple as removing the interior pieces&carpet to access the fuelpump coverplate?

Here is a Pic of the Gen2 Tank and Pump for people to visualize:

(note: tank & Pump are shown at diff scales)

 

[tlcobra]

I have a 98 gts that has the same problem.
I did a fuel pressure test and it bounces from 40 to 80 when the motor runs like crap.i ordered a pump off a parts website but its the wrong one. going to Dodge tomorrow to order the right one. VCA member get a discount so its only 730.00