RPS CLUTCH/FLYWHEEL INSTALL PROBLEM

[redsrt03]

The service department just called and said that after installing an RPS Pro Max Clutch and Cyn-R-G Flywheel, that the transmission causes the throwout
bearing to press in on the fingers of the pressure plate, partially disengaging
the clutch.

Has anyone seen this problem before or have an ideas what is happening?

Thanks.

 

[Skip White]

No I haven't noticed any thing like this on mine, but I would call RPS. I'm curious to hear more about this.

Skip

 

[SilverSnake]

Sounds like the throw out bearing is backwards.

Robert

 

[redsrt03]

I sent an E-mail to RPS tech, but haven't received a response yet. I talked to the Viper tech and he said
it was impossible for the throw out bearing to be
installed backwards. (I probably screwed up when I
mentioned that if the throw out bearing had been installed
incorrectly at the factory that would explain the premature clutch failure on the stock clutch!)

Anyways, he also said he screwed-up a
pressure plate bolt trying to disassemble the clutch
to see if anything is wrong and that he ordered new
bolts. I don't know if I'm being milked for parts or
what.

I'll let you know what RPS says and thanks
for the input.

 

[Bill M]

We have installed the RPS Clutch and flywheel in an 04 srt-10 with no issues. However, it seems that the slave cylinder is a weak link in the clutch system. The original one was burned up along with the stock clutch and flywheel, the replacement we got had a hairline crack in it that leaked fluid and the third one worked fine.

RedSRT03 Let me know if you if you are still having problems as I am an RPS distributor.

Bill

 

[redsrt]

Bill M,

I took the original flywheel, clutch, and disk back to the dealer yesterday afternoon. The Tech and I did a side-by-side comparison of the RPS setup and the stock components. Everything seemed to match exactly, except the RPS clutch disk was thicker (to be expected). The Tech said it looked like everything should work, so he is going to try again Monday. BTW when I first brought the RPS clutch components in to the service area, all of the techs (and even the sales advisors) gathered around and seemed really impressed by the design and quality. RPS really seems to have gotten it right.

Also looking at the underside of the Viper, as an engineer, I was impressed with the design and quality of the Viper components.

Too bad DCX business decisions apparently don't match up to the potential of the car.

 

[redsrt03]

Interestingly enough, after the Viper Tech re-installed the RPS clutch and flywheel, the Service Director and the tech took the Viper out on a test drive. They heard rattling and klunks coming from the differential and decide to replace the differential (under warranty this time). I was wondering if the pre-mature clutch wear (also the fingers on the pressure plate were worn quite a bit for 4200 miles) could be related to the diffential problem? I was orignally thinking that if the engine was mounted too far back, that could cause the clutch to self-disengage to some degree. Could that also cause the differential to go?

Anyway, it just seems to get more and more interesting. I'm starting to believe the Northglenn Service Department are the good guys, cause even if the clutch failure was caused by excessive pressure on the pressure plate fingers when the clutch was fully engaged due to clutch/tranny/driveline issues, no one would think to check the fit when pulling the tranny. Just a theory.

 

[Skip White]

I shouldn't matter if the engine is back to far, as the trans. is mounted to the engine, but I can assure you the engine is not mounted in a wrong postition. As far as the rear end having a problem, the clutch problem should have no bearing on this at all.

Do let the guys at the garage know the RPS clutch will chatter a considerable amount until broke in. This chatter will cause the back bumper pannel under the card to rattle a good bit. Or if you did have a diff. problem, the clutch chatter would exaggerate any problem in the diff.

Keep us posted as to the outcome.

Skip White

 

[KaiPL]

They heard rattling and klunks coming from the differential and decide to replace the differential (under warranty this time).

I'm starting to believe the Northglenn Service Department are the good guys,

I get all kinds of rattling and kluking noises from the differential. I just assumed this was normal.

Is that Northglenn in Denver?

Kai

 

[redsrt]

Kai,

Yep, the one and the same.

 

[redsrt]

Skip,

I will inform them of the chatter and let you guys know how everything turns out.

 

[SilverSnake]

redsrt,

When i went to pick my car up from the dealer the service mgr meet me at the drive and said " I think we broke the rear end on the test drive " I what the f@#$ do you mean!!! It was the chatter from the new clutch. Buy the way my clutch finaly broke in this week .

Robert

 

[redsrt03]

Service guy called this morning. They install the RPS clutch and flywheel and put in the new differential. Seems the car still has no power. Apparently the clutch is slipping. Anyone got any ideas? My guess is the service guy will want to put in new stock parts. I'm thinking of just having the stock flywheel re-surfaced, putting in a new stock clutch disk, and having them re-install the original pressure plate. With only 4200 miles on the car does this seem to make sense?

As always thanks for the advice.

PS The car has been at the service department since 29 OCT 04, under Colorado's lemon law 30 days within the first 12 months qualifies it for a lemon. Does anyon know if time spend waiting for parts count as part of the 30 days?

I am thinking of contacting the Fair Trade Commission and getting their take on Dodge's refusal to warrant the clutch, especially in light of the latest problems.

 

[Bill M]

Did they replace the slave cylinder?

 

[Skip White]

Red, sorry to hear of this. I can't think of what the problem would be. Are you saying the clutch is slipping now?

Skip White

 

[redsrt03]

Hey Bill,

Actually they didn't and I didn't think to tell them. The
service director said they pulled the plugs and one side was all white and the other side black. He is going to check into the valve issue. He said he didn't actually go on the test drive, so he wasn't sure if the clutch was slipping again or if the engine was just running badly due to incorrect fuel mixtures. I did think to mention to have them check the crankshaft bolt tightness and that once or twice the engine check light came on for a day or so and then went back off.

How can a car with so much going for it, be such a lemon! Based on the VIN number I believe this was one of the last '03s built. Maybe the CAAP people were getting ready for another round of shutdowns and weren't too happy about it.

Again, thanks for any and all input.

 

[Bill M]

What else is done to the car for them to say bad fuel mixtures? Also, did they scan the computer to see what the check engine light was?

 

[SilverSnake]

Doesn't sound good red. How was rps on the customer service ?

Robert

 

[redsrt03]

Skip,

Not sure if the clutch is slipping again. The voice mail from the Service director indicated it was, but when I talked to him on the phone he said he wasn't sure. Just that
the tech said the car didn't have any power. He said he
contacted Dodge to see if my car could be experiencing the
valve issues.

Bill,

I am going to call them later on today and ask about the
OBDII codes and mention the slave cylinder issues.

SilverSnake,

I never did get a response to the E-mail I sent to RPS tech support. So, I would have to rate them as not very good.


Well, I will try and keep you guys informed and again
thanks for the adivce/comments.

 

[rbarta]

The service director said they pulled the plugs and one side was all white and the other side black.

Could it be that the exhaust oxygen sensors got reversed right/left side?

 

[Bill M]

This is an 03 car correct? Were all the recalls done? I believe some of the 03 cars had an PCM reflash TSB.

I work closely with RPS. If you want, PM me a phone number and I can either have RPS contact you or I can set up a conf call.

 

[Skip White]

Red, the slave cylinder should not make the clutch slip, as this would only affect disengagement, or engagement point. When they are completly out, the clutch is usually completly engaged. I could be wrong. Funny they are not clear cut on if it's slipping or not. It's usually so obvious when a clutch is slipping and when not sure a glance at the tach, would confirm this.

That rich side your talking about, I've heard of this many times on GTS's. The comp. is screwed up, or 02 sensor could be the culprit.

As far as the valve issue being the problem with lack of power, it was only about 15-20 hp problem from not having the proper cut on the valves. You would never really notice that. Keep us informed of the outcome. This is how we all learn these things.

Skip White

 

[redsrt03]

Talked to the service guy yesterday afternoon. He said that after they installed the RPS clutch/flywheel, they did the test drive and thought that the diff was bad due to noise and poor power.

After they replaced the diff, that test drive still showed poor power. So they pulled the clutch and looked at the components and everything looked good. They then started looking at the engine and noticed the blackened plugs on one side and white plugs on the other. They changed the oxegen sensors and took another test ride. The Engine Check light came on and the scan showed too lean a fuel mixture. They also looked into the valve issue (not sure if they actually pulled them and or what) and they don't think that is the problem. They have been in constant communications with the STAR (I believe that's what he called them) factory technicians for dodge. I get the feeling they (dodge) are really getting concerned about the lemon law thing.

BTW, I'm beginning to think the original diagnosis of bad clutch may have more to do with the power problem, than with a worn clutch disk. Although, there was some clutch disk wear and hot spots on the flywheel, I bet you could put the original parts back in and it would run just as badly as it is doing now.

Bill,

Thanks for the offer of setting up a talk with RPS. I sent the e-mail to [email protected] on 11/19/04 and things have progressed enough now, that I don't think the RPS install problem was that real, so I will decline on your offer. But if any of their distributors want to mention this to them, I certainly don't mind, as I feel customer relations and feedback are very important if someone wants to keep their customer base. Again thanks.

I'll continue to update everyone on this issue.

A guy at work asked me if dodge was forced to refund my purchase price under the lemon law, if I would buy another Viper or new Vette/Porche etc. I told him I would still like another Viper, but based on how dodge has treated me so far, if Toyota really does come out with a 500hp sports car, I would probably go with that.

 

[redsrt03]

Well, the Service department called and said my Viper was ready for pickup. It appears the lost power was due too a clogged catalytic converter. Who'd of guessed that. I'll pick it up this afternoon and let everyone know how it turned out.

Again thanks for the advice and comments.

 

[rbarta]

Wow, all that and it's an emmissions problem. I would have thought that the computer would be throwing codes all over the place for this. I guess this is yet another reason why people yank all that stuff out of their cars.

I hope everything is from now on

 

[redsrt03]

rbarta,

I think the clogged cat was a sympton rather than the root cause.

Took my Viper home last night and did a 15 minute ride. The clutch chatter is kind of bad when making a turn (loud
noises coming from back of car). Other than that it is not too bad.

I'm not sure I like the lightweigth flywheel though. It makes the car seem quicker and more nimble, but it doesn't seem to have the low-speed punch the old car had. It does seem that it is easier to gain RPMs.

The guys as Northglenn Dodge worked hard to get the car running again. Besides the clutch install (which I paid for), they put a new diff, O2 sensors, plugs, and a cat and resonator (the system doesn't seem as loud as the original).

They also put over a 100 miles on my car (even though I told them the new clutch would chatter) in an effort to minimize some of the chatter.

I would give them an A- (still think the clutch was an assembly/preparation problem) overall.

They will get a second chance this afternoon when I take the car back! The Engine Check light came on as I was driving to work this morning.

Still the few minutes I have driven it since I got it back has brought back the fun of this awesome car.

 

[redsrt03]

Took the Viper back in yesterday afternoon to find the cause of the Engine Check light. It turned out that the asst/mnger of the service department took the car out for one last test drive and then added some gas before I picked it up.

I drove it home without any problems. The Engine Check light came on the next day as I was driving to work. Driving back from work, I stopped and put some gas in and noticed the gas cap wasn't on very good. I gassed it up and put the cap on tightly.

The Engine Check light stayed on the entire trip to the service department. They scanned the OBDII and found a leak in the Evap Emission circuit. Since the cap was on tightly, they went ahead and ran a pressure check and everything appeared normal. They then cleared the code. The Viper Tech (Steve)talked with me and we figured out what happened. When the Asst/mngr put the cap on incorrectly, the OBDII waits for 18 miles before it turns on the Engine Check Light (at least for this code). Since I didn't put 18 miles on the car until I drove to work the next day, that's why the light wasn't on when I drove home from the service depart (about 10 miles). The next day when I refilled the gas tank and put the cap on correctly, I was less than 10 miles from the Service department and the light did not go off (cause again it will only clear the condition after 18 miles has elapsed.)

Anyways, that's the theory. The guys at Northglenn Dodge Service department were really great and I would not hesitate to take the Viper back for any other (God forbid) problems that may occur in the future.

So remember to put your gas cap (or all of your caps) on correctly and give it at least 18 miles for the Engine Check Light to clear.