sad news...viper plant shuttered until end June.

FLL-B/W-GTS

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Posts
575
Reaction score
0
My old 997 TS ran 10.80s all day long..My new 991/911 TS is faster than the 997 TS.It will 10.60s..(Check Drag times on the 14 TS)The most important thing for me is that the new model is way nicer in every way.. (Both Bone Stock).

These magazine drivers can,t dive for shixxx and do not use a proper /prepped track...The same applies when they try to drive a Viper to the limits..The best indication on how fast cars really are in the real world is the Drag Times Site....
 

2003 Viper

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Posts
219
Reaction score
0
every new viper model for 22 model years up until the current one, an open top version was the first to be debuted with the racing program being the reason to do the coupe first. In hind sight i am not sure this was a good idea. in addition to that all three i have owned were open top cars and a coupe will never be a consideration for me, plaything, fun, good weather toy..............TOP DOWN

I agree. I just bought a loaded 2013 427 convertible last month and love it. SRT lost my money because I will never buy a Viper coupe. Lets hope they make a convertible Viper soon and I predict sales will rise. JMO
 

ViperSmith

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Posts
2,918
Reaction score
0
Location
Tysons Corner, VA
My old 997 TS ran 10.80s all day long..My new 991/911 TS is faster than the 997 TS.It will 10.60s..(Check Drag times on the 14 TS)The most important thing for me is that the new model is way nicer in every way.. (Both Bone Stock).

These magazine drivers can,t dive for shixxx and do not use a proper /prepped track...The same applies when they try to drive a Viper to the limits..The best indication on how fast cars really are in the real world is the Drag Times Site....

Oh, mags aren't giving the car its fair shake and proper due? Wow, shocking... Almost as if we've heard that before.
 

SylvanSRT

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Posts
3,677
Reaction score
0
Location
Sylvan Lake, MI, USA
not that the flavor of of the viper has been lost it has just strayed from the original formula. With urging from media and even the viper nation to add conviences and updrade interiors cup holder.......oh ya and add a top (from none......to toupe......real drop top) and air conditioning. It is stll raw and basic compared to everything else out there. I will also agree that the car is priced fairly compared to what else is out there, BUT with economic conditons as they have become there are FAR FAR less people that can afford to buy it !!

I hope a drop top makes it soon so we dont lose the viper to history


oh ya one last thing. We also have an issue in that at one point (when i got my '03) the vper was the fastest production drop top in the world!! The viper under current ownership will never be allowed to become the fastest best anything (with the race track being the excetpion, maybe). Fiat will not let a car a half to a third the price beat their favorite son Ferrari. Not saying thats wrong, but i feel a few other name plates may still have been around if trhey were allowed to evolve naturally ie: thundderbirtd(cant beat the mustang), xlr (cant beat the corvette), but when being relagated to second place you better be damn good or at least a damn good value!! (and the viper is damn good....its gotten to be damn better) but i think far less people can afford it. i think that most people who want a fair weather toy want a drop top, for those that go to the track buy a coupe or do what i did, i put an autoform roll bar in my drop top, and 6pts.
 

Paul Hawker

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 1, 2000
Posts
4,660
Reaction score
0
Location
San Diego, Calif, USA
I have a different take on this.

Maybe we are over thinking, and over analyzing the slow sales.

I do not believe that the slow sales are due to the characteristics of the car, but more due to the characteristics of the economic situation.

The Gen V is certainly fast enough, and good looking enough that many people would like to own one.

In the past, new Vipers were mostly purchased by small business owners and professionals. Today, those customers are under significant economic pressure, and simply do not have as much extra money around to purchase an aspirational car.

I am a small business owner, and I sell my products to around 11,000 other small businesses. They are really getting squeezed economically, and are more worried about keeping their doors open than which sports car to buy.

I simply believe that the slow sales of Vipers today is not the car, but the economy.
 

Bruce H.

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Posts
646
Reaction score
19
Location
Near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Paul, the economy certainly has to be a factor for many. And probably to a greater degree for those buying in this price range than to those typically buying much more expensive vehicles, where their discretionary spending may be completely unaffected by the ups and downs of the economy.
 

bushido

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Posts
822
Reaction score
0
Location
Monterey,CA
I'd like to see more advances on the Viper. Been a long time Viper fanatic. I own 3 Vipers,gen 2, gen 4, gen 5 and a C6Z06. Tracked them all, etc..Ready to see some changes. Would be nice to have a DCT, or auto paddle shift on the next snake. Not to mention 6 piston brakes..

The Viper is currently racing, at Sebring, Lemans, Daytona against Corvette, and Porsche So it needs to compete with them on the street too.. Like the old saying goes " race on sunday , sell on Monday"..
 

Bruce H.

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Posts
646
Reaction score
19
Location
Near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I would have assumed it'd have 6 piston, but figured it got the job done with 4. Any idea why 4, any drawbacks, or is 6 more a marketing thing? I can see some opting for a DCT, even if just for a change.
 

bushido

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Posts
822
Reaction score
0
Location
Monterey,CA
I would have assumed it'd have 6 piston, but figured it got the job done with 4. Any idea why 4, any drawbacks, or is 6 more a marketing thing? I can see some opting for a DCT, even if just for a change.

Not a marketing thing,but more of a budget restraint is the reason why the 2003 gen 3 four piston calipers have been carried on to the gen 4 and the gen 5. The 4 piston brakes do not bite nearly as hard as a 6 pistons on the track( even with upgraded high performance pads, SS lines, Motul fluids). Especially lap after lap 20 minute sessions.. I didn't notice this until I tracked several of my friends cars. C6Z06 Carbon Edition( ZR1 brakes), 2011 GT3RS, and Nissan GTR. Steel rotors on the Carbon, and RS too.. Driving these cars on Laguna Seca. I can brake a lot later before coming to each corner. Enabling me to go faster with more confidence. . Laguna Seca is also a track that's very tough on the brakes. I think if the gen 4 ACR + the TA had 6 piston brakes. It would of probably done a 1.32, maybe even broke into the 1.31s at Laguna Seca..



I upgraded to 6 pistons 15inch rotor on my ACR. I also know a couple of other track rats like me that have done the same too.. My review..

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/2472-Stoptech-6-piston-BBK-Review
 

Bobpantax

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Posts
6,957
Reaction score
3
Location
Miami
The TA has a different rotor than the stock Gen V. It has a smaller hat resulting in more contact area and is more heat resisitant. Since the TA broke the Leguna Seca record with less of a tire than the stock ACR tire, I'd say its braking efficiency and fade reistance is excellent. Your thoughts?
 

bushido

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Posts
822
Reaction score
0
Location
Monterey,CA
The TA has a different rotor than the stock Gen V. It has a smaller hat resulting in more contact area and is more heat resisitant. Since the TA broke the Leguna Seca record with less of a tire than the stock ACR tire, I'd say its braking efficiency and fade reistance is excellent. Your thoughts?

it will be better than the 14 inch rotor, but won't bite nearly as hard with as with a 6 piston caliper..
 

09 Venom

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Posts
884
Reaction score
0
Location
New York
Had the car out yesterday and got the usual 'thumbs up', waves, stares, turn arounds to follow the car, cell phone pics etc but the best was one mans opinion of the gen V Viper as I was at the gas station. He said, 'that is one sick looking car". as he then proceeded to get in his Panamera turbo to drive away.
 

09 Venom

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Posts
884
Reaction score
0
Location
New York
Point I am making is I get positive comments constantly about the new car. Just because the performance #'s aren't leaps and bounds better than the previous generation qualifies it as a failure?? Porsche and corvettes have made a living with small, incremental performance gains. Fact is the gen V 'DRIVING EXPERIENCE' is far superior than any previous generation. As well as the quality and craftsmanship. A DCT option would create more buyers? that's ok as long as SRT always offers a true manual. That's one of the main reasons I bought another Viper. Still feel an old fashioned manual enhances the driving experience. Believe it or not I am willing to give up a few tenths in performance for it!!
 

emericr

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Posts
267
Reaction score
0
Location
Naples, FL
09Venom: again those are lame excuses, when the first Viper came out, it was a hit because it kicked b&&t everywhere. Now all the forum says is that it is a track star. That is my point. if SRT wants to sell more cars ie not shut down for a month which is the point of the OP, it has to be a star on the road and compete in straight line performance and everyday driving.
VRYALT3R3D: I never said the local dealer would not warrant the vehicle. You simply get better service and preferential treatment when you buy the car where you service it. I did talk to the sales manager directly at my local dealer and spent half hour going over my concern (service quality, availability of Viper Tech, etc) and he gave me a tour of the back shop). I also called 4 dealers around and asked to talk to the manager about the Viper. 2 of them never called back and 2 of them told me that they would not let people drive the car.

No question AMG's are very fast in a straight line. I had one of the very first 2007 E63's with the 6.2 engine and ran 12.1 116 bone stock. but that is where the performance ends. I loved that car for a daily driver. But any Viper owner will tell you the Viper was not designed for straight line performance. We have that too, especially the new Gen V trapping 129 bone stock but it is the track where the new car shines.

No you don't! Your warranty is valid at any SRT dealer. I never heard of a dealer, any brand, refusing warranty work because you didn't buy the car from them. No one ever asks me where I bought the car.



So you would have been willing to pay more for the Viper and purchase it from THAT dealer if they let you drive it and sit in it? Personally, I would have drove a hour to find a dealer that would let me test drive it, ask fow much they want for the Viper..and then shop around.



I had no problem getting a test drive. But of course, this varies dealer to dealer. I found that talking to the sales manager in advance, rather then just walzting in and asking a salesman, makes test driving it much easier.
 

Nsane1

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 8, 2000
Posts
1,153
Reaction score
0
Location
Dallas, TX US
Agree with you venom, this car is leaps and bounds ahead of performance as far as I saw when racing the jet. We'd never won with that kind of margin before, and it was bone stock... It looks great, I frankly have heard every reason under the sun on why they don't sell, and I frankly can't point to one. Frankly, the only reason I didn't but one day one is I wanted an orange one, and by the time they announced the T/A I had bought a car that costs more (than the SRT) but performs less, so I doubt my experience of "color" is representative of a wider trend...

On the paddle shifts, I think most of us "purists" would agree that a stick is more fun, but if you look at the sales of exotics, it's like 10% or less of true manuals now. My viper "replacement" car has paddles, and wow is it fun in short durations, but it gets old after awhile, IMO. Not sure if I had a choice which one I would get, I love stick, but everyone else seems to love paddles...
 

steve e

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 23, 1995
Posts
988
Reaction score
59
Its not the car, its the ECONOMY, its really bad, guys like me who love cars, in my income bracket can not make the stretch to buy one at this time, I am just trying to keep my business running. :omg:
 

emericr

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Posts
267
Reaction score
0
Location
Naples, FL
There we go again, you claim to not be defensive yet you state that people like me are irritating and off point.
A forum like this is for people to give their opinion. I am not bashing the Viper just giving my opinion on why SRT has not sold more Vipers which is the reason why the plant is closing down. I am right on point with this thread.
I was fully aware I am mixing apples and oranges but as stated before, I was a potential buyer of a Gen V since it made my top 5 list. I am different than most of you who want a track toy or a week end cruiser but obviously there are not enough of you guys to keep the doors open. Every buyer has their own parameters and you don't see me criticizing you guys who want a track star stating they should buy an Ariel Atom...
You defend the Viper by stating its intended operational environment is a road course. I totally disagree otherwise why did SRT create first two versions (SRT and GTS) that are road cars and advertise that it is now a daily driver. Only after both cars got beat by the existing Z06 that they came with the TA which is more focused for the track. This clearly shows that SRT is fully aware that it needs to appeal to more than one breed to survive.
I believe many of us (me included) wanted the Gen V to be what the Gen I was, a bad a%% car that took no prisoners anywhere, on the road and on the track. SRT unfortunately fell way short.
One company did it and it has been very successful sales wise. Is it a car for everyone? absolutely not (it is not **** like the Viper and is synthetic to name 2 of its main weaknesses) but it has the bragging rights that the Gen I had (beat the supercars performance wise).
If the rumors are true that the next GTR will be 850hp hybrid, they have my interest peaked and not SRT. I hope SRT looks at the forum or talks to some of you because right now they have sorta missed the boat. Closing the plant is due to low sales and any other explanation is marketing BS.

It really is not that we are defensive. It is that we are fed up with people making non helpful negative posts about the Gen V on the Gen V subforum that in no way help those interested in the Gen V enjoy the car. It is particularly irritating that a significant number of those posts, if not all of them, are made by people who have not driven the car and/or cannot afford to buy it.

The Gen V is not for everybody just like all of the other cars you mentioned in post 77 above are not for everybody. In fact the cars you listed are in a number of different categories. You mix apples, oranges, plums and carrots. Measuring the Gen V by quarter mile performance when its intended operational environment is a road course is just one of the many repeated themes that, to be frank, is irritating and off point.

I have no idea why so many self proclaimed Viper supporters have bashed the Gen V without even having driven the car. It is very peculiar behavior to do so and claim to support SRT and The Viper while doing so.

The car is a magnificent creation by SRT. I wish that those who have nothing positive to contribute to this sub forum would take their negativity elsewhere.

As experince with the Gen V increases I am hopeful that we will see more and more informative and helpful posts here that contribute toward the greater enjoyment of the car.
 
Last edited:

Bruce H.

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Posts
646
Reaction score
19
Location
Near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
A forum like this is for people to give their opinion. I am not bashing the Viper just giving my opinion on why SRT has not sold more Vipers which is the reason why the plant is closing down. I am right on point with this thread.
Correcty, and maybe you're just misunderstood. You've claimed to be in the market for a car for a long time now and have shared plentiful feedback, with a glance at your previous posts showing they're pretty much all entirely negative. You've been very critical of Viper owners as a group going back over a year, critical of the Gen V's seats, gauges, fender gap, price, and on and on...and complain they won't let you drive one!

Do you see any merit in focusing on finding a car that you might now actually want to own? Good luck with your search.
 
Last edited:

Bobpantax

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Posts
6,957
Reaction score
3
Location
Miami
The Gen V is what it is. The Gen I is a relic of the past which can never be built again due to massive regulatory changes beyond SRT's control. The same applies to the Gen II, the Gen III; and, to a lessor extent, to the Gen IV.

For those who are patient, which these days seems more and more rare, the aftermarket will eventually produce an affordable forced induction application for the Gen V that those who are more interested in using the car for drag racing can purchase. That happened with the Gen II and Gen III after a number of years. ( It did not happen quickly. Just ask Doug Levin and Dan Craigin. People tend to forget that it took a number of years and how difficult it was to "break the code" even then.)

The Viper has always been a limited production, exclusive car. The Gen V is much faster than many cars that cost far more that represent themselves as performance vehicles. It is much better looking than many, if not all, of those cars. Its current level of fit and finish is as good as any other brand in or above its price class.

If the car had the long history and tradition of Porsche or Ferrari and the enlightened, knowledgable skilled dealer network that both brands have, it would have sold out. But that has nothing to do with the car. The base model SRT and the TA are screaming bargains for what you get and people, at least down here in Miami, go absolutely nuts about it like no other car on the road. As an example of that, yesterday when I was having it cleaned, a brand new Mercedes SLS AMG was there at the same time. It was also black. My Viper got the attention and it was all positive. That says something about the car.

I hope you get a chance to drive one for a few miles. You will then more likely understand, on an emotional level, why many of us who have bought the car are such fervant supporters of the car.
 

Rapid Transit

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
Posts
52
Reaction score
0
Location
Bakersfield, CA
Had the car out yesterday and got the usual 'thumbs up', waves, stares, turn arounds to follow the car, cell phone pics etc but the best was one mans opinion of the gen V Viper as I was at the gas station. He said, 'that is one sick looking car". as he then proceeded to get in his Panamera turbo to drive away.

From what I've seen, the Gen V just floors people with its looks. But, like your experience, the higher end demographics that Dodge is going after is NOT buying the Gen V. They may ooh and ahh about it, but WHY is it that they're not biting? Why did that Panamera Turbo owner bypass the Viper when he admires it so much? Those people have plenty of disosable $. The Gen V was not catered to the working man Viper enthusiast (I feel that Dodge overlooked them and took them for granted).
 

SSGViper

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Posts
203
Reaction score
0
Location
Golden, CO
I have no idea why so many self proclaimed Viper supporters have bashed the Gen V without even having driven the car. It is very peculiar behavior to do so and claim to support SRT and The Viper while doing so.

But Bob, I've driven the Gen V and was not impressed. What do you have to say about that?
 

Bobpantax

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Posts
6,957
Reaction score
3
Location
Miami
How many miles did you drive it and were you able to drive it at speed in a straight line and around turns? When I drove the preproduction car at VOI 12 at low speed in the parking lot, I was not impressed. But my TA is considerably different in feel than the preproduction car was and you really need to feel second and third from 3000 up to "get" the car.

With that said, no car will please everyone. So if the Gen V is not for you, just enjoy your SSG.

But Bob, I've driven the Gen V and was not impressed. What do you have to say about that?
 

1BADGTS

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Posts
3,881
Reaction score
0
Underpowered?

Do you own one? Have you ridden in one?[/QUOTE Ihave driven approx 200k miles in every gen but the 5 .My gen 2 was one of the fastest NA Vipers in the country and my Gen 4 recorded the fastest PUBLISHED STOCK PRODUCTION EVER of 11.2 at near 130
 

Bobpantax

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Posts
6,957
Reaction score
3
Location
Miami
So the answers to his questions are "no" and "no". Correct? I will add one: Have you driven one at speed in an environment where it is lawful to do so?

Underpowered?

Do you own one? Have you ridden in one?[/QUOTE Ihave driven approx 200k miles in every gen but the 5 .My gen 2 was one of the fastest NA Vipers in the country and my Gen 4 recorded the fastest PUBLISHED STOCK PRODUCTION EVER of 11.2 at near 130
 

1BADGTS

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Posts
3,881
Reaction score
0
Bob your right as i cant run over to Buhler and in about 5 min take ANY GEN 5 he has out .Please those on this forum that OVERPAID for the GEN 5 will say anything to try to preserve some sort of resale value on their cars.The fact of the matter is this if they want to keep the model alive the only way to do so is drop the price to a point indictive of what the compet is offering .When a propective buyer can go out and buy a low mileage Ferrarri 430 or FGT at thousands less than a new Dodge theres a sales problem for the Dodge
 

netapp

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Posts
136
Reaction score
0
Location
East Texas
would love to see that fgt for thousands less than a dodge.


Bob your right as i cant run over to Buhler and in about 5 min take ANY GEN 5 he has out .Please those on this forum that OVERPAID for the GEN 5 will say anything to try to preserve some sort of resale value on their cars.The fact of the matter is this if they want to keep the model alive the only way to do so is drop the price to a point indictive of what the compet is offering .When a propective buyer can go out and buy a low mileage Ferrarri 430 or FGT at thousands less than a new Dodge theres a sales problem for the Dodge
 

05Commemorative

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Posts
480
Reaction score
0
Location
Sammamish, WA
would love to see that fgt for thousands less than a dodge.
Please, can we refer to the facts. Where is the FGT you found for less than 120K or less than 100k? Fully loaded GTS's can be found now for 99-109k easy. I would love to get a FGT in that price ranges.

also, you have owned prior gens (like many of us) but how does that translate into understanding the Gen5 without driving it? I am all for everyone having an opinion, but it does need to be based on some reality.

I have seen one person say they have driven the car (not sure how hard or what environment) and say they did not prefer it. Just one and that persons opinions are interesting to me and useful.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
153,143
Posts
1,681,575
Members
17,643
Latest member
thiagets
Top