SRT/10 Pac-NW VCA event. Driving / Riding Impressions. VERY LONG.

JonB

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Thanks to sponsors Timberline Dodge, Stevens Marine, Latham Motors, and some local help, the Pac-NW VCA was able to pony up a sizeable cost offset, and host an SRT/10 "engineering evaluation" of sorts here in Portland. THANKS PVO Team Viper for your help/trust/support/willingness. WHAT A COMPANY !

This SRT/10 was not a mule, but a C-1 vehicle. #30. New fenders, new deeper hinge covers. New decklid spoiler. "What we saw is what we get." Longer wheelbase by about 3". Important: Only the FRONT is wider, by about 2.5". And you can feel it. read on...

Hydraulic, variable speed radiator fan, temp interfaced. Unusual radiator-water-oilcooler-heat exchanger that some race teams will understand. Key FOB trunk release. Tiny Trunk, no spare; Cool red START button like my 67 E-Type had. HOT sills for now....still improving. Power pedal adjusters. Manual dead pedal adjust, tools required. But a real DEAD PEDAL ! Sueded seat centers to minimize fanny-slide. Seatback tilt difficult to find and use. Coils under the I/M. Forceps and patience needed to change wires. Airbox houses twin, horizontal cannister filters. Twin air scoops thru grille and a duct (not a NACA) in the hood. Very **** looking when hood is up, unlike current airbox.

Pre-Cut and plugged 6-pt Racing Harness anchors, and channels thru the seat to accomodate them (THANKS J.F. and H.H.!) Glass rear window w/ defrost. One-latch top. (Low roofline 6'3" tall is a challenge.) When top is up, the doorlatches auto-drop the windows 1/8 inch to open doors from a TIGHT seal. Then automatically close windows TIGHT when car starts. Light switches, including fogs, are all on turn signal stalk. 14" front AND rear rotors. BIG rear Brembo "VIPER" calipers, with a Stop-Tech-like e-brake caliper below. Impressive thru the wheels

30 or so members attended over the 2-day event. Watch for a story in Viper magazine, so I wont write it all here. A senior engineer from PVO, with Team Viper since 1991, was our honored guest. "RB" like the roast-beef sandwich. Cool guy.

Tech Session; 90-mile convoy; car show with 19,000 spectators, police ******, beach resort luncheon; rider swap every 20 miles;
convoy back, rider swaps. Dinner/doorprizes. 8am-5pm Driving school next day, Portland Int'l Raceway. Life is GOOD.

The grandstand began to fill. More in Viper Mag.....

EVERY VCA member who wanted one, got a chance to ride at PIR for an evaluation. 3 laps. Serious track rats got out grinning WIDE. Non-track members got out wobbly-legged.

And the Viper was at 75%, with the PVO engineer at the wheel.

Much Much more in Viper mag............ but read on.

After all our members had ridden, I hoped to cajole a chance to (secretly?) do a rider swap on the way back to Timberline Dodge. We were told that only official engineering evaluation events could allow a non-official driver in a pre-production car. My hopes were very low of that rider swap. Tech Ken Klickman had driven the car fom Reliable drop to the showroom, a few blocks. "Logistics necessity." I was jealous.

So, as the day waned and members departed, we found ourselves with a 10-minute gap. I was called to the tower. PVO engineer dangles the keys like a carrot and says the magic words:

"I have a special request....Id like you to do an engineerig evaluatiion and give me a report. Three Laps." You could have heard a pin drop. ARE YOU SERIOUS? Yes. 75% max, report back. WHOOPEEE....down the tower. Ooops. Forgot Brenda.
Collected Brenda. Helmets on. Key wont start ! My luck. OOPS. Red Start Button. VROOM. Whew. Lemme see....75% is about 4500 rpm, right?
Motor hot. Fuel good. Released. Solo. Free at last, Top Down.
TALL, ANGULAR FENDER TOPS! Exotic view. Looks like a Vector fender, kind of. Deep hood louvres to look down into...If/when a radiator hose ever blows, the windshield WILL BE DOUSED or FOGGED.

Familiar steering rate and response, but FLAT. No roll. Goes where pointed, when pointed. Ride is much less stiff than ACR, and somehow more supple than the GTS. Nice riding, not stiff. Comfortable, seat, slide track Up-Down wheel, not a tilt wheel. Exactly like my StealthTT and Neon RT.

Looong clutch release. Sean will fix. Looong tall shifter knob travel. MGW will fix. Raging power off the line, shift at 4000.
LONG travel again. Same "feel" but long...... Shift at 4000.
Apprroacing T1, I normally brake at "6 marker" (before the 5)

So I lift and brake at 6. HOLY SHEET this thing has got some real BRAKES. Reminds me of Panoz GTS. WOW. I release brakes at 2 mark, already going too slow ! Hard right, Indy cars go 35-40mph. Paul Tracy 41. 42 is in the gravel. FLAT, NO ROLL. TURNS in and unsteers great.

Downshift, 2nd, Puuuuls out of 2, around 3. Short straight.
I brake at 4 normally....... 2 now. WOW. BRAKING MONSTOR.
Power goes on SSMMMOOOOOOOOTHE as silk.

Now, the surprize: T5,6,7 can be BUGGERS in my GTS if you add too much throttle. NOT THE SRT/10 ! The new viscous-coupled rear end reminds me of how a 911TT puts power down. No scuffing like the GTS rear as it grabs for traction. Acts like a Quaife. HOOKS UP NOW. AMAZING. Flat. No body roll.

Back Straight. GTS usually 130mph. I am SO CONFIDENT of these awesome brakes that I just brake at 4. Usually 5+. WOW! Coulda gone even deeper. Now, a usual body-rolling weave thru 80-85mph T 10/11. I love this dead pedal !!!

This SRT/10 is FLAT. No roll. But a compliant yet firm ride. Not stiff bouncy. NICE. I can actually FEEL the lower center of gravity, due to the lowered motor and trans. Also moved rearward. Man, this beast is balanced and low-feeling.

Front straight. Corner worker boss signals his jealosy. Says Im Number One ! Now, lap two.

I go deeper than ever before, still shifting at only 4500 rpm.
Faster now, and still flat, controlled, amazing. Back straight I go to 5000 rpm. Way below redline. Still pulling. Obviously stronger than my GTS. Front straight again, check guages. **** .....temp says 260 ! YIKES. Uh-oil. That is oil temp! Normal. What a car........... Brakes galore, I cannot get over how great these brakes are!

Lap 3, 1/2 cooldown. Pit. PVO sees the grin, says TAKE ONE MORE
SESSION. Cody *****, our incoming VP gets in. We reprise the 3 laps, but now I know the car a bit better. Did I say how amazing the brakes are? The rear-end hookup? The flat, responsive chassis and steering? The ride? FAST. Still shift at 5000 rpm, straight up. Habit I guess. Session ends too soon. Corner workers, knowing my glee, are applauding. You would think I had won an event ! (I guess I did, kind of..)

Closing comments:

-Car is quiet, even at WOT. Aftermarket
-Upper Sills are HOT, flat. ZAF-easy to dress up. Aftermarket.
- Come to VOI-7 and drive one yourself, thanks to PVO again !

I chased the SRT/10 a few laps, too. (Taillight signature is what most other cars will ever see...including most Vipers.) Awesome b-u-t-t end look on this car at eye-level from behind it, even tho he did hit me with a 110mph big gooey tire ****!
**** backwards at 100, Im going 100... = 200? Black on yellow.

Tires are really sticky, and seem to be able to be bolted right on a GTS. PVO guy did not like the jack-wielding lug wrenchers eyeing the setup! But I think its a no-brainer fit, per some tape-measure lookseeing.

Ill edit in some more comments later.

Did I say how happy our VCA was for this privilige? THANKS JF,HH, and RB for the best Pac-NW event ever! And we've had some great ones.

LAST COMMENT: If status/outrageous looks/curb appeal are top priority, this car (only) comes in on the podium. But if performance alone, in every aspect, is your top priority, make it your own.

This Viper makes my 93RT seem like my 67 TR-GT6. And my 2 GTSs seem like fond cousins, but of an earlier generation. Gen-III means something here.

The 2003 SRT/10 ROCKS my fellow owners.....It gave me goosebumps again, just to write this. I just hope I can afford to keep mine. (Please buy some parts, soon?) I have seen the light. I am converted.

Grail Keeper, you have kept the faith. You should be proud.

JonB~~~~~:<~ Pac-NW VCA Event Planner
 

Mike Brunton

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JonB,

AWESOME write up. Anyone who actually DRIVES their car will appreciate the comments on the handling and the brakes. Those who are more concerned with swoopy curves can keep their GTS's - I'll take two (better looking) SRT's over a GTS anyday!

I haven't heard from anyone who has seen the PRODUCTION version in person who hasn't loved it, and I haven't heard from anyone who has driven one that hasn't said this car DOMINATES the GTS in EVERY SINGLE WAY.

Thanks Jon!
 

KWIK

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Logistics, my butt! I was still the first non-engineer type to drive the car. So remember, you'll still always be second...
Ken Klickman
 

Hans Christian

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JonB,

YEAH, bring it on - Thank you for taking the time to write about this spectacular experience - I wish I had been there !!

One question: You mentioned that it would be a challenge for a 6'3" to fit with the top up - I am exactly that tall. What are the options for lowering the seat - with your experince, is that a possible aftermarket solution (1 or 2 inches)or ??.
 
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JonB

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hans Christian:
... You mentioned that it would be a challenge for a 6'3" to fit with the top up - I am exactly that tall. What are the options for lowering the seat - with your experince, is that a possible aftermarket solution (1 or 2 inches)or ??.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Never Underestimate The Aftermarket" {Bob Lutz)

I looked VERY closely at the seat attachment. In my opinion, there is NOT 2" to be had. Maybe .75 - 1.0". Or, an aftermarket seat. Or, a re-padded (de-padded?) OE seat. I am also 6'3". The top clearance is very similiar to the soft-top ribs clearance and windsheild header visibility of my 93. I drove it 50,000 miles anyway, including to INDY from PIR, round trip.

A FAMOUS MLB tall baseballer VIP was 'fitted' by Bill Luke Dodge for a prototype SRT/10. ---Unfair VIP thing---- OE seat was going to be a challenge for a dealer to modify. LOOK TO AFTERMARKET!!! But dont count on 2". You might not need it.

And Remember, you will be TOP DOWN much of the time !
 

C O D Y

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by venom:
Wow, seems like all the experts, ie Jon B..that have driven the car are truly amazed by its performance, although the limited height restriction, ie tough for six foot four inchers has me a little worried, but heah like Jon B said there is always aftermarket!!!!!!! anyone think the beast will break into the high three seconds for the zero to sixty dash or the elevens for the quarter mile...guesses anyone!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes and Yes. and it's not a guess.
 

Snakester

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Great write-up!
supergrin.gif

I want one!!

Thanks Jon.

-Dean.
 
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I went all the way out to Portland from North Dakota to see the SRT. Like any new body style it is something we have to get used to, it is growing on me.

My ride in the SRT made me a believer on the rumored performance. I was impressed how it handled.

I have to admit, I was hoping it would fit a 6"5" guy a little bit better. Guess I will still have to duck the gr****oppers.
 

commoditybroker

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JonB,
Thanks for the write-up! Every d*mn time I read something about the SRT, I get more excited....5'8" will be no problem! I can't wait to take a ride in an SRT, especially when it is mine!

Jon, a question:
How is the new gauge alignment. I really like the idea of a center-mounted tach and the remaining necessities flanking the right side. How did they work for you?

Zach
 

toddt

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And you didn't think you were going to get to drive it!!!

Congrats, Jon-- sounds like it is really going to rock the world, performance-wise.

Can you give us a take on the engine through the open hood? How tough does it look to get to the plugs, for example? How will maintainability be?
 

VOI9 ASP

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JonB... What a ride!

Can you tell me how the seats fit? Was there enough room for a semi wide body? Are the final seats about the same size as the current GTS or RT-10?

I can't wait for my SRT!
 
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JonB

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by toddt:
And you didn't think you were going to get to drive it!!!

Can you give us a take on the engine through the open hood? How tough does it look to get to the plugs, for example? How will maintainability be?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I was told I would almost certainly NOT drive it and better not to ask. So I did'nt. I was {shocked, surprised, stunned, honored, excited, hyperventillating..) when I was asked to perform an "engineering evaluation" and provide a report. PVO saw the report, and allowed me to post it here, and told me not to change one word. They also read ALL the posted comments here today....and called to ask me to elaborate on one of my minor 'issues'. WHAT A COMPANY !

The engine compartment is so much tighter than with a clamshell hood. Radiator hoses / air filters / routine stuff is relatively easy, except for plug wires. Pull the I/M or be surgically precise with forceps.! The plugs are easier than my Stealth TT...but most everything is..........
 
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JonB

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Venom 2K:
JonB... What a ride! Can you tell me how the seats fit? Was there enough room for a semi wide body? Are the final seats about the same size as the current GTS or RT-10?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As you know Jerry, Im a big guy too......6'3" 235lb. 40" waist before lunch. The seat was FINE except the recline mechanism makes you do a 1/2 left pretzel by the braille method.

Comfortable seat. Nice looking, esp the seat hartness tracks. I hope they are not too close together. Felt like a deeper bucket, and a bit harder to climb out over the sill with the top up. One big-footed-***** actually tore the composite sill cover off the passenger side with his size 12! (Engineering said it had 2 of 4 anchors already damaged in prior testing.)

The sueded seat surfaces helped the OE belts hold you in place, even in the twisties.
 

Y2K10 SRT#39

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Many thanks to Jon and the OR VCA that put on this event for us to see. What a time we had with the new car. It was wonderful.
Ron Bauer and the PVO group are first class!!

However....
John Fernandez did not deliver as promised (second time..yellow was the first). He promised I would fit. At 6'6" I'm here to tell you that....I don't. Fortunately, this car is for the wife!!! If you are over 6'3"--- you won't fit.
 

Nsane1

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Jon, you rock, I feel like I was there, and wish I was. I am SOOO ready for my darn car!!! Hurry up!
 
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JonB

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by commoditybroker:
JonB, a question: How is the new gauge alignment. I really like the idea of a center-mounted tach and the remaining necessities flanking the right side. How did they work for you? Zach <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Frankly, I remember the tach being immediately and intuitively right there in my face. I don't even remember the speedo, but do remember I looked on the last 2 laps when I intentionally short-cut the chicane. Went 130+, flat and stable...easily could have been 160-165. Flat, neutral no lift. Jeees, the goosbumps came back again! Ask Cody !!

The vertical dash guage stack on IP-rt side is very easy to read. Good thing, because I normally would not like my eyes moving down, off the track visual. I forget what the bottom guage was...did not have time to read it. I would prefer the water temp above the oil temp....but easy to read. Have to check the photos....
 

viperweb

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JonB - PartsRack:


SRT/10: ABS-ON full panic stop from 100mph to Zero: 4.0 sec
0-100-0......under 12 sec !!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that for sure? That would be so awesome!
 
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JonB

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The "Short Lead Press Intro" is occuring this week, and the media will validate the PVO results above....IF they can drive that well !!! Some obviously can......

Final Top Speed tests maybe next week........

Maurice L is there, and sure to have some insight. The press likes the 'new' look..........
 
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JonB

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Elaborating, as I replay the evaluation, over and over.....

When I got out, I JUMPED away from what I thought was the heat of the sidepipe outlet. I even commented 'Ooops, I forgot the sidepipe exhaust tips are hot.' (I had these ***** short sox on, not driving shoes.)

THEN I realised the heat was actually from the rear ROTORS !!!

THESE REAR BRAKES WORK NOW! Remember, I had only done a 1/2 lap cool down. They were HOT....a good thing. Man, that car stops fast.

SRT/10: ABS-ON full panic stop from 100mph to Zero: 4.0 sec
0-100-0......under 12 sec !!!
 

Tomer

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Thanks JonB...Just to clarify, is the handling FLAT, no roll?
supergrin.gif


What about making this thing legal for most tracks? They won't let you run with the top down right? And you can't run with top up unless you have a roll bar??

curious
Tomer
PS I thought the power was not much of an improvement, but to be clear, the GEN II is 450hp flywheel...And the SRT-10 is 515 RWHP...thats a big diff!
 

VOI9 ASP

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I thought I heard from a few people that the use of a hardtop will allow the car on the track. I also remember hearing there were several people / companies designing hardtops that were to be ready a few months after the cars hit the streets.

Maybe Jon B or one of the VCA officers can tell us if they made accommodations for the hookup of a hard top on the final version???
 
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JonB

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Venom 2K:
...Maybe Jon B ......can tell us if they made accommodations for the hookup of a hard top on the final version? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We asked about it, reply: "Not At This Time"

We snooped for a way: Very Difficult.

Parade boot? Very Easy !

"Never Underestimate the aftermarket" B.L.
 

Y2K10 SRT#39

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JonB (partsrack)promised an aftermarket seat lowering kit from NRE for $4,000 that would allow me to fit...
MIKE--
get busy!!
I need one!!! I has to slide!!!
 

Ray R

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I also got to go for a ride with Ron Bauer at the wheel. Jon is right, the car stays flat! And ya...Ron was driving with a water bottle resting in the cup holder....geeze....yuppie!!! ;~)

Ron was great! Answered all of my questions willingly! Ron made the day a great one! Driving around the track "in a hurry", I didn't notice any real unpleasant wind noise or buffeting. And yes, the car is fast!

As for maintenance, I noticed the oil filter looked to be a snap to get to. There didn't look to be any frame members to drip onto, and it looked to be mounted straight vertical, so the oil should drain straight down. (I could see the filter from the top).

The engine compartment looked much cleaner than my GTS. All of the same stuff was there, but the non-engine components were just better hidden. I was surprised that the maintenance items seemed relatively easy to get to, including plugs. I thought that without the clamshell, the engine compartment would look "stuffed". But not so. Clean and muscular. Cleanliness may be due to the single throttle body and intake manifold. No more trying to balance the throttle cables!

I also thought the exhaust note was quite pleasant. Not the "twin UPS truck" sound as before. A bit more throaty, in my opinion. I have Corsa's on my GTS, and I thought the SRT-10 sounded almost as good. Especially down the front straight at PIR with the sound reflecting off the concrete barrier.

At 6'4", my head made a bubble in the soft top. With the top down, I fit ok. The seats were REALLY comfortable compared to my GTS (which has a 2" lowering kit).

A couple of Ron's comments:

1)"The car is still capable of low speed 'bucking' as before, but not as bad."
2)"We tested it in 115 degree traffic in Arizona, and it never heated up."

As for the exterior looks? I'll be keeping the GTS.

My $.0000002
 

Motor City Mad Man

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tomer:
PS I thought the power was not much of an improvement, but to be clear, the GEN II is 450hp flywheel...And the SRT-10 is 515 RWHP...thats a big diff!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Wait a minute, yes the GEN II is rated at 450 hp at the flywheel, but the new Viper SRT-10 was supposed to be rated at 500 hp at the flywheel-not 515 at the rear wheels from what I have heard. Is that correct? I mean I heard they wanted 500 hp, 500 ft lb torque, and 500 CI. Manufacturers always spec their cars out to the public by quoting flywheel hp.

I have no doubt that as far as performance goes the new Viper will absolutely kick butt. I mean the GEN II design and everything is more than 6 years old now. If Dodge came out with the GEN III's and they didn't kick butt performance wise compared to the old Vipers, then it would be pretty pathetic. It looks like from the comments on this thread that it will kick butt!!!

But, sadly even with the slight changes Dodge has made to the exterior styling, it still does nothing for me. I saw the 2003 Viper at the Detroit auto show back in January and here is one comment I overheard from 2 guys. What is that? It says it's the new Viper. It is? says the other guy with a sound of dissapointment in his voice. And they quickly moved on to the next exhibit. I actually was able to take some clean shots of the car with my camera with no people in the way because not many people were over there looking at it.

The next time I think I saw it was at our Viper parade lap before the Sirius Satellite Radio 400 NASCAR race. Deiter Zeutsche (sp?) the CEO of Daimler-Chrysler was driving it. I sat in it. I saw it driven on the track there. Still it just does not stand out as something that I would lust after.

Then Dodge parked two 2003's and a Viper GTS-R concept car at their exhibit for the Woodward Dream Cruise a few weeks ago in Detroit. I would assume they were the latest production versions. Anyways, people paid absolutely no attention to the 2003 Vipers. I did not go over and look at them either. I mean they might as well have been 2 beige Honda Accords parked in their place. But the public and I loved the hard-top GTS-R concept car. Which this Competition Coupe they are making will look a lot like. Too bad they are only making 50 of them the first year and you can't title them for the street. 1.5 million people at the Dream Cruise and no one seemed to want to walk over to see the new 2003 Vipers. I guess that says it all. They all feel the same way I do. Mind you with Dodge only building 1,500 to 2,000 of these a year they will have no problem selling them. But I think many are still disappointed with the new look. Actually, I have kind of been disappointed with the new look of the Lamborghini and Ferrari's lately too. Maybe a lot of these new hot shot car designers are on crack or something. Who knows. Still they, and the 2003 Viper look better than 95% of the other cars on the road.

I was at the Dream Cruise admiring all these beautiful cars from the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and I am wondering there sure will be a short list of cars built in this era that will go down as classics. Where did it all go South? Was it during the energy crisis of the 70's when all these cars turned into little economy **** boxes? Sad.
 

SRT10

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I think I'm experiencing "de-ja vu".
grazy.gif
Haven't we been here before? Trips to the Detroit Auto Show, Woodwards Dream Cruise, ect, ect!!
devil.gif
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