The question that most can't answer correctly

[VIPER D]

The question that most can\'t answer correctly

Are vipers big blocks or smalls blocks??????

2nd part to the question what makes a big block? Is it displacement?

I've heard all diffrent answers from cubic inches to size of the bore and sroke.

what do you guys think.


vd..

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

"Big block" and "small block" originate from the two different blocks the Big Three had back in the good ol' days.

Personally, if you're able to get 488 cubes out of a block, I'd call it a big block.

 

[RichieSRT10]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

I agree Chuck it is a big block for sure.

 

[BLUESNAKE367]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

Agree, BIG BLOCK....

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

I thought it was just a huge small block, but what do know

 

[big-n-italian]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

i always thought it was displacement.

i remember a 427, 454, 440, 426, all being called big blocks. therefore if 488 is bigger than these, i would have to say big block too.

another question assuming displacement is the answer- i always wondered where the SB/BB dividing "line" was. is a 383 a BB? i remember a 360 being called a SB, and a 383 a BB. therefore, is the SB/BB division at 370?

 

[Viper Specialty]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

Its a tough call. By displacement, the OEM Viper block does exceed the general factory designation of SBC Vs. BBC, which was 6 liters. (yes there are exceptions of SB's with +6.0L) However, some will say the Viper is a V-10, where the others were V-8's. Since SB VS BB has more to do with block deck width than its length. However, when you get down to it, the Viper engine block, even -2 cylinders in a V8 configuration it still >6.0L.

Then there is the camp that says it goes by bore...

In short, there really isnt a difinitive answer...SB and BB were never meant to reference a Viper block.

 

[TedK]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

I thought it was just a huge small block, but what do know

Correct! By size, its a big block. But it can rev like a small block, bore and stroke in the 10 cylinders is similar to SB chevy.....Bore = 4.03 vs 4.00, and Stroke = 3.96 vs 3.48.

 

[twinturbo3150]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

so the magnun rt 5.7 liter hemi, Is that considered a small block, what about the manugm srt8 with 6.1 liter's. Same engine as the 5.7 except it comes bored and stroked, does that change to a big block?

 

[Simms]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

I thought it was just a huge small block, but what do know

Correct! By size, its a big block. But it can rev like a small block, bore and stroke in the 10 cylinders is similar to SB chevy.....Bore = 4.03 vs 4.00, and Stroke = 3.96 vs 3.48.

This is the same thing I heard.

 

[Melanzana]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

I am sure there are some old school engine guys who can enlighten us. I say its a small block with 2 more cylinders. The V10 is much closer to a 360 with 2 more holes. Bore size is a big factor. A big block chevy has a bore size or 4.250 minimum whereas a small block Chevy is closer to 4.00 in. so based on that I say small block plus 2 cylinders.

 

[Bonkers]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

My answer -
Big Block or Small Block, its still Mister to you...

 

[hemibeep]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

Small block. Bare it weighs almost less than its crankshaft.

Big block. large displacement.

OLD timers answer. Ma Mopar used to have a 318ci that was a big block as well as a 361 big block.

I think the viper was born after big/small block terms were used(generally speaking) and it would have to be compared in some way to other 10cylinders to know where its realative size fits in.

I don't think there is a correct answer for this

 

[Cris]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

Small block. It is based on the 318/360 which was a small block.

 

[Viper X]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

Interesting question.

I always thought (old guy answer) these terms applied more to the size of the block, i.e. deck height and spread, and not specifically to the displacement. There will always be some crossover point with displacement. If you look at a small block chevy on an engine stand next to a big block chevy, the differences are very clear.

My vote, small block bored and stroked with 2 extra cylinders.

The new version of my "small block" V-10 displaces 530 cubic inches. I've heard of guys planning to build 600 ci Viper engines. You've got to love these times.

Dan

 

[Gerald]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

I dunno, if Chebby, etc called a 427 a "Big Block" with 8 holes and our Vipers have 10 holes and 488-505 Cu. In., I'd say it's a "Small Block" , but what do I know..

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

The term big block was generated by the companies/owners with V8 engines in several basic sizes, to help differentiate them. In general big blocks were heavier, and allowed strokes greater than 3 7/8 in and bores larger than 4 in. At the time the name came to be (mid sixties) Chevy had 2 large block families: the 348/409 and the 396/427 (and later 454 and 502). Chrysler had 2 large block families: the wedge motors 383/427/440 and the street Hemi 427. Ford had several as well: the 427 the 428 and 429. The most confusing big block was the Oldsmobile which had a 350 displacement available (not to be confused with an equally sized small block) with larger sizes as well. and so on.

These were all in comparison to engines in the low to middle 300 cu in range for each. Chevy 265/283/302/307/327/350 and later 400 (not counting todays versions). Chrysler had the 318/340/360 and Ford the 289/350/351 etc.

The most significant differentiator was potential displacement, which for big blocks was in excess of 400 cu in and for small blocks less than 400 cu in. But this was not a rule as the name really differentiated engine families within a single company.

Now, for the Viper engine one could clearly state that since it is based on the architecture (bore spacing, crankshaft centerline, camshaft centerline) of the 360 (5.9L) that it is an extension of a small block and thus is a small block. Modern components have allowed what was called a small block to be stretched to well over 400 cu in for an 8 cylinder (witness the 7.0L / 427 in Z06) or the Viper to 8.3L / 505 cu in for a V10. But that has not changed the basic architecture which is small block based.

 

[Jim Z]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

The distinction is pretty much meaningless these days.

in the past, the bore spacing (not bore diameter itself) was one key characteristic; a wider bore spacing does allow for a larger bore diameter, and increases the size of the block.

There were the oddities, like the 400-427 ci Chevy small blocks, or the big-block Caddy 368, and so forth.

 

[SweetRed04]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

I am sure there are some old school engine guys who can enlighten us. I say its a small block with 2 more cylinders. The V10 is much closer to a 360 with 2 more holes. Bore size is a big factor. A big block chevy has a bore size or 4.250 minimum whereas a small block Chevy is closer to 4.00 in. so based on that I say small block plus 2 cylinders.

I agree. The differentiation is based on BORE SPACING, not bore diameter or stroke. In the Chevy world there were 348 and 396 Big Blocks and 400 Small Blocks (now 427+ small blocks).

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

Ah, but bore spacing implies bore diameter potential. Block height also implies stroke potential. Those elements are intertwined.

 

[SRTdownunder]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

The "Inner Circle" at Dodge has been calling this engine the "smig ball block" or sbb. THis comes from a very reliable source on the inside. Sorry can't mention any names or he/she's job would be on the line.

 

[kickinasp]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

Lets answer the question proposed, not all the special exceptions. The definition used in the past for the difference between Big Block/Small Block was bore size and spacing. At the time, since all performance engines in the Big 3 were 8 cylinders, the multi-cylinder arguement did not surface. The Viper engine is clearly based on a small block Chrysler design with additional cylinders added. Its a small block. You might not like that term for a 488/505 Cubic inch engine, but if you grafted two cylinders onto a Chrysler 360, I dont think anyone would argue you have a small block 360 with two additional cylinders... oh wow...thats what Chrysler did. Its a small block.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

Agree. Small block with 2 extra cyl's would probably be most accurate.

Old Big Block/Small block was meaningful when automakers acually made two versions of engines. They called one V8 Big, and one Small. Third options were 6 cyl.

Big blocks usually made hp and torque down low, and small blocks reved higher.

Since Viper's engine comes in only one size block currently, this discussion would have limited application.

 

[gthomas]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

Small blocks/ big blocks differ in casting size. That is the simple answer. Put them side by side and you will see the size difference.

The different casting sizes also created 'family of engines' with interchangeable (mostly) parts.

Chevy created the first BB (346cid).

The famous Pontiac 400/455 h.o.'s were from a single block family (neither small nor big block) ranging from 287-455 cid.

Look for images of the engine compartments of a 289/302/351 vs. a 428CJ. Didn't the first gen Mustangs with big blocks have to have a motor mount removed and the engine lifted to get to the back plugs? [I only have experience with the 2nd gen(71-73)].

A bit of useless trivia: The first generation Mustang was not designed for a big block, it was shoe-horned in. Buuutttttt the Camaro was designed for both small and big-blocks from the onset.

 

[Jeff Lemke]

Re: The question that most can\'t answer correctly

I'd say its definately a big block. What difference does it make if the block is only bigger in length? It's still bigger. Most people who see that motor for the first time state "That's huge!"

It HAS to be big to hold those cubes. It really comes down to how we like to descibe our cars.