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This is embarassing...but

Discussion in 'SRT10 and SRT10 Coupe Discussions' started by black mamba1, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. 1TONY1

    1TONY1 Enthusiast

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    Excellent advice !!
    Pretend that you are leaving a traffic light on the street and don't want to spin the tires....then like Paul said, you can start to be more aggressive. You can practice this on the street too :D
     
  2. Viper X

    Viper X VCA Member - South VCA Member

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    We held a car control clinic last year in a very large parking lot and plan to hold one again this November in Fontana at Auto Club Speedway.

    One of our stations was a "launch" station, supervised by Lyle Larson of DC Performance. Lyle is an ex-pro drag racer.

    We had members practice burn outs and we had a drag race "tree" so that our members could learn the "lights".

    Everyone who participated improved their launches, burn outs and car control skills.

    Some of the other clubs likely do this too. If not, you may want to suggest it.

    Dan :drive:
     
  3. Snakester

    Snakester Enthusiast

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    I'll also add that there is a LOT of good advice in this thread for someone new to drag racing their Viper.

    One of the bigger points is attitude. So many times I've been to the track and see people disappointed (myself included) because they are expecting to match (or beat) the best times of expert drivers as read about in magazines or online. Easily the smartest way to make your car quicker is to simply practice driving, especially launching. Over and over.

    Often times, shaving 0.5 seconds off of your 60 ft time will gain you as much as a full second in the 1/4 mile. But contrary to your natural instinct, you often get quicker 1/4 mile times by running smoother, rather than harder. Running harder just causes the tires to spin, and the car to get out of control.:omg:

    If you get wheel hop, immediately get OUT of the throttle. With the massive torque of even a bone stock Viper it's like using a jackhammer on your rear end, and the U-joints are going to break. Just blow off the run if you get a bad launch and practice smooth shifts over the rest of the 1/4 mile run instead of trying to make up the time lost.

    It's easy to have your adrenelin flowing just thinking about everyone watching you, and judging you by their expectations of the Viper running 10s. Instead you need to think about the whole visit to the track as being a point of honing your driving and especially launching skills, and try to put the times out of your head, and consequently/ironically your times will improve because of it.
    Instead of trying to do a dramatic smokey burnout/takeoff at launch, think about simply taking off from an intersection quickly with nobody around watching. Be smooth.

    On street tires I drive AROUND the water box, and do a short, quick spin of the tires just to clean off the rocks and dirt off of the tires. Many street tires will actually run slower when you do a full burn out. Sweating.

    Again I'd try some runs without revving the engine at all first. The engine will sometimes bog a bit, but practice accelerating smoothly rather than hard and you will easily get quicker 60' times than 2.5, which will result in better 1/4 mile times.
    Maybe even try out a smooth launch from 2nd gear and 2500RPM and see how that works.

    Also following the smooth theme, you might do a bit of a short-shift from 2nd to 3rd gear at maybe 4500-5000 RPM, so that the car doesn't break loose the tires in the shift (keeping it settled) and again perhaps getting better times.

    I would drop the rear tire pressures down from stock, but if you go below 24psi you can start to lose some time there too (depending on the track prep) because having too little tire pressure can have you running on just the outside edges of your tires, reducing it's contact patch. It's just another thing to play with after you have the basic launch dialed in.

    The biggest thing is to go there and have some fun, and perhaps learn some new skills along the way. Better times will come with more practice and confidence, just like with a circuit track.:2tu:
     
  4. pteam

    pteam Viper Owner

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    and the most important part, dont wreck, and try not to break anything. Either of those would be worse than a slow time ;)
     
  5. black mamba1

    black mamba1 Viper Owner

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    I really appreciate all the valuable input. My car is modded and has crazy torque for the power it produces. This is an unusual combination for a new drag race driver. It makes for a car that is almost uncontrollable at start w/out much practice due to the torque, but not quite producing the power to make up for a bad start. I think this may cause many a bad Viper driver to simply go and get a Paxton once humiliated at the track due to not knowing how to drive these cars in the 1/4 mile. Yes, if I had another 150-250 rwhp I still could have run high 10's maybe or 11's with my crummy 60' times. So, I wonder if instead of learning to drive the car correctly and just swallowing pride for a few track visits while we learn to drive the car, I think many guys are saying..."to hell with these screwed up times, I am gonna get a Paxton or Twin Turbo and really show them!"

    I am not going to do that. Yes, I will get a Paxton AFTER I learn how to proficiently drive my car as is. With all the wonderful advice I have received in this post and with the cool air in North Carolina this week......my mouth is watering to get back to the track this week!
     
  6. Warfang

    Warfang Viper Owner

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    Take video! Especially from inside... would be a good way for the more experienced people here to view your technique and give pointers.

    Part of being the best is being able to be the butt of the joke while you're learning. Humility makes people want to help you more... even while they're laughing at your expense. It pays to be thick-skinned. Also totally agree with you about holding off on the mods. I'm near stock and this beast is more than I can handle. Looking forward to reading about improved times! :2tu:
     
  7. 1BADGTS

    1BADGTS Enthusiast

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    The way your car is set up now it should run low 11s ar near 130 on Pilots with the right driver .Buy the time you get done with the Paxton and ALL the proper saftey equiptment your going to be out another 15 grand (at least )to run 5-6 tenths faster (tire for tire ) Its your money of coarse but you had better be aware of EXACTLY what your getting in to BEFORE you drop any more money into your car.(Hypothethically what happens IF you put a hole in a piston after the 12 grand plus blower install are you prepared.)
     
  8. GR8_ASP

    GR8_ASP Enthusiast

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    Wow, Paxton prices must have skyrocketed!

    One of the owners that did it for the fun while driving on the street and infrequent runs at the road course. The fun is worth the price of admission (though the price was less than 1/2 of what is stated above, even including a roll bar). If all I wanted was a drag car I would get a Mustang.
     
  9. Ray W

    Ray W Enthusiast

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    ALL the proper saftey equiptment your going to be out another 15 grand (at least )to run 5-6 tenths faster (tire for tire ) Its your money of coarse but you had better be aware of EXACTLY what your getting in to BEFORE you drop any more money into your car.(Hypothethically what happens IF you put a hole in a piston after the 12 grand plus blower install are you prepared.)[/quote]

    Hypothethically is about the only way you will put a hole in a piston with a paxton system. I don't know of any engine failures on a stock system that was installed by someone who knew what they were doing. Even if you were to blow a hole in a stock piston replacing them afterwards would be more cost effective than putting in new ones right at the start.
     
  10. 1BADGTS

    1BADGTS Enthusiast

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    Hypothethically is about the only way you will put a hole in a piston with a paxton system. I don't know of any engine failures on a stock system that was installed by someone who knew what they were doing. Even if you were to blow a hole in a stock piston replacing them afterwards would be more cost effective than putting in new ones right at the start.[/QUOTE]Accordingly should he proceed and something happen (on a stock install)iam sure you will pay for thev repair. Out of curosity just how much is it to replace a set of pistons in a VIPER after AN ISSUE HAPPENS(I would say the median price of a repair plus parts is an easy7-10 grand )
     
  11. 1BADGTS

    1BADGTS Enthusiast

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    If you check the NHRA rulebook (the person who started this thread wanted to be able to go to the track and run in the 10s without GETTING THROWN OUT )you need a min of 6-7 grand in NHRA saftey equiptment on top of the blower .Coming from experiance any Viper running deep into the 10s at any major NHRA Track is going to draw attention(on a public test and tune night you will usually be banned after a run or two ).Once again should he proceed and spend all of this money (on the blower ect) to find out he needs an APPROVED 10 second cage,battery shut off ,half shaft loops ,firev suit ect to run what then.
     
  12. 1BADGTS

    1BADGTS Enthusiast

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    Black Mamba instead of taking ANYONES word on whether you will be allowed to run at the track or not why not take a ride over to your HOME track and talk to the head tech inspect and hear it first hand .Make sure though you inform him that you plan on running approx mid 10s at 140 plus on a totally STOCK saftey equipted Viper.
     
  13. 2001 GTS

    2001 GTS Viper Owner

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    FWIW...I ran in the 10s at Rockingham and no one even raised an eye brow but to say "Damn!".
     
  14. 1BADGTS

    1BADGTS Enthusiast

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    Sometimes you get the bear sometimes the bear gets you. Anyone running 10s in a stock equipted Viper (ANY NHRA MAJOR TRACK )is going to get thrown out rather quickly esp in a vert (if you were to check the archives on this fact theres numerious threads devoted to the subject ).Low 11s SOMETIMES they will let go NO WAY 10S .(At Englishtown for example if the Napps ever caught ANY Tech inspector allowing 10 second passes stock configuration on a public test and tune night that inspecter would be fired immediately .Do you have any idea of the LIABILITY involved in allowing such a thing to a 50 million dollar or so racing facility )
     
  15. 2001 GTS

    2001 GTS Viper Owner

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    I guess the bear was sleeping:D.

    Black Mamba: Try out the MT ET Streets...they really make a decent driver look pro!:drive:
     
  16. Ray W

    Ray W Enthusiast

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    My point is 7-10k for internal upgrade components on a working engine that will handle 800hp is a waste of money. "If" you ruin the stock motor "then" do the upgrades. I think we already agree that more than 800hp is a waste on street tires.
     
  17. Twister

    Twister Viper Owner

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    I kept a log of my srt10 times...

    Im pretty sure my first couple runs were in the 12.9-13.2 range at 115-117 mph..

    then with the same exact car and lots of practice I got her to the 11.9 at 121 mph range...

    Ill look for my data...
     
  18. Twister

    Twister Viper Owner

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    OK..heres the data....as you can see it takes quite a few runs to figure this car out.....I as well had a 2004 vette with 380 rwhp that could run 12.8 at 110 mph every singe time through the auto...

    heres my data...


    You can see on my first outing trying to learn the car I sucked pretty badly..LOL

    24 Aug ( kn filters and roller rockers) 459/492 SAE

    1-12.7 @ 114
    2-12.4 @ 115
    3-12.4 @ 116
    4-12.5 @ 115.6
    5-12.4 @ 115

    Man this car SUCKS I thought...Littel did I no that I was shifting when that damn yellow arrow appeared and really to early at 5500 rpm's or so

    Tried shifting a lil later

    6-12.4 @ 117.9

    And then a lil later

    7-12.37 @ 119.0
    8-12.25 @ 119.3

    And then on my 9th and final run shifting right before red line I clicked off a

    9-12.08 @ 118.9 1.93 60 ft 7.9 @ 91.3 1/8
    0-60 mph in 4.13

    Very happy with the ET but dissapointed in the 119 max trapps I called it a night


    25 AUG ( KN filters and roller rockers) 459/492 SAE

    I baby shifted on these runs trying to see if I could hit 120 mph trapps

    10-12.77 @ 115.6
    11- 12.75 @ 118.1
    12-12.43 @ 120.2

    YEA BABY a 120 trapp..Not to shabby and I called it a night


    1 SEP ( kn filters and roller rockers) 459/492 SAE

    Tonight I wanted an 11 second pass and was all buisness


    13- 12.5 at 115.9 getting warmed up
    14- 12.4 @ 117.8
    15-12.26 @ 119.2
    16- 12.1 @ 120.5
    17- 11.97 @ 121.3 60 ft 1.97 7.9 @ 93.5 1/8 0-60=4.05 !!!!!!!!! HELL YEA
    18-12.1 @ 120.2
    19-12.1 @ 120.1
    20- 12.05 @ 122.2 ( highest mph yet)!!!!!!!!!!

    21- 12.08 @ 121.4

    Then I called it a night...

    28 SEP ( kn filters and roller rockers plus cat/muffler delete) ???rwhp???rwt

    22- 12.22 @ 119.6
    23- 12.13 @ 118.8
    24- 12.03 @ 120.6
    25- 11.95 @ 121.9
    26- 11.78 @ 124.0...0-60 in 3.98...1.95 60 ft....1/8 in 7.77 @ 95.3 mph
    27- 11.92 @ 121.7
    28- 11.92 @ 121.5
    __________________
     
  19. GR8_ASP

    GR8_ASP Enthusiast

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    In case you missed it I said to have fun on the street and road track. A track where you can go 1/4 mile acceleration runs several times every lap and actually try out the steering wheel and brake pedal. Life is not a drag strip alone. And a roll bar capable for the road track ran $500.
    And by the way if you read thoroughly you will find out that with the mods BM1 already has (he already has forged pistons) he should be in the 10's with drag radials alone. Guess you better tell him to spend all the money on the safety equipment. But better yet just buy a vette as they are a 10 second car right out of the box (per your hundreds of posts on the subject). Of course (that is the way you spell course) that would mean all of those quoted vette times were breaking those same 10 second rules you now dictate upon the community here.
     
  20. 1BADGTS

    1BADGTS Enthusiast

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    What does the above have to do with this thread.Mamba is INTERESTED IN DRAG RACING on official tracks and to do so you MUST FOLLOW the rules .What roll bar you speaking of ?To run in the 10s you need an approved CAGE (lOOK IT UP )Out of curosity (since you know so much about drag racing )could you name you accomplishments in your Viper.
     
  21. 1BADGTS

    1BADGTS Enthusiast

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    Ray any time anyone bolts on a forced induction kit to a Viper they are taking a risk (no matter who does the install )Dont get me wrong some guys have absolutely no trouble at all while others are afraid to put the car in boost because they HAVE had numerious issues in the past (these issues were expensive to fix )A friend of mine bought a nice 2004 SRT for low 40s and sent the car to a well known tuner for a stock Paxton install plus bigger intercooler ect (stock boost level )Buy the time he got done with paying for kit ,transportation ect hes now into the car for low 50s .After a few months job was done my friend got the car back and back and one week later went the head gasket (running it hard on a hot day )Tuner did the right thing covered the repair but not the transportation =another 1500 plus 2 months more time )Got the car back had it a month detonated, put a hole in a piston .This repair the tuner will not cover and its 10 grand plus .This guy has over 20 grand invested in this Paxton kit and hes afraid to drive the car hard because if it breaks he now throwing good money on top of bad to fix it.
     
  22. jamie furman

    jamie furman Enthusiast

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    Lots of good advice in this post, but leaving in second gear is not one of them! Don't ever leave in 2nd gear at a dragstrip if you want to drive your car home, because a couple of those and your clutch will be sitting at the starting line.
     
  23. Viper X

    Viper X VCA Member - South VCA Member

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    Agree,

    Use first gear to start out - never 2nd gear.

    Dan
     
  24. Snakester

    Snakester Enthusiast

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    I've done it before a few times, but I have 3.55 rear and I wasn't dumping the clutch. Just taking off easily and smoothly. You guys are driving at another level, going for some serious times. My point was for practice, and I actually think that that a mild start from second gear is easier on the drivetrain than excessive wheelhop is. But that's more the point of the worst of two evils (at least with 3.55 gears).
     
  25. kman

    kman Viper Owner

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    Sounds like dejavu with more ponies. My car has a few minor mods including 3:73 gears. I've gone 3 times to the track,1/4 mile twice,1/8 mile once and that sums up my drag experience. These cars take practice and basically your racing yourself. All the advice given including the dry burn outs with ps2's is right on. The people associated at these tracks(commerce and Hampton,Ga.)have been some of the friendliest and helpful people I've ever met, period. Everyone seems to be out to beat best personnel times or a rival,and of course there are some professionals and serious gear heads that have rocket ships with all the goodies designed specifically for the 1/4 mile. Take your time and beat your own times. Ease off with control if it gets hairy,no need to keep in it because you can line up and go again.To achieve these awsome times you will basically be pushing it right at the edge of breaking loose and it gets your attention in the 1/4 at high speeds,I can't imagine big hp cars breaking loose at 120 MPH. The safety techs and NHRA rules are looking out for your life,and this place needs the controversial black mamba's input. I haven't posted in a while,but this time it sounded so familiar. One more thing,I had to wear a helmet and no AC(no water on track),gets a little warm here in the south.
     
  26. black mamba1

    black mamba1 Viper Owner

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    When I lived in CT some of my friends tried to recruit me to join a motorcycle club. I hung out with them for a while and was impressed how the club had a relationship with the motorcycle shops in the area. Whenever someone bought a rice rocket they were told to contact a local club to learn how to ride safely and responsibly. These clubs saved many guys lives and prevented numerous crashes.

    Hopefully VCA is the equivalent for Viper owners. I consider my power still in the cream puff range, yet I had just about the most powerful car at the track that night...and I came close to a pretty serious crash. I have had my Viper for 3 years and I have been to many events. But prior to this post, no one has ever given me this kind of safety and performance advice on how to drive my car in the 1/4 mile. I have not had the fortune to go to any 1/4 mile clinics for Vipers. I think VCA should take a look at this. One guy in this post mentioned they had a clinic for Vipers doing the 1/4 mile. I think that is an excellent idea. Viper Tony can attest that my driving skills are above average in high speed driving...but nothing, I mean nothing prepared me for waht I experienced that night at the 1/4 mile track.

    I was cocky, unprepared, inexperienced, and it turned out to be a very dangerous combination in a 557 rwtq Viper. I wish all VCA clubs would do 1/4 mile track rentals and just teach us Viper guys new to 1/4 mile runs how to get our times low, speeds high, and keep our cars (and ourselves) in one piece! I will say all the advice you guys are providing in this post is invaluable. Some nights I just read these posts over and over until I have all the suggestions memorized. It makes no sense to have a Viper if one cannot drive it like it was built to be driven.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  27. black mamba1

    black mamba1 Viper Owner

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    Thanks for the great info Twister! It is seldom that guys put their sucky times up and your times give me a sense of where I really am and what I need to be doing. I really apppreciate this! You made some major improvement and got some really good times and good speed.

    Its hard to admit to sucky times. I mean, you go to a track in a Viper. All the kids, and all the crowd gather around to look at this monster of a car and think u are gonna run 9's or something just cause its a Viper! To run high 12's or even 13's is very embarassing and I bet many guys just go get a Paxton and never really master the 1/4 mile n/a. But with a little practice and a lot of humility, we can effectively represent Viper world at the track.
     
  28. black mamba1

    black mamba1 Viper Owner

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    Twister, did you have an problems with your car when doing so these back to back runs? Did you experience the car shutting off on you? Did you let it cool down between runs?
     
  29. 1BADGTS

    1BADGTS Enthusiast

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    Mamba personally i think your being too hard on yourself as at 550 or so to the tire remember there are only a handful of drivers out there that can drive a Viper to its potiental on stock tires (and those guys have thousands of runs under their belts in many different cars )
     
  30. black mamba1

    black mamba1 Viper Owner

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    True.

    I am going to Paxtonize or TT (when I get some $$) my Viper. But I am going to be a Viper owner for the rest of my days....and it is important to me to really learn how to drive this car to its limits. If I cannot get a 528 rwhp Viper to run in the 11's, I have no business fooling around with a 700 or 800 rwhp Viper; and I know how I am. If I almost bougtht the farm at the track in a 528 rwhp Viper...I will buy the entire plantation in a 750 rwhp Viper unless I learn how to manage the power. I am too cocky and I never turn down a race, from anyone damn near anywhere, and anytime. The advice offered in this post has probably saved me from having a very very bad day in the future.
     

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