to all 96-98 viper owners.....................READ PLEASE

[Achilles99]

OK, I think this thread is getting to the point where we are nit picking about the definition of "necessity."

True, these mods are not "necessary." If you drive the car at 70%, you may not have any problems. However, it is a FACT that MANY 96-98 GenII Vipers have had issues with the oil pan and overheating, and that these problems have been mitigated by changing the oil pan as well as fans. So, it's a matter of preventative maintenance. If you plan on driving your car hard around a corner (not necessarily on the track), is it really worth it to not make the changes? Sure, nothing may happen. But, what if it does? As for asking for "professional" advice... I don't think one dealer will tell you that they GUARANTEE that nothing will ever happen if you keep the stock fan and pan. In the end, it's your money that will pay for the repairs, and no one else...

Speaking from personal experience, overheating an engine on the track is no fun... I can only imagine that it would be just as annoying during "spirited" mountain runs...

 

[Viper Specialty]

ME taking it personal...? *** are you talking about? your the one who's getting all bent out of shape by something that has nothing to do with you or your car...? I just filled in the blanks because this thread is just that: a bunch of people jumping to conclusions about ONE SENTANCE out of a ONE HOUR conversation.

I mean, LOOK AT THE FIRST FOUR POSTS;

ViperBlue550 asking a simple question- and then YOU jumping to conclusions about him getting screwed!?!? give me a break man. Plain and simple: THEY ARE KNOWN PROBLEMS.

Arguing like this is freak'n pointless, as no one here besides myself or ViperBlue550 has any idea what the context of that sentace was. This thread answered the original question: YES, ALL THOSE PROBLEMS EXIST. Then it goes off on tangent about this person screwing this person... ugh.

 

[Viper Specialty]

ACHILLES99- THANK YOU FOR MAKING MY POINT!!!!

 

[venomblue550]

alright, how about everyone stop bitchin each one out here, i mean everyone on here got a viper, and we susposed to help each one out here, i mean it's very true of fix it now or fix it big later, i mean i wll get the tranny oil changed and upgrade to the bigger 99-up fan once i get the car out at spring, if that will fix all the overheating and tranny problems, then we are done here, we really don't gotta take out on each other, but thanks for all your guys input, i will talk to chuck tomorrow about changing oil and bigger fan upgrade, thanks again and all you have a nice holiday...

 

[venomblue550]

this is all my fault of starting this thread, to make everyone arguing all over each other, i really feel bad now, i don't even know what to say, but sorry again everyone..........

 

[cratica]

I've actually "heard" just the opposite, that some people who track their cars prefer the 96 oil pans because they have larger capacities and provide better cooling.

I've been around vipers for about 6 years now and have never heard of the fan issue before.

If I had a buck for everytime a mechanic told me something needed to be replaced when it really didn't I'd buy another viper.

Bottom line is, don't believe everything you hear, especially when money is involved.

 

[cratica]

I also don't think there is an overheating issue. I live in Austin Texas and have taken the car out in 100+ weather with AC blasting and stuck in traffic. The car has never overheated. I have the stock radiator.

I would recommend replacing the stock cats with hi-flow cats. This helps with the side sill heat. You can get them from Sean Roe for $300 or so and put them on yourself.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Not your fault Dan. Someone else over-emphasized the "need" for these upgrades.

In fact, they may be good suggestions for upgrades but by no means are they required.

 

[Gavin]

Wow - the brown stuff in this thread is getting deeper and deeper. Its the old story - a little bit of knowledge is dangerous.

Radiator- I have a Venom 500 - for a few more days at least and here is my experience- car never overheated, even in extremely slow moving traffic.

ADVICE - if you are going to put you car on the track you will overheat the motor eventually and then frequently after that.

SOLUTION - Fluidine radiator and triple fans HOWEVER, unless you cut a big hole the underside of the facia and install SEAN ROE's Air Dam Kit, the bigger radiator will net zero effect. To make it do its job you need the air dam kit. And don't think you can get by with the Air Dam Kit on the stock radiator - won't do the job. Another key part of the Fliudine radiator is its oil cooler - much larger and more efficient than stock. With current model available you do not need to cut the airbox.

8 QUART OIL PAN -The oil pickup is on the front of the motor - hard braking floods the oil pickup area so its not possible to starve the motor of oil under braking.

Oil starvation occurs under hard accelaration while at the same time the car is in a high speed, sustained turn.
SOLUTION
11 QUART OIL PAN AND BAFFLE KIT
ACR OIL FILTER MODULE
ACCU SUMP
WHO NEEDS TO DO THIS - ANYONE RUNNING TRACK EVENTS -and particularly anyone running race tires for sure and maybe a few of the really quick guys that run street tires. If you are running only on the street - leave it alone.

 

[venomblue550]

the car will be just for street driving, so oil pant job is out, but i would like to upgrade my fan, is there anyway i can just buy a 99-up fan and drop in my car?? will it fit?? and i will def change the tranny oil, tahnks

 

[C O D Y]

You might want to look in to that one. I think the 1996's take 8.5 quarts and the newer vipers take 10 quarts. I have never heard of anyone taking a 96 oil pan and putting it on a newer viper. However, I know of many that have made the upgrade to the larger pan on thier 96.

I've actually "heard" just the opposite, that some people who track their cars prefer the 96 oil pans because they have larger capacities and provide better cooling.

 

[C O D Y]

the car will be just for street driving, so oil pant job is out, but i would like to upgrade my fan, is there anyway i can just buy a 99-up fan and drop in my car?? will it fit??

Yes..... I did one and it was a simple bolt in. Very easy.

 

[venomblue550]

so in order to bolt in the newer style of fan, do i gotta remove the hood and stuff like that?? or i can just get to the fan really easy?? thanks

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Just remove the airbox and you'll be able to pull the fan and shroud out with plenty of room. Be carefull not to hit the fins on the radiator.

 

[Janni]

One must be careful when talking "96's" Gen II - meaning GTS - has an 8.5 qt oil pan. Upgrading to the 2000+ oil pan will get you the extra capacity that GEN I motots ALL had - 10 quarts. While you are at it - the gasket *** windage tray is better on the 2000+ oil pan. This is a good mod for 2 reasons - 1) more oil = better cooling and 2) if you are going to track your car, then baffle the larger pan for extra margin of safety.

My guess is that there are plenty of cars out there with BOTH the original fan and the original oil pan that are doing just fine.

These mods are UPGRADES - and simple ones at that - but are really not "required" unless you are trying to solve a particular problem or tracking your car.

As for the radiator issue- yes, bigger is better, but we tracked our cars for several years with the 2 upgrades above and NEVER had an issue with overheating, or even running hot. An immediate jump to a larger radiaitor may be hiding an different problem, as the cooling system in the car IS sufficient.

The fan upgrade is easy - you wil have to move one of the threaded studs to get all the holes to line up for the new fan, and then remove another on the bottom, but the worst part about it is the "quick disconnect" fitting for the electrical.

Enjoy your car - it's not a time bomb - and be wary of anyone that uses fear to get you to spend money....

 

[Brian E]

alldata will retrieve all the information regarding technical service bulletins and recalls relating to you your car. it gives the campaign number and the date it was issued. i pasted a copy of the 97 GTS data below. hope this helps.

Automotive Recalls and Technical Service Bulletins for 1997 Dodge Viper GTS V10-488 8.0L.
Provided by ALLDATA


Bulletins for 1997 Dodge Viper GTS V10-488 8.0L

Safety Recalls
TSB Number Issue Date TSB Title 998 MAY 02 Recall - Steering and Differential Frame Repair
712 APR 97 Recall - Passenger Air Bag Safety

Service Bulletins
TSB Number Issue Date TSB Title 18-019-03 MAY 03 Engine Controls - Spark Knock Using High Octane Fuel
18-008-03 MAR 03 Engine Controls - Co-Pilot Support/Cable Selection
24-009-02 OCT 02 A/C - System Leak Detection
08-025-01 NOV 01 Air Bag - On/Off Switches
08-010-01 MAY 01 Airbag/Clock Spring - Service
08-006-00A DEC 00 Wiring - Revised Splicing Procedure
23-008-00B NOV 00 Child Seat - Tether Anchor Part Numbers & Labor Time
08-11-00 MAR 00 CD Player - CD Compatibility
09-04-00 FEB 00 Engine - Replacement Break In Procedure
18-01-00 FEB 00 EVAP System - Leak Detection Pump Misdiagnosis
26-10-99I OCT 99 ABS - Kelsey Hayes EBC-5H, EBC 310 Test Revisions
23-35-99A OCT 99 Child Seat Tether Anchor - Labor/Parts Identification
08-23-99 JUL 99 Radio Communication Equipment - Recommendations
18-12-99 JUN 99 Leak Detection Pump - Monitor Test
26-03-99G MAR 99 Brakes - Teves Mark IVG and Mark 20 ABS Revisions
26-01-99D JAN 99 ABS/TCS - Diagnostic Test Revisions
08-17-98C DEC 98 Air Bag System - ON-OFF Switch Availibility
08-49-98 NOV 98 Electronic Entry Module - Fails To Respond
14-05-98 NOV 98 Fuel Tank - Removal Access
25-02-98 OCT 98 I/M Testing - OBDII CARB Readiness Monitor Information
18-32-98 SEP 98 PCM - Flash Programming Failure Recovery
26-08-98G AUG 98 Brakes - Bendix® Antilock 9 & 10 Diagnostics Revisions
08-36-98 JUL 98 Auto Computers - Y2K Effects
21-06-98 APR 98 M/T - Gear Noise Explanation
18-11-98 MAR 98 Engine - Rough/High Idle
26-01-98D JAN 98 Brakes - Kelsey Hayes ABS Manual Revisions
18-32-97 DEC 97 PCM - Erratic Rpm Drop/Perceived Misfire
26-12-97C DEC 97 Brakes - Bendix® ABX 4 ABS System Test Revisions
26-12-97F DEC 97 Brakes - Teves Mark IV/Teves Mark 20 ABS Revisions
09-08-97 NOV 97 Engine - Oil Pan Seepage
23-59-97 NOV 97 Rocker Panel - Corrosion
05-09-97 NOV 97 Front/Rear Brakes - Noise, Squeal, Moan, Chatter
23-58-97 NOV 97 Interior - Strong Resin Odor
26-08-97 AUG 97 Brakes - Kelsey-Hayes ABS System Diagnostic Revisions
22-01-97 JUN 97 Tire & Wheel - Runout
08-14-97A JUN 97 Battery - Premature Failure
26-06-97M JUN 97 Engine - Oil Capacity Revision
14-02-97 MAY 97 Engine - Lack of Wide Open Performance
09-05-97 MAY 97 Flywheel - Lifter Noise After Removal/Installation
07-03-97 MAY 97 Engine - Coolant Recommendations
090397 APR 97 Dipstick & Tube - Service Applications
08-09-97 FEB 97 Air Bag - Warning Label Requirements
23-03-97 FEB 97 Black Plastic Body Components - Chalky Residue
23-75-96 DEC 96 Windshield - Difficult Urethane Primer Removal
236996 NOV 96 Paint - Fallout Damage Repair
050996 OCT 96 Brakes - Noise Explanation

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

the worst part about it is the "quick disconnect" fitting for the electrical.

Boy, aint that the truth. Why can't there be ONE standard electrical fitting? I swear there are engineers trying to come up with as many different designs as they can. Bastages. What's wrong with just screwing the fittings together?

 

[venomblue550]

so what type of tranny oil should i upgrade to at spring time?? by upgrade the tranny oil, will the shifter be harder to shift?? and where can i buy this new oil from??

 

[JonB]

THE YEAR MATTERS. This is long.......

Adam's Gen 1 motor/fan does NOT "need" the larger fan, but WOULD BENEFIT from it! The 96.5 - 98.7 GTS and RT/10 used an ill-conceived small, offset fan, with plastic panels to help baffle the air and make the small fan "pull" more air in traffic. The result: Overheating motors and HOT-HOT fan relays! Open the smaller relay box next to the battrey post underhood. Look at the "FAN RELAY" sticker above the 96.5- 98.7 relay. Is it MELTING? Discolored? BINGO! Worst case the RELAY MELTS and damages the EXPENSIVE HARNESS!! BIG BUCKS....

There was a TSB on this fan, and my strong advise is SWAP FANS NOW if you have 96.6 - 98.7 Gen 2 motor Viper. (Not Adam) Waiting til after there is an out-of-warranty issue is crazy. [The complete unit is 'Under $160' in stocsk from PartsRack, Thanks] It takes 45-60 minutes and is 'almost' a direct bolt-in 96.5+. Gen 1 needs a special connector. ($10 in stock also)

HOWEVER: "Grailkeeper" Herb Helbig HizSelf even "RECOMMENDED" swapping out the GEN 1 FANS IF-IF-IF you have an overheat or climate induced situation. Published in Viper Quarterly.
--------------------
[ FACT: the 1st 100 or so 96 GTSs were TURNED AROUND TO THE FACTORY STILL IN THEIR RELIABLE TRUCKS for the oil starvation and hose blowoff that was discovered by some dummy pace car guy in early-early units. Dodge sent 2 engineers to PIR when the car was a week old! ]

A couple years ago we were discussing HERE the upcoming Viper Days event at a CA track I think was Buttonwillow. 20+ novices were seeking advise here. I WARNED the owners of 96.5-99 "Small Pan" Vipers to perform 1 - 3 NECESSARY UPGRADE STAGES before tracking their cars:

1) Larger Pan/better windage Tray/better gasket. Flows more, holds 1.4Qts more.
2) Trap-Door baffles heeps oil above the pickup. [ AutoCross and Drags can use!]
3) ACR Filter Adapt. w/shuttle-valve delete = better oilpressure and oil cooling

I advised (predicted?) that #3,#2, #1 RODS were launching in alarming numbers in hard-tracked cars, especially on SLICKS where G-forces can exceed design oil flow and cause starvation. IT IS A FACT, not a rumor. TWO 97-98 CARS BLEW THEIR MOTORS (#3 and #2 rod) AT THAT EVENT.....and we sold 10-12 pan kits immediately AFTER that event, including a couple to those 2 WARRANTY REPLACED MOTORS! "Pay Now Or Pay Later" applies here if you track/XC/Drag your 96.5 - 99 oil STARVED motor. It is not SCARE it is FACT. ASK VEWC-ARROW if you dont believe me.....some cynics always shoot the messanger, so I dont post here as often as the old days..........

Radiator? Maybe. Dont swap radiators, but swap the fan for sure. Then if still hot, BURP-BURP-BURP and then consider T-stat and radiator last.
---------------------------

The DextronIII of early Viper trannys was probably a bad choice. Synthetic tranny oil became the norm, and a TSB suggests a move to this in normal sequence of miles. It also helped reduce NGR in 96-98 Vipers "plagued" with this annoying (to many) trait. Dodge even made a poke-fun video of mad scientists trying tu cure NGR and blowing themselves up in the process....
Ahhhh, the "GOOD OLD DAYS OF VCA".................

 

[JonB]

.....if there are really all those problems with our 96-98 vipers, he told me he can get me the radiator and fan upgrade for around $1k

"Under $800" from PartsRack for both, but DONT buy the radiator yet. Get the fan. They were on national back order til 2 weeks ago, now back in stock.

 

[plumcrazy]

this is a ridiculous thread.

 

[Achilles99]

this is a ridiculous thread.

Why? I think it's been overall pretty helpful... in fact, it's almost making me rethink my decision to sell my 00 RT10 for a blue/white GTS...

 

[JonB]

this is a ridiculous thread.

Phil! Buddy! Really? Janni said it best: "Not a Time Bomb, enjoy your car"
(as you obviuously are!) But this is a very important discourse for 96.5-99 owners like you! Information is Power, and in this case protecting your power!

And when 'someone' says these facts are BS, or dont apply 96.5 - 99, those who are non-believers could pay a hefty price for ignoring it....

There was even a HUGE uproar in 1999 ACR models, announced and advertised to have a better pan that DID NOT COME with the car as promised and advertised (paid for?) This was tantamount to an admission that help was needed in this area...as does the ACR-Filter adapter. "Racing Improves The Breed"

Reminds me of SRT-10 '04s stating a soft tonneau on the Monroni, but not on the car !

 

[JonB]

I've actually "heard" just the opposite, that some people who track their cars prefer the 96 oil pans because they have larger capacities and provide better cooling. I've been around vipers for about 6 years now and have never heard of the fan issue before..... Bottom line is, don't believe everything you hear, especially when money is involved.

The post above is PROOF that bad advise exists. The poster heard bad advise. The post above is OPPOSITE of the facts and the truth of this 96,5-99 issue, and DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR applies here as well!

96 GTS pans were the WORST ever put in a Viper. Minor improivements occured as an RDC in 96, but unfortunately did not take a huge leap forward til M.Y. 2000.

Note to good friend Adam: I bet you a free set of brake pads that Doug strongly recommends swapping your radiator and fan on DAY ONE ! Absolute NECESSITY for your beast!

 

[cratica]

I think it's interesting that those of us who have the cars DON'T have any problems and the only ones you see saying this is a problem are the two people who are trying to SELL something.

Just an observation.

 

[cratica]

And the quote is valid advice because I have a 96 with the larger capacity oil pan (RT).

 

[cratica]

The original poster said he didn't want to track the car. So, by ALL accounts, these "mods" aren't necessary.

If you ARE tracking a car, then there are a ton of people out there who will try and sell you "necessary" mods to improve track performance, many of which are valid. And yes, there are a zillion ways to improve any stock car for racing on a track and many of these are necessary.

But again, for the original poster and for the 99% of us who don't track their cars, these "necessary mods" just aren't neccessary.

 

[Achilles99]

And the quote is valid advice because I have a 96 with the larger capacity oil pan (RT).

Which quote are you saying is valid? The one that said 96's have a better, larger pan?

Is the larger pan that came with some 96's the same as the ones that came on later year Vipers? What exactly are the differences in each year's pan?

The quote saying that some people prefer 96 pans because they are larger implies that later years have a smaller plan... which I don't think is true.

JonB, can you verify?

 

[cratica]

The 96 RT has the larger pan because it is a gen I engine.

 

[BADVENOM]

Hey Jon,

Actually I am replacing the radiator with doug already so you win!

Adam