Tranny ..I was wishing for F1 Paddel Style Shifter

[2003 Viper]

I love the fact that if someone wants an auto they cant have it. But I'm sure in time the Viper/ZR1/ZO6 will offer them. Reminds me of the guy at work that got a new Mustang and I asked if it was a stick. He looked at me and said "why would I want a manual tranny"?

 

[supersnake]

REAL MEN SHIFT THERE OWN GEARS, No Paddles for me

 

[SlayerLS1]

I'd be ok with a paddle shifted viper. I wouldn't WANT one, but why not have the option?

I would enjoy having one when I'm old. No, that's not a knock on them - I just have a bad left ankle and I'm sure eventually it will detract from my driving fun.

 

[C.Hermsen]

I love automatics...in huge luxury daily driver sedans. A sports car should have a proper manual IMO.

Hold up... have you ever driven a proper dual-clutch paddle-shifted gearbox? The word "automatic" should never be uttered in the same discussion with one. The technology is completely different as are the performance capabilities of the two. The dual-clutch trans is far superior in every single aspect and performance measurement. Same goes for comparing to to a standard manual other than the fact that you're not rowing the gears and working the clutch. For some, myself included, executing a proper heel-toe downshift is pure automotive fun. However, performance wise, the twin-clutch setup wins every actual performance comparison and it is nothing like an "automatic" in the traditional sense

http://mechanicalmania.blogspot.com/2011/07/dual-clutch-transmisson.html

You can give it whatever fancy names you want...if it automatically shifts gears without me manually having to....it's an automatic. I get that they're faster at the track, but that doesn't make up for the lack of driving experience.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Right, while we're at it, ditch the power windows, power brakes, ABS, power steering, AC and radio. Hell I think having overhead valves are too fancy shmancy, I say go back to a flat head and side valves. While we're at it, what's the deal with this fuel injection? Scrap that pussified electronic gizmo and give us a good old carburetor, maybe two of them....hey how about a 6 pack like the 60's, yeah that's the ticket. Disc brakes....TOSS EM!!! Go back to drum brakes like a "real man".

You don't know the difference between an apple and an orange.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

This. Come on...paddle shifters...are you freakin' kidding me! Paddle shifters are for women that don't know what the hell they're doing in a sports car.

PADDLE SHIFTERS? The more I think about it, the more my blood boils...have you ever driven a Dodge Viper? The sound of the engine, engaging the clutch, mastering shifting the gears, breaking free the rear tires on occasion...that's what a Dodge Viper is...where's Chuck when you need him...I believe the word is pussification.

The pussification of America is alive and well Ken. I'm just glad none of it is my fault.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Dual clutch automatic systems transmit torque seamlessly when changing gears, and do not distract the driver from his driving duties under extreme driving conditions. Elimination on hundreds or thousands of shifts in competion frees the drivers right hand and left foot for other duties in the heat of battle.

Technology can eliminate all those other duties as well. F1 was going that direction until they found out they could put a 2-year-old in the driver's seat and he'd win the championship.

I'd like a golf club I didn't have to swing to get a hole-in-one. I mean, there are just too many things to think about to make the perfect swing. I'd rather just focus on tee'ing the ball the right height and pointing towards the hole. I'd be the best golfer in the world. Golfing wouldn't be as much fun but I could go around telling people I'm the best golfer in the world. Why wouldn't anybody want that?

 

[I Bin Therbefor]

What I would really like is to have the trans moved to the rear ala the race car.

 

[BCBowers]

You can give it whatever fancy names you want...if it automatically shifts gears without me manually having to....it's an automatic. I get that they're faster at the track, but that doesn't make up for the lack of driving experience.

You would think so until you drive one. I drove a few of the Porsche 997s with the PDK setup and it's fantastic. I'm also a driving instructor for NASA (not the space folks ) and have gotten to do a few laps in students' cars with them and they are truly exhilarating to drive on track, but in their own way. I guess if your idea of performance driving is cruising to a car show or running down the 1/4 mile you might see them as "automatics".

What I would really like is to have the trans moved to the rear ala the race car.

A la Corvette. However, the Viper is already rear weight biased due to the long nose and far rearward seating position of the driver. No real need.

 

[viper067]

I have no problem with the option ... For me though, if there is no left foot action, there is no reason to change gears. Don't think I could drive a paddle car.

 

[GTSnake]

SRT tried to offer an auto/manual but they couldn't find one that could hold up to the torque of the V10 within a reasonable price point.

 

[aries]

You don't know the difference between an apple and an orange.

Obviously you don't. A SMG or "paddle shift" gearbox is the next evolution of the manual gearbox. Look at F1, Indy they had manual gearboxes back in the day and now have "paddle shifters". Just like manual brakes went to power brakes, manual steering went to power steering and now manual gearbox goes to "paddle shift". Were you upset that cars went from crank start to electric start?

 

[Paul Hawker]

Manual is more fun, Dual Clutch automated manual is faster.

Nothing to worry about here, everybody gets to make their own personal choice.

 

[V10lover]

Manual is more fun, Dual Clutch automated manual is faster.

Nothing to worry about here, everybody gets to make their own personal choice.

Agree with you, absolutely nothing to worry about at all..

Some folks get mad for no reason.

So if the car had the otions below offered by srt everyone would be happy:

1) Manual transmission is standard in every car

2)**OPTIONAL** Upgrade for paddle shifter transmission. Adds $6000 to your selected viper package.


This way, people can choose which option they want and everybodys happy, lol.


Let the magazines test the cars later so we can see which one is faster...

I would bet on the paddle shifters anytime, anywhere...

 

[troublemaker]

I get what you're saying...but where do we draw the line? Offer a 4 cylinder Viper to appeal to the economic crowd, an AWD viper to appeal to people in snowy climates, a lifted 4WD viper for rednecks? Just because it might appeal to more people doesn't mean they should do it. I love automatics...in huge luxury daily driver sedans. A sports car should have a proper manual IMO.

I hope my rambling wasn't taken as I would like to see the basic concept of the Viper neutered. Some have already commented about the time saved on shifts with a high tech slush box, if that makes it faster around a track like the Ring with who knows how many shifts, go for it. A record is a record, some say the street ability of the ACR is questionable, but it still has the fastest lap, no matter what it took to get there. I'm not saying to offer a watered down model, but options that can sell more cars without sacrificing performance or the driving experience should be available. Just because the option is there doesn't mean it needs to be ordered. Let's face it, a car only survives if it sells enough cars to be profitable.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Obviously you don't. A SMG or "paddle shift" gearbox is the next evolution of the manual gearbox. Look at F1, Indy they had manual gearboxes back in the day and now have "paddle shifters". Just like manual brakes went to power brakes, manual steering went to power steering and now manual gearbox goes to "paddle shift". Were you upset that cars went from crank start to electric start?

No, and I wasn't upset when F1 eliminated ABS, TC, launch, engine braking and adopted a standard ECU. Now go back to pomology class and don't reply until you've learned the difference.

 

[aries]

No, and I wasn't upset when F1 eliminated ABS, TC, launch, engine braking and adopted a standard ECU. Now go back to pomology class and don't reply until you've learned the difference.

I'll "go back to class" as soon as pull your head out of your a*s. Go back to living in the days of drum brakes, carbs and manual steering since you're such a "tough guy". I assume you have no ac or any of those ***** stuff in YOUR car, right macho man. Jeeze what a ******.

 

[Vypr Phil]

I really do not understand this Neanderthal type obsession with early 20th Century technology.

As Ralph Gilles said with a smile about cruise control during the reveal: Get over yourselves!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I'll "go back to class" as soon as pull your head out of your a*s. Go back to living in the days of drum brakes, carbs and manual steering since you're such a "tough guy". I assume you have no ac or any of those ***** stuff in YOUR car, right macho man. Jeeze what a ******.

I really do not understand this Neanderthal type obsession with early 20th Century technology.

As Ralph Gilles said with a smile about cruise control during the reveal: Get over yourselves!

Ok, I'll repeat this and I'm sorry if you all feel owned but there is no other way to convey it...

F1 eliminated ABS, TC, launch, engine braking and adopted a standard ECU.

Now, let's revisit what we've learned...

F1 eliminated ABS, TC, launch, engine braking and adopted a standard ECU.

One more time to make sure it sinks in...

F1 eliminated ABS, TC, launch, engine braking and adopted a standard ECU.

Now, if that's neanderthal or macho or tough guy then so be it. But as far as being a ******, sometimes when people just don't get it, being a ****** is the only way to be.

 

[stranger355]

Your "general amenities" were most likley looked at as you look at the current technology like paddle shifters when they were introduced. It kills me to read so many people agaist stuff that would improve the performance of the car and refer to stuff like "nannies". Well I'm sure back in the day when power steering and power brakes were introduced, there were people stuck in the past that called them nannies. I think Dana Carvey sums it up best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N2E93VzQSA

Joe wins, but I'll add....if you really want the old stuff then keep you older car or go buy a Shelby cobra repica. Those are all legitimate options. (or as Jay-Z said in On to the Next One, "...you want my old sh*t, buy my old album"). The Viper became popular as a "retro" car, which is clearly isn't anymore....that is a loss for some people. Personally, I didn't buy mine for the "retro" feel I bought it because it's the most insane performance package you can get. If you don't want all of the nannies then you'll have to buy from small boutique manufacturers as all major companies REQUIRE these things. It would be silly to have just the legal stuff and not just go all the way and provide buyers with all of the modern performance technology. Again, I recognize that the Viper lost it's "retro" roots, but that's because it became something much more than a novelty. It became a street and racing legend. All it was missing now was some of the "technology." What else would you expect from a brand called, "SRT".

 

[C.Hermsen]

I hope my rambling wasn't taken as I would like to see the basic concept of the Viper neutered.

Not at all, an I'm not even opposed to a F1 style OPTION...I'm just pointing out that the argument of selling more cars isn't really a valid one. There's plenty of ways they could sell more cars, like offering an entry level V6, but should they do that? IMO that would make the Viper just another Corvette. I get that Dodge is looking to get into a broader demographic with the G5, but I guess that's what has me disappointed, I guess I'd rather see the Viper name gone than become another John Everyman Corvette wannabe.

 

[C.Hermsen]

You would think so until you drive one. I drove a few of the Porsche 997s with the PDK setup and it's fantastic. I'm also a driving instructor for NASA (not the space folks ) and have gotten to do a few laps in students' cars with them and they are truly exhilarating to drive on track, but in their own way. I guess if your idea of performance driving is cruising to a car show or running down the 1/4 mile you might see them as "automatics".

I guess that's where we'll disagree. I have driven them. I don't like them. I guess we have different meanings for the word "manual".

 

[Vypr Phil]

Ok, I'll repeat this and I'm sorry if you all feel owned but there is no other way to convey it...

F1 eliminated ABS, TC, launch, engine braking and adopted a standard ECU.

Now, let's revisit what we've learned...

F1 eliminated ABS, TC, launch, engine braking and adopted a standard ECU.

One more time to make sure it sinks in...

F1 eliminated ABS, TC, launch, engine braking and adopted a standard ECU.

Now, if that's neanderthal or macho or tough guy then so be it. But as far as being a ******, sometimes when people just don't get it, being a ****** is the only way to be.

Holy $h!t Chuck, this was close; I almost gave a f@ck!

You drive around in a 15 year old “Classic”. You seem to despise modern technology in a Viper and in all likelihood have already decided you will never own a Gen V. I am fine with that Chuck, to each their own!

Now let me tell you a little about me: in a few weeks I will go in for reconstructive foot surgery due to a worsening congenital deformation. I have been walking with a cane for the last two years; I need the cane for stability and balance. This condition has become so bad that at times it is nearly impossible to walk.

My foot, ankle and leg will be in a cast for 4 months. Once the cast is removed, I will have to relearn how to walk and go through rehab, a process which will last 6 to 8 months according to my podiatrist.

I for one am glad that there will be a Viper I can buy and drive once this process is over, no matter how successful the outcome of my surgery will be. Hopefully the 7-speed dual clutch transmission will be available in a year or so and maybe even a convertible by then too.

 

[fastmd]

According to the logic some of you are using, F1 drivers, our own ALMS team, INDY drivers, and many other pro race car drivers are not real drivers, because they use F1 type transmissions

Think about what you saying....

 

[aries]

Ok, I'll repeat this and I'm sorry if you all feel owned but there is no other way to convey it...

F1 eliminated ABS, TC, launch, engine braking and adopted a standard ECU.

Now, let's revisit what we've learned...

F1 eliminated ABS, TC, launch, engine braking and adopted a standard ECU.

One more time to make sure it sinks in...

F1 eliminated ABS, TC, launch, engine braking and adopted a standard ECU.

Now, if that's neanderthal or macho or tough guy then so be it. But as far as being a ******, sometimes when people just don't get it, being a ****** is the only way to be.

No need to increase the size of your letters for me chuck, I can see just fine. However, your eye sight or reading comprehension may need some help. Where did I say anything about TC, launch control, ect in F1? The discussion was about "paddle shift" gearboxes. Go back and look at my post, "Look at F1, Indy they had manual gearboxes back in the day and now have "paddle shifters" is what I said.

 

[AZTVR]

The arguments against putting leading edge technology into a new model Viper do sound to me exactly like a really right wing Amish mentality. "Thou shalt not incorporate technology developed after 1993!" However, anyone can go out and buy a virtually new Viper of any model year. There are plenty that have been preserved for us. If you want that technology, it is readily available.

I think that the main reason to Amishtisize the Viper is to try to discourage a certain type of person from buying the car, and keep it as a very low production car on into the future.

That is one part of why I like the car. It feels good to be in a pretty exclusive group.

I don't care about paddle shifting at all; but, I would like to have a sequential gearbox at a "reasonable" price. But, that's only because I hate my T56 transmission, and my heel-toe skills ****. Just need to practice.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

No need to increase the size of your letters for me chuck, I can see just fine. However, your eye sight or reading comprehension may need some help. Where did I say anything about TC, launch control, ect in F1? The discussion was about "paddle shift" gearboxes. Go back and look at my post, "Look at F1, Indy they had manual gearboxes back in the day and now have "paddle shifters" is what I said.

Get your writing skills from NBC or maybe you just THINK you "can see just fine?"

Yes, you mentioned F1 and paddle shifters. You also said this...

Right, while we're at it, ditch the power windows, power brakes, ABS, power steering, AC and radio. Hell I think having overhead valves are too fancy shmancy, I say go back to a flat head and side valves. While we're at it, what's the deal with this fuel injection? Scrap that pussified electronic gizmo and give us a good old carburetor, maybe two of them....hey how about a 6 pack like the 60's, yeah that's the ticket. Disc brakes....TOSS EM!!! Go back to drum brakes like a "real man".

and this...

Your "general amenities" were most likley looked at as you look at the current technology like paddle shifters when they were introduced. It kills me to read so many people agaist stuff that would improve the performance of the car and refer to stuff like "nannies". Well I'm sure back in the day when power steering and power brakes were introduced, there were people stuck in the past that called them nannies. I think Dana Carvey sums it up best:

Now, I know you don't know the difference between fuel injection and traction control but the first is performance tech, the latter is nannie tech and YOU brought it up. And incidentally government mandated nannie tech crap which should have every American - especially car people, **********. But don't buy a 2013, wait until 2014 when they come equiped with government mandated backup cameras. Oh joy. Just what I want on a sports car.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

You drive around in a 15 year old “Classic”. You seem to despise modern technology in a Viper and in all likelihood have already decided you will never own a Gen V. I am fine with that Chuck, to each their own!

Now let me tell you a little about me: in a few weeks I will go in for reconstructive foot surgery due to a worsening congenital deformation. I have been walking with a cane for the last two years; I need the cane for stability and balance. This condition has become so bad that at times it is nearly impossible to walk.

My foot, ankle and leg will be in a cast for 4 months. Once the cast is removed, I will have to relearn how to walk and go through rehab, a process which will last 6 to 8 months according to my podiatrist.

I for one am glad that there will be a Viper I can buy and drive once this process is over, no matter how successful the outcome of my surgery will be. Hopefully the 7-speed dual clutch transmission will be available in a year or so and maybe even a convertible by then too.

Phil, it's a moot point. Without any fight at all you guys got what the government shoved down your throats and you'll get your paddles most certainly. I actually predicted this 12 years ago on this very board. The same thing happened in 1972 and it drove auto enthusiasm to dismal levels for 20 years until it somewhat recovered in 1992.

You are correct, I most likely will never own a GenIII/IV/V. Dodge/SRT did a great job building them but I don't want the nannies on my sports cars. Maybe someday SRT will build a Viper called the FU-gov. Talk about making headlines!

Sorry about your worsening condition. Not to be a wise guy, but soon virtually every car will suit your wants and needs, and none of them will suit mine. Life is tough ain't it?

 

[balance]

For many buyers it would change "gotta have it" into absolutely must have it.

 

[aries]

Get your writing skills from NBC or maybe you just THINK you "can see just fine?"

Yes, you mentioned F1 and paddle shifters. You also said this...


and this...



Now, I know you don't know the difference between fuel injection and traction control but the first is performance tech, the latter is nannie tech and YOU brought it up. And incidentally government mandated nannie tech crap which should have every American - especially car people, **********. But don't buy a 2013, wait until 2014 when they come equiped with government mandated backup cameras. Oh joy. Just what I want on a sports car.

Chuck it's amazing that someone as thick skulled and ignorant as you has managed to live this long without killing yourself. Go ahead and read that post I wrote over and over until it sinks in. Where in post was I talking about F1? I was simply talking about all the "advancements" that have made it into the Viper that make life easier for the driver. In another post is where I mentioned F1 and Indy cars in regards to the "paddle shift" gearbox. I guess you get your reading or editing skills from Alan Grayson or the Huffington Post.