Viper Fraud ! What legal action can one take ? Need Help!

Vipuronr

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Okay, just read that the seller offered to give back the money minus shipping.

TAKE THE DEAL, EAT THE LOSS AND CHALK IT UP TO POOR JUDGEMENT!:crazy2:

Don't ask for the shipping money, as the dealer might re-consider and you'll be back where you were before.

Lucky!:headbang:
Peter
 

bluesrt

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Okay, just read that the seller offered to give back the money minus shipping.

TAKE THE DEAL, EAT THE LOSS AND CHALK IT UP TO POOR JUDGEMENT!:crazy2:

Don't ask for the shipping money, as the dealer might re-consider and you'll be back where you were before.

Lucky!:headbang:
Peter

work that **** over after u cash his check for the car,then work him over for the shipping:)
 
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viperrt96

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Update: No refund yet but the seller has agreed to buy it back. The Ebay ad is no longer listed ? Imagine that. Back when I first saw the car I had told the owner that the car had too many things out of place. He calls the guy after what i showed him (most was obvious) and he at first said pretty much too bad. There's nothing wrong with it. My friend (owner) then gave me permission to pull the front bumper and side sills. I have some 35 pics but for now I'll post just a couple
 
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viperrt96

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Sorry the pics are too big

Here's the link

[media]http://www.indyhpmedia.com/pics/Pet%20Sn8k/100_0275.JPG[/media]

The side sills themselves weren't in that bad of shape. They've been replaced obviously as the exhaust on both sides are just beat to hell

[media]http://www.indyhpmedia.com/pics/Pet%20Sn8k/100_0276.JPG[/media]


[media]http://www.indyhpmedia.com/pics/Pet%20Sn8k/100_0278.JPG[/media]

Check out that great repair work on the core support.

Again I'll post more pics but for now you get the idea
 
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xlrashn

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Post some more of the pics. I for one always like to know more about areas to look at. This is all good info. It is a shame such a bad situation brought it to light, but still good info.
 
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viperrt96

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You might want to wait until your buddy gets his cleared check before you raise to much of a stink with this seller.

I'm not trying to raise any stink with the seller thus why I haven't named anyone involved in this transaction. I won't either. The pics I'll post will be limited to the damaged areas. Hopefully it can educate others and let the truth be known about this car. He didn't get this car that cheap so this car will most certainly be put back out there for someone else to be a victim of. As in this case not everyone that owns/wants a Viper visits sites like this one.

This car would fool many if you didn't know what you're looking at. I've worked on them so I know more than most. He said himself if he didn't know me he would have been somewhat satisfied with the car. I'm just calling it what it is
 
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It won't fool me, other than my very first car, and I'm old now, late 40's, I've never bought a used car since, but I have bought several from out of state dealers without first seeing the car and those have been the best experiences of my car buying life.

Please make sure when your buddy gets paid, and is through, you let us know the specific car so someone here doesn't get taken.
 

bluesrt

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i cant believe how many people buy cars without seeing them in person,pictures do no justace on how nice a car is,it can be a piece of xxxx and look great in a picture.buy a viper from a respected dealer or dealers on this forum and be done with it.what they say the car is,u can allways know it will be,there are at least 3 viper dealers that can allways get u what ur lookin for if u are a patient buyer,and the best part about the whole thing is when it shows up at your house,its exactly what they said it was!:)
 
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Two cars I have bought, sight unseen, from out of state dealers and one of them was my Viper.
I was bidding for it on Ebay, didn't meet the reserve, luckily the dealer contacted me and we negotiated a strong deal.

Now I was lucky enough to have fellow VCA member Marv H. see my brand new Viper at the Dodge dealership before I bought it, furthermore he had bought like fifteen vehicles at this dealership and raved about them. He was a class act (thank you again Marv) and so was the dealership and my salesman. Great experience.

My brother in Michigan saw my wife's vette for me before I bought it, and knew the dealership owner and GM and both car buying experiences were the best I've ever had buying a new car.

Would I do it in the blind, probably not without strong referrals and references.

Having access to loyal VCA members is without a doubt the way to go, before doing something foolish.
 

Chrissss

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To that end, and I'm sorry didn't read all the posts in detail, I would contact the Better Business Bureau in that city - you can use them to pressure the dealer and may intervene as it looks to clearly be fraud/misrepresentation. With what I read in the other posts, I find it really hard to believe that a car expert (usually used car buyers for dealers are), didn't know the history of the car and therefore misrepresented.

Second, on that same note, I would call the Attorneys General Office for that city and file a formal complaint against the dealer. Many of the Lawyers at these offices will assist you as fraud is clearly in their area of responsibility.

It's my understanding the seller is going to give your money back and that is great. It would have been a long road to haul.

1. You could have filed a BBB complaint but they have no enforcement powers whatsoever so the most that would happen is that the business would have an "unresolved" complaint on their BBB record for others to see. It wouldn't have gotten you anything back, aka, waste of time.

2. You could have, still can, referred it to the state' AG office for fraud. First they would have referred you to the BBB. Secondly it is very very difficult, and it has to be proved, not just what they "should have know", to prove outright fraud when a dealer sells a car. Pretty much takes documentation to show the dealer knew of one condition and they sold at another. It then would take the AG's office months to react as usually they have a large case load with a small or even one person handling it. Aka, waste of time.

3. You could have gotten an attorney to file a civil suit against the dealership. No attorney would take this on contingent, so you would have to pay all the expenses and fees up front. If you were willing to do that, and even got a civil judgment against the dealership, good luck in actually getting the money. Once again there is little recourse, other than filing a lien, for enforcement of a civil judgment. O.J. can tell you all about that. Aka, waste of time.

While these avenues could be tools, especially as threats, they usually offer very little if any relief. Bad advertisement usually is very effective. I had a old friend who almost got ripped off the same way by a dealership. He came to me for help and we went over the options. He then went and took out an ad in the local paper outlining what happened. He got a call from the dealership and they wanted to work it out pronto. They got the car back and he got his money back.

The point is when you are buying a used car, do all you homework, see the car in person, drive it and have it independently checked out. I found my Viper through autotrader but drove to see it three times, three hours each way. I checked it over, drove it and had it checked out by a mechanic of my choice. Then I bought it. The law is very murky in determination of a "condition" of a car being sold as used by a dealership. What they consider being in good condition may not be. In most states, a dealership is NOT required to mechanically determine the condition of a used car it is selling. Most dealerships do but even then their determination may be very different than your own. When buying a used car, unless you can prove open, outright fraud, it is "buyer beware". It is up to you to make sure the car is what you need it to be, not what the dealership says it is.

This comes from a long and extensive experience.
 
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viperrt96

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Just a small observation by some of the replies here and I might be taking some of it out on context but my reason for posting this here was not to point out the flaws of buying a car sight unseen.

Vipers sell everyday on Ebay. Vipers are cars just like anything else.

Yes my friend would have benefited greatly if he had been a VCA member and had someone with some Viper Knowledge check this car out for him. It would have saved him the trouble but Like my original post said he chose a dealer and not an individual. He's a businessman himself and figured the transaction was more secure by going with a dealer. The car doesn't look bad in person and is a Low mileage Viper that for the most part checks out by a Carfax report. At least he had no reason to question the Carfax report that he got. Anyway he didn't get it that cheap so this is not a case of buy low and this is what you get. The dealer seems to be working with him so maybe this was a case of someone hoping to pull one over on someone. I think it would have easily fooled many.
 
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