Why is the V10 considered a "Big Block"?

[Mopar426]

Why is the V10 considered a \"Big Block\"?

I ask this because I'm somewhat baffled. For those who do not know a "TRUE" BB is based on it's bore and configuration. The V10 has somehwat small pistons (Take a look at a 426 Hemi of a Big Block Chevy if you doubt me) compared to traditional big blocks. Did Dodge do it as a "Marketing Ploy" or am I missing something? I read the V10 is based off the 360ci small block so this would confirm that is's a LARGE small block rather than a True BB.

No flame intended it's an impressive motor none the less just curious on the subject.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

Semantics

 

[Makara]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

I thought that big block/small block was because of the size of the block, not the pistons. The C6 ZO6 is a small block though it is a 427.

 

[ViperRay]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

I agree with Makara.
The pistons (bores) tended to be larger in the BB's because the block was large enough to make the bores bigger without encroaching on one another. All the big displacement engines in those days were in Big Blocks.

Today's technology has allowed larger and larger bores in traditionally small blocks.

The new ZO6's larger bores are such that the steel liners are actually touching one another... no more block left between them!
That's what happens when you put large bores in "small" blocks.
I hope they're strong!

 

[ViperRay]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

PS... I'm not aware that there was ever a specific size that differentiated a small and large block.
I believe many of the large blocks were derived from trucks though.

 

[KenH]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a \"Big Block\"?

Did Dodge do it as a "Marketing Ploy" or am I missing something?

Show me any reference where Dodge refers to the Viper engine as a "Big Block".

 

[AviP]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a \"Big Block\"?

Did Dodge do it as a "Marketing Ploy" or am I missing something?

Show me any reference where Dodge refers to the Viper engine as a "Big Block".

I have to agree with KenH. I've never seen that reference either. And the big block/small block nomenclature always confused me too since I figured out over time that it didn't refer to displacement. I guess it's irrelevant anyway.

 

[Mopar426]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a \"Big Block\"?

Did Dodge do it as a "Marketing Ploy" or am I missing something?

Show me any reference where Dodge refers to the Viper engine as a "Big Block".

Maybe the comment was made by a car magazine not sure, but I do remember reading it.

 

[Mopar426]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

PS... I'm not aware that there was ever a specific size that differentiated a small and large block.
I believe many of the large blocks were derived from trucks though.

There isn't not "set" cubic inches for instace a 400ci Chevy is a Small block while a 396ci is a Big Block, I'm speaking in terms of factory built. To make things interesting there is no **** thing as a Pontiac "Big Block Or Small Block". The 400ci Poncho and the 455ci Poncho share the same block.

 

[agentf1]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

I have always wondered the same thing????

 

[gallaugher]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

the pistons of a dodge viper are huge. they are not small whatsoever. the bore of the 488 is 4 inches, the bore of the 505 is 4.03 inches. compare to a murcielago at 3.43 inches and an enzo at 3.60 inches, the viper has serious pistons. from my view, jackhammers.

now the 426 hemi -- also a chrysler engine -- does have a larger bore than the viper's 488 and 505. the 426 hemi bore is 4.25 inches. but that certainly does not make a viper piston small. one is giagantic, the other is giagantic plus a quarter inch. however, the viper's stroke is longer than the hemi's, so when it comes to moving air through the engine, the viper is superior.

the terms big block and small block have nothing to do with pistons nor displacement. it was just the size of the big old block that was needed to keep the engine together back in the day. nowadays our engines are fully cast aluminum by the italians, so we do not need a big heavy block. the terms big block and small block are basically of the past.

if the viper is classified as a big block, than that is not good. the only thing that matters is displacement. aluminum blocks are strong and far lighter. more power to less weight.

the new z06 has a bore of 4.13 inches and stroke of 4 inches. so ultimately it has larger holes than ours. but since we have two more, we win in terms of displacement.

 

[Fast Freddy]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

take 2 cylinders away from the 488 CI V-10 engine that resides in my viper and you have a 390 CI V-8. chevy made big blocks back in the 60's that were 396 CI.

the srt-10 has even more displacement than a gen-2 viper so the vipers V-10 engine is a modern day big block if you will.

now chevy's new C-6 Z06 is technically a small block and those 427 cubes are large. chevy's 427 is the biggest factory small block engine ever offered in a production car.

 

[Fast Freddy]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

the 330 CI engine that resides in my ford lightning is one way stroked factory engine. the bore is a mere 3.55 inches while the stroke is the same as a 426 hemi at 4.15 inches. throw a blower on top of that and you have the ford lightning. drive one and you will get a whole new perspective on torque relative to the small displacement. the lightning engine hits you in the back hard. so hard in fact that when i launched at the drag strip on slicks a few years ago i busted the lumbar support in my seat.
i aint no fatty either ( i weigh 200 lbs)

500 rwtq + 4800 lbs race weight = 1.70 sixty foot time.

 

[gallaugher]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

the viper engine is not a big block or small block. those terms were for old cast-iron engines, like the 427, 454, and 426 hemi. the viper has a cast-alluminum alloy block. just because it displaces 488 or 505 cubic inches of air after all ten cylinders complete one full cycle, has nothing to do with the size of the block.

i can buy a block of iron the size of an aircraft carrier. than drill one hole in it exactly the size of a q-tip. the block is big, but the engine only displaces a squirrel's fart of air.

displacement is not a measurement of block size. displacement is a measurement of the amount of air an engine moves after all cylinders complete one cycle.

a viper's engine has a displacement of either 488 or 505 cubic inches. this does not mean that the block is 488 cubic inches. this means that after all ten cylinders complete one cycle, 488 or 505 cubic inches of air is moved.

nowadays who cares how big the block is. the smaller the better. because smaller is lighter. cast aluminum blocks with cast iron liners allow for larger cylinder holes, spaced closer together. more displacement, less block.

 

[Anaconda]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

500 rwtq + 4800 lbs race weight = 1.70 sixty foot time.

4800 pounds???? ***????????????

 

[hemibeep]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

"the viper's stroke is longer than the hemi's, so when it comes to moving air through the engine, the viper is superior."

What the he!! does this mean?
A motor is an air pump. Take off the viper heads and flow them. take off a hemi head a flow it. Gallaugher, you are barking up the wrong tree on this pal.

Also never thought of viper as big block.
For mopar 60's 70's
"A or LA" engine small block
"B or RB" big block.
"Hemi" its own block, using different motor mounts, but sharing displacement.

Seems like a no answer post as every brand has sizes that don't fit into a catagory.

 

[Mr Hemi Head]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

the term "small block" was used in a Cheby radio ad recently. This caught me by surprise, they must be appealing to the gear head. The average consumer may think they are getting a overworked lawnmower engine. LOL

 

[Fast Freddy]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

500 rwtq + 4800 lbs race weight = 1.70 sixty foot time.

4800 pounds???? ***????????????

the ford lightning is a 1/2 ton pickup truck that weighs in at 4,800 lbs with me in the truck on the scales at my local dragstrip.

 

[Fast Freddy]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

"the viper's stroke is longer than the hemi's, so when it comes to moving air through the engine, the viper is superior."

What the he!! does this mean?
A motor is an air pump. Take off the viper heads and flow them. take off a hemi head a flow it. Gallaugher, you are barking up the wrong tree on this pal.

Also never thought of viper as big block.
For mopar 60's 70's
"A or LA" engine small block
"B or RB" big block.
"Hemi" its own block, using different motor mounts, but sharing displacement.

Seems like a no answer post as every brand has sizes that don't fit into a catagory.

not sure who here is saying that vipers stroke is longer than the hemis. but this statement is in fact way wrong. the gen-2 viper engine has a 3.88 stroke and a 4.00 inch bore

 

[Fast Freddy]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

the ford lightning engine is a factory stroker engine. the new ford GT has the same bore and stroke dimensions as a ford lightning. the lightnings ohc heads have 2 valves per cylinder and the ford GT has 4 valves per cylinder. this is part of the reason why the GT has a higher redline and a more peaked power curve relative to the lightning. all these high performance motors that chevy, dodge and ford have been making are trick motors. they just go about in different ways. personally, my lightning engine gives me the best buzz as far as engines go

ford lighting = OHC V-8 stroker engine with a supercharger.

 

[gallaugher]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

the viper has a stroke of 3.88 inches. the 426 hemi has a stroke of 3.75 inches. the viper engine has a longer stroke by 0.13 inches.

but the hemi does have a larger bore equal to 4.25 inches. and the viper has a smaller bore equal to 4 inches. but because the viper has a longer stroke -- in addition to two more cylinders -- the viper 'pumps' or 'displaces' more air than the 426.

as for the block, the 426 probably does have a bigger block because it is old cast-iron. engineers needed more of a block back then in order to space the cylinder holes far apart enough, so the block would not crack. but these days high-performance engines are made of cast-aluminum alloy with cast-iron liners. and cylinders are spaced closer together. but the holes are bigger. so a smaller block can achieve more displacement.

 

[Cop Magnet]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

Back in the day, manufacturers made two common block sizes. One was for a range of smaller displacement engines, and one for larger. Hence the small Fords were 260-289-302's. The big Fords were 390-428-460's. Chebby had the same getup. As motors were added, like the taller 351, they replaced the smaller motors and the naming system was expanded to fit them in (even though they were not the same "block" at all).

Two common sizes of blocks, small and big, with a range of possible displacements that could overlap a lot if you wanted. Displacement was limited by the overall block size and the technology of each displacement's "era". So the big blocks could naturally go higher in displacement than the small blocks.

Other motors, like the 427 SOHC, did not technically fall into either category. However, the name "big block" may have been used anyway because of the displacement. The Viper motor is probably thought of by some in this way. Does it really matter at all? I don't see how. No one's going to confuse a 360 with a V-10 Viper motor.

 

[Anaconda]

Re: Why is the V10 considered a

500 rwtq + 4800 lbs race weight = 1.70 sixty foot time.

4800 pounds???? ***????????????

the ford lightning is a 1/2 ton pickup truck that weighs in at 4,800 lbs with me in the truck on the scales at my local dragstrip.

Okay, I saw the Viper in your sig at 495 RWTQ, and thought you were just rounding it an even 500.