mobile 1 or royal purple?

Steve 00RT/10

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Steve, uhhh... 4-Ball Testing of competitors? Sorry, just had to.


(Sorry, lots of inside jokes going on here. )

Ya but ....they seem to do quite well in the other established comparative tests ;) They can't all be slight of hand. I believe you even called my oil sample more 'robust' than a Mobil 1 sample which had far fewer and no hard miles........many years ago now. I took that as an 'oil compliment'

Steve
 

Tom F&L GoR

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It wasn't that long ago that some diesels (marine, I think) consumed oil at such a rapid rate that you never changed it. You only added. And this was normal.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Ya but ....they seem to do quite well in the other established comparative tests ;) They can't all be slight of hand. I believe you even called my oil sample more 'robust' than a Mobil 1 sample which had far fewer and no hard miles........many years ago now. I took that as an 'oil compliment'

Steve

Of course I'm pulling your leg. It is the point of the Royal Purple *** decision - if you have a really good oil (which they might) you still have to have a consistently credible marketing presentation. Sometimes I think marketing guys parachute in from another planet.
 

adg44

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Save your money, get some 5 quart jugs of Valvoline 10w30 from walmart and do an oil/filter change for under $50. Change it every 3k and enjoy.

I did this at 3k miles, and when I pass 6k miles sometime this summer I will be getting the oil analyzed so you can all see that Mobil1 isn't God's gift to engines.

Also, I'll be in Vegas tomorrow for a convention that week and I'm going to get some time with Castrol so I can discuss their new motor oil. It seems promising, so I'll be interested to see if it lives up the hype.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Castrol, the people that started the Group III (mineral oil) = synthetic oil marketing campaign, that ran engines out of oil on dynos for a TV ad, that were challenged (and lost) about the goofy TV ads that dropped sludge on cars and people...

Wear your boots.
 

handyman_321

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So should we be using group 4 and 5 oils only??? and what are examples of group 4 and 5 oils over here in north america.. I'm in Canada...

Someone just reccommended Motul group 4 and 5 oils... what are these like???
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Group III=highly refined mineral oils that technically match "synthetic" base oils and are marketed as "synthetics."
Group IV= polyalpha olefins, the original and classic synthetic base oil
Group V= all others, which includes the large family of esters

The answer to your question is "no."

Soapbox: looking for types of base oils is like choosing between types of bottled water. They all flow and are clean. While water is essential, the vitamins and supplements provide the long term benefits. Looking for the "additives" is important!

Less expensive synthetics will be using Group III. Mobil has historically used Group IV, although I hear now in not all their M1 products? Motul uses a large percentage of Group V and some oils will use small amounts of Group V blended with Group IV.

A 5W-xx is a 5W-xx no matter what the base oil. A xxW-40 is a xxW-40 no matter what. Because of the higher viscosity index, formulating a 5W-40 with synthetics is feasible, doing so with a mineral oil is really not.

The additives provide the wear protection and cleanliness, the base oils do not. Arguments that there is a "shortfall" in some base oil performance feature are countered by taking care of them with additives.

Exotic and expensive base oils like esters can claim they are more attracted to metal surfaces and therefore provide a form of friction or wear benefit that other base oils don't. In the real world this is hard to quantify because to be accurate, the "test" engine has to have been in a situation where the danger was imminent, the situation has to be repeated with different base oils, and the situation has to have a better result with the ester vs. the other oils. I am sure that someone will say their engine survived something with esters and failed with others... hopefully if the engine failed there were many changes made to avoid the problem, not just an oil change.

Directionally a lower "W" number is always good because the oil flows faster and takes less HP to circulate. The second number needs to be sufficient to provide enough bearing film thickness when in a hydrodynamic situation. The more round the bearing and journal, the thinner the oil can be - new HEMI engines use a 5W20, Vipers were recommended to use 10W30. Perhaps a xxW-40 is more than sufficient and probably a xxW-50 is more than needed.

More additives are better. My broken record is since diesel engines have long drains, run 85% load for almost all day, and are very well tested, that oils with diesel performance are strong. So at the end of the day, you can conclude that a 15W40 (mineral) or 5W40 (synthetic) diesel oil, or a 5W40 or 0W40 gasoline engine oil with ACEA European performance (because that includes diesel claims since many passenger cars in Europe are diesels) are all very good choices.
 

VIPER GTSR 91

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I still keep seeing C. Shelby on Speed TV endorseing ZMAX and how he puts it in all his cars. I read here recently where there was a law suit about the false claims of ZMAX VS. Shelby ads. Guess it did not hold up as he is still claiming its the greatest stuff. Tom, whats your knowledge on ZMAX oil additive and thoughts?
 

Tom F&L GoR

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I try to be specific when naming brands and don't have much info to say about Zmax. However, in general, these claims vs. legal issues drag out and appear to be successful because the data generated to support the claims is usually difficult to correlate directly with automotive engines and so the judgment is both over how applicable the tests used are, and then whether the product provides those benefits. And frankly, these ads rely on celebrity endorsements, are 99% testimonial and 1% factual. Just need someone like me to help structure the technical claims to sound good without really saying anything. ;)

That said, I've read often (being an ex-Cobra replica owner) that Mr. Shelby does what he can to support organ transplant charities, being a multiple recipient himself. He's also ornery enough that I think he'd do something that is perhaps "on the edge," because at his age and condition, he knows he won't be around to see the conclusion. And I mean that in a mostly good way.
 

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