Buying Gen 3 with 8 prior owners?

[OldRaysputin]

Hi everyone! First, let me just say I’m super excited to join this forum and pumped because I’m planning on moving forward with my first viper purchase, being a longtime dream. I’m about to have a PPI done on the vehicle which is a 2003 with 23,000 miles and all stock for around $54k. The owner has been entirely professional, sending requested pictures and cold start videos etc.

My one concern is the ownership history at eight prior owners, most of which in the last 10 years. There also is not a very good trail of Maintenance records for me to follow other than knowing this current owner is himself a viper enthusiast and mechanic.

With the relatively low mileage, and if the PPI checks out, would this cause hesitation for anyone here? Especially if I needed to sell it myself in a number of years?

Thanks for any thoughts or advice you can offer!

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[BoondocSaint]

I'd trust the PPI if it's done by a reputable mechanic. I wouldn't get overly worked up by the owner history. These cars change hands regularly by people looking to dip their toes in the water only to find they don't like the temperature. As far as resale goes, overall condition, miles, and price will be of more consequence than number of owners IMHO.

 

[daveg]

^^^^^ I agree, get a GOOD PPI from someone who knows what they are doing.
I am just curious why 8 people didn't like this car. OR was it that there were allot of issues with it and there will be a 10th owner soon?
Check it out carefully and make sure there was no title scrubbing.
The more owners, the more a car could be potentially be tampered with.

 

[OldRaysputin]

^^^^^ I agree, get a GOOD PPI from someone who knows what they are doing.
I am just curious why 8 people didn't like this car. OR was it that there were allot of issues with it and there will be a 10th owner soon?
Check it out carefully and make sure there was no title scrubbing.
The more owners, the more a car could be potentially be tampered with.

Thanks to you both. I’m getting a PPI done by a guy that specializes in exotic cars (couldn’t find anyone just specific to vipers willing to make the trip) in southern California and I’m having him drive in quite a distance to do it. I’m pulling a list of all additional GEN 3 related concerns.

It seems like it had a few quick change of hands, but nothing less than a few years. The most recent owner has had it for four years. So maybe it’s nothing but definitely investing in the more expensive and thorough PPI.

 

[daveg]

Good luck and hope everything works out.

 

[Steve-Indy]

I would be concerned about this situation. While I have not researched this particular market of late, there are bound to be a number of 2003's out there with fewer owners...thereby reducing the overall risk of surprises. The price also seems high to me. Keep in mind that you need to have an extra $6,000.00 to $10,000.00 available in case there are any surprises.

 

[OldRaysputin]

I would be concerned about this situation. While I have not researched this particular market of late, there are bound to be a number of 2003's out there with fewer owners...thereby reducing the overall risk of surprises. The price also seems high to me. Keep in mind that you need to have an extra $6,000.00 to $10,000.00 available in case there are any surprises.

Thanks Steve! It’s validating to know that my concerns are not completely unfounded.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Now, that said...if a person such as Dan Cragin were to do the PPI on that Viper and subsequently told me that it was a solid car, I would buy it sight unseen. I say that because I really mean it. That is the value of a Tech with a wealth or Viper experience who is well respected...as he was there at the beginning and has worked on all levels of Vipers...
from stock and modded-for-the-street to casual track cars to full race prepping.
To ME, it is better to invest money in the PPI as opposed to chasing the variety of problems often missed by us casual observers.

Good luck in your quest !!

 

[OldRaysputin]

Now, that said...if a person such as Dan Cragin were to do the PPI on that Viper and subsequently told me that it was a solid car, I would buy it sight unseen. I say that because I really mean it. That is the value of a Tech with a wealth or Viper experience who is well respected...as he was there at the beginning and has worked on all levels of Vipers...
from stock and modded-for-the-street to casual track cars to full race prepping.
To ME, it is better to invest money in the PPI as opposed to chasing the variety of problems often missed by us casual observers.

Good luck in your quest !!

Thank you! I’ve heard phenomenal things about Dan (literally from people across the country) but I also heard he was retired and wasn’t doing those anymore. The quest continues!

 

[AmosHarrison]

I think this car is more the norm. Buyers buy the dream but find actually driving the are can get old fast. My wife can't handle the exhaust sound that I love. It's a car designed for the track and become tiresome in daily driving. That's how you get so many owners and so low miles. Mine had 7 prior owners in less than 20,000 miles

 

[Tightchevelle69]

Price does seem a little high for current market. But the number of owners doesnt matter much. I have a lemon title 2003 with 49k and 7 or 8 previous owners, the last two were the same person when he transferred it to his llc. As others have said, these cars tend to change hands a fair bit. I did not have a poi done as he was local and I went to personally check it out. I missed a few things but nothing major and since it was a lemon title I knew it wouldn’t be perfect. But whatever it was lemoned for was/is not evident to me and it had about 43k miles since it was lemoned in California in 2005. That being said, I would prefer a clean title car but would not weigh much in number of owners. If you look at a lot of cars on BAT you will see high end cars a couple years old with several owners.

 

[redtanrt10]

$54k is high for an 8 owner ‘03. Take a look at BAT G3 sales in the past 6 month’s. I think you can do better on price and find a more documented G3 if you look further

Also ‘03’s have some odd motor features that were revised in ‘04

Good luck either way!!

 

[Steve-Indy]

And 04's have the infamous downsized harmonic damper bolt (along with possibly a few early 05's) that was prone to backing out !!

 

[efnfast]

That many owners is obviously suspicious, but not not necessarily indicative of a problem - my Z06 traded hands like 7 or 8 times within a 3 year period before I bought it. I've had that car now for almost 20 years and it's never given me 1 issue.

Vipers are awesome, but at the same time a pain in the ass, so I could definately see people tiring of it quickly if they arn't a car guy (or are a *****).

You don't need a super specialized Viper mechanic - they're pretty basic - just have them look at the suspension for abuse and do a leakdown/compression. If the engine passes and the tranny shifts good and you don't hear any noises from the rear, it's probably fine.

 

[OldRaysputin]

That many owners is obviously suspicious, but not not necessarily indicative of a problem - my Z06 traded hands like 7 or 8 times within a 3 year period before I bought it. I've had that car now for almost 20 years and it's never given me 1 issue.

Vipers are awesome, but at the same time a pain in the ass, so I could definately see people tiring of it quickly if they arn't a car guy (or are a *****).

You don't need a super specialized Viper mechanic - they're pretty basic - just have them look at the suspension for abuse and do a leakdown/compression. If the engine passes and the tranny shifts good and you don't hear any noises from the rear, it's probably fine.

This guy seems to know what he’s doing and he is willing to make the drive 90 miles to do the check which I appreciate.

Funny, you mentioned a Z06 because it’s exactly what I was also considering before I found this Viper. It was an 02 with 22k miles but they too are getting more expensive lately as they wanted $34k. Only 3 owners and tons of maintenance records though.

 

[MoparMap]

A lot of it also just comes down to how comfortable you are with working on cars. I'll tackle just about any repair job other than body work (unless I can just bolt a new panel on). Granted, that doesn't mean that parts aren't still expensive and would make the "final" purchase price effectively more, but I'm willing to put in my own time to fix stuff, which is where a lot of the cost in repairing these cars is. The factory service manual is pretty amazing, frankly, and does a great job of walking you through most jobs. I've had the entire dash structure out of my car before when I was diagnosing an HVAC issue and will have to do it again when I finally replace the box. It's definitely involved, but not really all that hard to do as it's just hardware to remove and connectors to unplug. As others have said, these cars are still fairly basic by modern standards, so it's not terrible to do the work yourself if you can.

 

[Damn Yankee]

Some very good advice above, I can only add my opinion to others, but perhaps more forcefully, ready? Absolutely do not buy that car.

 

[OldRaysputin]

Thanks everyone! I passed on this vehicle and will pursue another.