Automatic Viper

Anthony - 98 GTS

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TNT here in Houston just did an auto car. I think it ran a 10.3 in the 1/4 mile on just motor.

The auto tranny is definitely fast getting down the track.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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I saw one at the Englishtown event about a month ago. The guy was running the AX course, but I never caught up with him to look or ask about it. Check with the NJ club folks, they should have his name?
 
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anthony - 98 GTS:
TNT here in Houston just did an auto car. I think it ran a 10.3 in the 1/4 mile on just motor.

The auto tranny is definitely fast getting down the track.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hennessey has also done an AT.
 

Joseph Houss

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Gary Dan, our NJ member, has an auto in his RT/10. He's good for a consistant 12.4 - 12.6 1/4 mile time.

He's constantly improving the unit, and it was installed with the help of Chris Barone, and additional trans specialists.
 
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WESTCOAST JASON

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thanks for the info, I will be looking into it. Going with the Axis TT S2 kit I believe it to be the best at keeping the spool up on the twins. I would assume that everyone who has seen one has seen it with the Dodge V10 auto? thanks

Jason
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slaughterj

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What's up with this autosnake thing? There seems to be this fascination out there, and expectations of better #s than the manual ones (my perception based on previous threads) - why is that? In all test #s for all other vehicles I have ever seen (e.g., mustang, etc.), the manual ones are always faster than the automatic ones, so what's the deal with this and the viper?
 
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WESTCOAST JASON

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I am not interested in a purpose built street/drag car as my Viper is my daily driver. I just love making my daily driver faster in a reliable manner. (aka Axis TT kit) As far as the Auto, that is due to the above, I spend a lot of time in traffic and since 97 when I went full time daily Viper I have thought of an Auto. Performance : An auto tranny usually does show less RWHP on the dyno and they also usually run quicker in the quarter. Thanks again for all the tips on who has done it so far. I am looking into all the avenues now.

Jason
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pauls

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Auto Viper is absolutely going to be faster in the quarter. The best driver wastes 3 or 4 tenths shifting gears. Plus preloading the driveline will stop the broken parts associated with a stick.
But, you gotta cut the car with any conversion I'm aware of. It would also hamper the roadcourse ability dramatically. Give and take. I'd have one in right now if you didn't have to cut up the tunnel.
 

Sniper

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Jason-I don't know if they can build one from scratch? If I were you, I'd call them to find out. They won't do you wrong!
 

kverges

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Call me crazy, but unless you have a physical impairment that makes an auto a necessity, putting a slushbox in a sports car is a crime against nature. No wonder Dodge thinks we want a soft car - some of us do. Might as well put a solid rear axle, too, while you are at it. And while drag racing is fun, ruining the sports aspect of the Viper to make it go faster in a straight line is not my thing.

Now if we could get a SMG like the new BMW M3, then . . . .

Want an auto? Get a Vette.
 

Gerald

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If an automatic makes a car faster in a straight line, why is it a sin to install an automatic in a sports car?

I think a triptonic or automatic stick would be the ticket...
smile.gif


Gerald
 

pauls

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As long as the transmission is a T6. There is no such thing as a good drag pass for any driver. SVS put a Doug Nash NASCAR trans in a customer car, that would work but you still have the fragile drveline An auto would help the breakage.

Oh yeh, roadracers, the second place car in the One Lap was and automatic Big Block Corvette. I think that had to run on roadcourses? I
 

jp

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A prepped Auto is way faster then a stock manual transmission (min 5 tenth). If you put in a Jerico or so you will also be faster then the stock trans.
/JP

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by slaughterj:
What's up with this autosnake thing? There seems to be this fascination out there, and expectations of better #s than the manual ones (my perception based on previous threads) - why is that? In all test #s for all other vehicles I have ever seen (e.g., mustang, etc.), the manual ones are always faster than the automatic ones, so what's the deal with this and the viper?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

kverges

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With the same engine in both an anutomaitic and manual car, I would be shocked to see an automatic faster than a standard transmission, even on a drag strip. The numbers on the "tiptronic" automatic in the 911 are slower than the 6- speed, same is true of the Corvette. Torque converters just plain use up power and are less efficient (notice how large coolers are required for any heavy duty automatic trans vehicle?).

Now when the power gets huge and grip/breakage with slicks gets into the equation, then I believe an auto has advantages on a drag strip, since you can use engine inertia to help launch and the torque converter keeps the engine it is powerband very well.

If a traditional automatic with a torque converter were fast on a road course, I would expect to see them in F1 and on down the chain, and I have never seen an automaitic road race car except for physically challenged drivers who need to use hand controls.

But if drag racing is your goal and you are going to seriously modify the car, I don't get butchering a Viper. Go get a rail dragster with a BBC and low weight and run 7s for about what it would cost to modify the Viper and then you have both a Viper that can still go around corners (something no drag car can do when set up to drag) and a separate drag car that will **** the doors off of any Viper.

But the again I am not that into drag racing, so what do I know?
 

Tom Welch

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Kverges,

You might as well get prepared to be shocked.

One cannot compare the performance of a stock vehicle with an auto transmission with the same car using a manual transmission.
Take the corvette as an example..the auto version of the vette comes with a 2.73 gear ratio while the stick version comes with a 3.42 gear ratio which is much quicker accelerating. Not a good way to compare the two transmissions.

A good automatic transmission with the correct torque convertor, and correct rear gear ratio will OUTRUN the manual transmission car every time.

Gear selection is the primary reason why standard transmissions are used in roadcourse cars. Also the standard transmission has less drivetrain loss becasue it does not use fluid pressure to transfer torque to the rear wheels. The negative of the stick transmission is the clutch and time loss during gear changes. There is NO competitive stickshift transmission where drag racing is concerned. The LENCO transmissions are all clutchless and are more or less shifted like manual automatics once the vehicle is moving.

Most of your modern F1 and road cars use paddle type shifters and are clutchless or use electronic or pnuematic shifting to help reduce shifting time or they would not be competitive.

Take a ride out to the local drag strip one night and count the automatic cars in relation to the stick cars(forgeting about the hondas and mazdas). You will be suprised..shocked even.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

P.S. If anyone reading this wants to help me develop an automatic transmission for the Viper, please give me a call. I would love to get involved with that and have (2) Vipers as prospective guinea pigs.
 

jp

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Tom , there is some folks in your large country racing Stock with an Automatic converted GTS! The Stockers are chocked about the time slips! Try to get in contact with them!!?
/JP


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Welch:
Kverges,

You might as well get prepared to be shocked.

One cannot compare the performance of a stock vehicle with an auto transmission with the same car using a manual transmission.
Take the corvette as an example..the auto version of the vette comes with a 2.73 gear ratio while the stick version comes with a 3.42 gear ratio which is much quicker accelerating. Not a good way to compare the two transmissions.

A good automatic transmission with the correct torque convertor, and correct rear gear ratio will OUTRUN the manual transmission car every time.

Gear selection is the primary reason why standard transmissions are used in roadcourse cars. Also the standard transmission has less drivetrain loss becasue it does not use fluid pressure to transfer torque to the rear wheels. The negative of the stick transmission is the clutch and time loss during gear changes. There is NO competitive stickshift transmission where drag racing is concerned. The LENCO transmissions are all clutchless and are more or less shifted like manual automatics once the vehicle is moving.

Most of your modern F1 and road cars use paddle type shifters and are clutchless or use electronic or pnuematic shifting to help reduce shifting time or they would not be competitive.

Take a ride out to the local drag strip one night and count the automatic cars in relation to the stick cars(forgeting about the hondas and mazdas). You will be suprised..shocked even.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

P.S. If anyone reading this wants to help me develop an automatic transmission for the Viper, please give me a call. I would love to get involved with that and have (2) Vipers as prospective guinea pigs.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

slaughterj

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Welch:
A good automatic transmission with the correct torque convertor, and correct rear gear ratio will OUTRUN the manual transmission car every time.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you're saying that it's because of gear ratios that all the cars I've ever seen #s for run slower as automatics? From Mustangs to Accords, etc.? All these cars use different gear ratios for automatics than from manuals?
 

Tom Welch

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Gearing plays a major role in a cars performance. Typical stick shift transmissions have more gears to choose from and enable the rear end gears to be more aggressive in order to move the mass of the vehicle. An indy car has a stickshift and can run laps at 240 mph but has to be pushed to get it started..because of gearing. Please don't make this simple topic more than it has to be.

A race type automatic transmission with a "loose" torque convertor that is built based upon the cars weight, hp, torgue, and cam specs will outperform a stick shift transmission in a car of the same weight and rear end gearing. No man walking the planet can outshift an automatic transmission with a stickshift.

As for accords and mustangs..they come standard with stickshift transmissions because of cost, but thats not the point of my conversation.

Tom
 

kverges

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Tom,

I think we agree. Your auto-equipped drag car will be optimized with a non-stock gear ratio, non-stock stall speed converter, and I am willing to bet some kind of sticky tire, right? Do nothing but use the same rear end ratio in two cars, one auto and one stick, and true street tires and normal horsepower levels for the car (e.g. no big power adders, etc). I still think the stick will beat the auto when driven right. The auto will be more consistent.

I also thought the Lenco was a manual, which I mean to say has no torque converter. A manual with dog rings instead of synchros can be shifted pretty quickly, but probably not as fast as an automatic.

Then you have a car that needs 2000 rpm or more just to get underway in a parking lot and will need a trans oil cooler to drive on the street.

I also judge drag strip performance in part on trap speed, which I know is not true drag racer mentality. A car that runs 11s at 105 mph will beat me to the end of the 1/4 mile, but that's the end of it. The same car will be so floppy and loose that it will be a genuine danger to drive anywhere but in a straight line. I'll take my 12s at 125 thank you very much.

But vive la difference. I am very impressed by the skill it takes to consistently launch well and drive a car down the 1/4 mile with big horsepoer and wrinkle-wall slicks. I have tried it and am not that good. Me, with a day at the track, I like getting an hour or two at speed doing all the things a car can do, accelerating, turning and stopping, instead of maybe a minute or two blasting down the 1/4. I still like the occasional outing to the drag strip, but for me it is more of a social and gawk-fest, as the absolut fastest ET I have personally ever driven was something like 11.80, which is a big yawn for the serious drag racer. I just wishh the drag guys would come out to the road course wom time so I could get some revenge (SW of Austin excluded, who is very gifted in any venue and always trounces me).
 

toddt

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by slaughterj:
All these cars use different gear ratios for automatics than from manuals?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely. I cannot think of a single exception to that rule.

The Autos have 4 speeds, the manuals have 5-6.

This = taller rear on auto.
 
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WESTCOAST JASON

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We all need to remember that an Auto in a Viper is more than just a performance upgrade (or downgrade in some opinions) - my car will see much more street driving than race track and that is a major consideration in a tranny. Traffic in a Viper *****. Period. With an Auto it would be much less stressful.

My .02

Jason www.speedstuff.com
IMACDC on eBay (Viper parts for sale right now...)
 
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