Automobile Magazine preliminary numbers on SRT/10

[kverges]

I sure hope some hapless granny was driving.

0-60 4.4 sec
1/4 mile 12.3 @ 115 mph

It was a development mule, but all I can say is:

WEAK, WEAK, WEAK!

Please let this be an anomoly!

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

I don't think Team Viper would let it out the doors if that was the full potential of the car.

 

[Russ M]

As I stated before.

More power means more wheel spin, and not necessarily faster times. I am sure that with an experienced viper driver the times will drop considerably.

 

[toddt]

The 0-60 and the et doesn't surprise me at all.

Probably doesn't surprise anyone here who runs fast in vipers. (not that I'm one!)

It's all in the launch. You get a viper for one day after driving around your LS430 for a year, and you're probably gonna hack the launch all day.

The 115 makes me suspect that the run was at Willow. If the car really IS running 500HP, I expected something closer to 119-120. That doesn't have as much to do with a bad launch, and a 4.4 0-60 indicates the launch wasn't horrible, just non-optimal, right?

Very interesting numbers, though. Thanks for the post!!

 

[Daffy]

I would think these numbers are just plain off, considering the preliminary target perf numbers we've been hearing, 0-100 in 10 secs, 0-100-0 in under 13.2 secs, 0-60 in under 4 secs. Considering those targets, I don't see anyway DC would accept those "real" perf numbers. I believe DC is hinging 80%+ of the success of the SRT on perf & those mag numbers don't do it. I would also think DC wouldn't sit by & let poor perf numbers hit the streets - as it would hit the perf campaign right in the face. What do I expect from numbers from a reputable mag (oxymoron, I know) like a MotorTrend (he he), 0-60 in 3.8 secs, 0-100-0 in 13.20 (just ahead of the Porsche GT2), 1/4 in 11.9 @ 120 mph. Anything too off from these & I think DC's starting the marathon with their shoestrings tied together & I don't think they'll let that happen - or I hope not.

Dave.
(I'm starting to come over to Mike's side of the fence I think, it might be time to change my sig soon - waiting on a solid perf article, or, God forbid, more info from DC)

 

[kverges]

Elapsed times were not horrible, but were on par with what I would expect an inexperienced driver to do in a stock GTS. The speed at the end of the 1/4 is almost independent of wheelspin and a strong indicator of horsepower. The current GTS should run 117-119. I have had three GTSs and none have gone slower than about 118 in the 1/4. With 50 more hp on tap, better aero and less weight, I will not accept anything less than 122 mph out of the new car.

I am hoping that the mag used some crappy uphill, slick surface with crude instrumentation and a poor driver, as the other car mags have said they got no numbers and I assume DC gave instructions that the cars were for subjective evaluation only.

All I can say is that if I turn those numbers in my car it is gone as soon as I can dump it.

 

[MichaelP]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kverges:
I sure hope some hapless granny was driving.

0-60 4.4 sec
1/4 mile 12.3 @ 115 mph

It was a development mule, but all I can say is:

WEAK, WEAK, WEAK!

Please let this be an anomoly!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have a link to the article Keith?

 

[kverges]

The article is in print, Automobile has a web site, www.automobilemag.com, but I say no easy link to the article.

I hope it was just a tired mule of a car and the article does mention the rev limiter was set to 5800 rpm, so it may have been mapped way down on power to keep the press corps from destroying the car.

 

[Viperfreak2]

DC would not have allowed the magazine guys to hook up a proper electronic 5th wheel to measure the 0-60 or 1/4 mile times. I suspect a stopwatch and a yell from the driver to "stop it now". There's your missing .5 sec and 5-6 mph. How did they measure a 1/4 mile anyway, measuring tape? As a condition for being able to drive the cars this early (2 months ago by my estimate) DC should have banned them from disclosing any solid numbers. They didn't even describe how the stereo sounded......The article was full of blah blah blah info that didn't really say anything, except the BS numbers.

 

[Mike Brunton]

1Bad,

I have heard that Evan does alot of "things" to get the best numbers from a car - like icing the intake, and doing all sorts of things that makes the numbers he has gotten NOT representative of what a car can do on the street.

Didn't he get a stock C5 to run 12.6? And an F-body to run 12.8?

No offense, but it seems like every other of your posts talks about how GREAT Evan Smith is. Maybe you two should get married?

 

[V10 MOJO]

I agree with a few guys above, daffy for one, although i think we're looking a bit over 120, say 121-123. if that ends up being the case, those other numbers will sweeten up to everyones delight! experience is obviously a factor and a most important variable. Bottom line is fellas; quit worrying about it, its all hype, speculation, media and BS, just sit tight like you had to when waiting for santa and we'll all see what the deal is come christmas day! then all questions will be answered, period!

 

[King GTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Brunton:
1Bad,

I have heard that Evan does alot of "things" to get the best numbers from a car - like icing the intake, and doing all sorts of things that makes the numbers he has gotten NOT representative of what a car can do on the street.

Didn't he get a stock C5 to run 12.6? And an F-body to run 12.8?

No offense, but it seems like every other of your posts talks about how GREAT Evan Smith is. Maybe you two should get married?


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
No offense, but it seems like every other of your posts talks about how great Evan Smith is. Maybe you two should get married?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


WOW!


I really don't think that this new SRT's numbers will be any different from the published numbers of the current Vipers. We'll see. But it seems to me that every time a new car comes out that's supposed to be so much faster, when the mags get it, it's basically the same ol' times. I hope the new Viper is much faster, don't get me wrong, but based on the 1st test I've seen (above) it's not.

 

[Joseph Houss]

Mike,

I have seen Evan "prep" his test cars (including my 2000). All he does is put ice on the manifold (something that everyone should try if you want the best numbers), and make sure the tires are sticky by smokin' 'em up a bit at the line.

Everything else is "Pure Evan". He's just a brilliant driver.

By the way, I'm proud to say that a Viper intake is a "two bag" manifold, while our bowtie competitor can only hold one bag of those icy squares!

 

[V10 MOJO]

I agree with J Houss, its only common sense to do what you can to "tweak the numbers" whether its icing the intake or roughing the tires, its all experienced and classic technique for getting the best times. it'd be like better taping techniques for ankles in football (for off line acceleration) or wrists in boxing (for decreased injury possiblities and striking power increase). they are simple tricks of the trade, if you dont know them/do them, you should. If you condem them; you're a novice. BTW, Houss; "two bagger", LOL.

 

[MES]

Yep those times seem kind of weak, I was expecting more. I don't think DC would have let them test a "mule" I bet it was a complete SRT with the full 500HP. Can someone copy the actual article that this came from?

As for the ice bags, NO WAY SHOULD THEY BE USED!! I'm just talking about the magazines. If you want to use them yourself (many do) that's fine, as drag racing is about getting the best times. But to test a car, then publish the times as official verified numbers is BS. It needs to be fair and unbiased as it comes off the showroom floor. No ice bags, no lowering/raising tire pressure, no taking out the spare, no 1/8 tank of gas, etc. To make the tests fair that's the way it should be. If ice bags are OK why not some drag radials? slicks? strip the interior? run the car in Antarctica @50 below zero? To do so makes the 1/4 times meaningless because now you can't fairly compare one car to another.

 

[V10 MOJO]

MES i agree and must clarify, for mags. strickly stock, barebones, no BS, or tricks. as for racing, street, or any form of competition; all is fair in love and war; to the victor goes the spoils!

 

[King GTS]

I'd have to agree with MES as well.

 

[Mike Brunton]

Joe,

I'm not saying he's not a really good driver, but he has his niche and that is getting the best possible times from stock cars. I know from personal experience that ALOT of things can be done to "tweak" the numbers a car produces - often netting an easy few tenths in the 1/4.

We all know that a cool Viper motor is EASILY good for +20hp on the dyno... I wonder what an ICED motor is good for?

Sorry, but some guy making all sorts of "adjustments" to a car and creating conditions that can NEVER be replicated on the street doesn't really do much for me.

1 Bad,

Englishtown is about a 5 hour drive from me... I have been there a few times but it's not the sort of place I go to frequently. I'm not trying to slam you or be a ****, but it's just that when EVER someone talks about drag racing, you talk about Evan Smith and how WONDERFUL Evan Smith is and how GREAT Evan Smith is and how SUPER DUPER Evan Smith is. Do you fantasize about this guy at night? You're as evangelical about Smith as Fred Kinder is about driving school!

Just teasing ya though. As for MY run, I did it on a hot day in July when the temperature was in the 90's. I didn't drop the pressure in my car.. I didn't ice my intake (actually the motor was heat soaked from sitting idling in the staging lanes for about 20 minutes - and from a 5 hour drive from Boston with about a 10 minute "cooldown". I had 32psi of air in my MXX3's with 20k miles on them... I clicked off 4 11 second runs back-to-back and the best one was 11.68. You say nobody was there to see it? Jesus h-christ... it was the ZONE event! There were TONS of people there. Don Nase Jr. and I were talking about the runs right afterwards. I ran next to ACR Joe on a couple of them. Jamie Furman and Jason Heffner were there and Jamie saw my runs too. I don't know who else was there but there were a bunch. Joe Houss did the once-over on my car and confirmed it was stock (with only smooth tubes).

Now, I'm not saying I am better than Smith, but some of you guys act like he is god's gift to drag racing. Maybe he's really really really good, BUT, OTHERS HAVE RUN FASTER! Including me, Jamie Furman, and Jason Heffner to name just three. But you don't wanna listen to those times because "they are not published" - even if 100 people were there, "they are not published". Maybe I should start up a web-magazine and post my times and we'll see how it goes

As for Smith, I would LOOOOVE to run him a few times in equal cars side-by-side at E-town (give me a few runs to get used to the track). 1Bad, if I ever get the chance, I would like you to be there, and if I beat him on the runs, I want you to buy dinner for both of us, ok? And I eat like a pig so be warned!

 

[SmokinV10]

Yes its slow, what did you expect? It is a STRATUS RAG TOP.

 

[King GTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Brunton:
Joe,


I'm not saying he's not a really good driver, but he has his niche and that is getting the best possible times from stock cars. I know from personal experience that ALOT of things can be done to "tweak" the numbers a car produces - often netting an easy few tenths in the 1/4.


We all know that a cool Viper motor is EASILY good for +20hp on the dyno... I wonder what an ICED motor is good for?


Sorry, but some guy making all sorts of "adjustments" to a car and creating conditions that can NEVER be replicated on the street doesn't really do much for me.


1 Bad,


Englishtown is about a 5 hour drive from me... I have been there a few times but it's not the sort of place I go to frequently. I'm not trying to slam you or be a ****, but it's just that when EVER someone talks about drag racing, you talk about Evan Smith and how WONDERFUL Evan Smith is and how GREAT Evan Smith is and how SUPER DUPER Evan Smith is. Do you fantasize about this guy at night? You're as evangelical about Smith as Fred Kinder is about driving school!

Just teasing ya though. As for MY run, I did it on a hot day in July when the temperature was in the 90's. I didn't drop the pressure in my car.. I didn't ice my intake (actually the motor was heat soaked from sitting idling in the staging lanes for about 20 minutes - and from a 5 hour drive from Boston with about a 10 minute "cooldown". I had 32psi of air in my MXX3's with 20k miles on them... I clicked off 4 11 second runs back-to-back and the best one was 11.68. You say nobody was there to see it? Jesus h-christ... it was the ZONE event! There were TONS of people there. Don Nase Jr. and I were talking about the runs right afterwards. I ran next to ACR Joe on a couple of them. Jamie Furman and Jason Heffner were there and Jamie saw my runs too. I don't know who else was there but there were a bunch. Joe Houss did the once-over on my car and confirmed it was stock (with only smooth tubes).


Now, I'm not saying I am better than Smith, but some of you guys act like he is god's gift to drag racing. Maybe he's really really really good, BUT, OTHERS HAVE RUN FASTER! Including me, Jamie Furman, and Jason Heffner to name just three. But you don't wanna listen to those times because "they are not published" - even if 100 people were there, "they are not published". Maybe I should start up a web-magazine and post my times and we'll see how it goes

As for Smith, I would LOOOOVE to run him a few times in equal cars side-by-side at E-town (give me a few runs to get used to the track). 1Bad, if I ever get the chance, I would like you to be there, and if I beat him on the runs, I want you to buy dinner for both of us, ok? And I eat like a pig so be warned!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike,

I had no idea that you got an 11.6 out of a stock Viper!! That's amazing buddy!

Awesome number!!

 

[Mike Brunton]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1bad gts:
Mike once again you DID NOT SHOW FOR THE HEADS UP TROPHY you showed up for the MOP UP round Sunday(NOTHING COUNTED, THE COMPETITION WAS OVER ) .Will you be there this year (you failed to answer in your previous statement.)If you SHOW up and want to run ,Evan BOTH of you must run the SAME car.I am not implying you car is not stock but things like head work, gears, suspension ect can not be seen by the naked eye.(Or just let Evan drive you car.) Best time in the SAME VIPER WINS.ARE YOU COMINGOR NOT.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1Bad,

First of all - PLEASE get my name right - it's BRUNTON, not Burton. I get enough mis-addressed mail as it is

Second, I DID run in the trophy rounds last year... however there was a guy there that wanted to bring a trophy home to his son. I had dragged my brother down there since he is an AutoX fan, and it was getting late in the day and I had to head home - so, even though I WON MY FIRST TWO ROUNDS, I *DROPPED OUT* of the running so I could let my brother do some AutoX runs in my car. If you don't believe me, ask Joe Houss - I made it to the 1/4 finals but I decided to forfeit my place. Don't forget that it was BRACKET racing - and I never said I was consistently fast, just fast

(alot faster than you, I'm sure

). Bracket racing does nothing for me - I can easily dial in at 12.50 and make sure I juuust cross the line before the other guy.

You told me you weren't even there last year - right? I was there every day and I ran every day. Times slowed up on Sunday because it was humid, and I think the best I got was an 11.9 or something. Certainly I coulnd't have done any better than 11.77, because Mr. "I Crap Solid Gold Bars" Evan Smith only ran that, and there's no way I could have been faster!

I would *LOVE* to come down and run Evan straight up, BUT, I do not have a Viper right now! I would *GLADLY* run him in my SRT when it arrives, but I don't know when that will be. Until then, the only things I could run him in would be my '88 Corvette, a BMW 325, or on one of my bikes... and I don't think that would really say much. If someone has a bone stock Viper GTS they would let me run, I would GLADLY run the guy... as long as he isn't icing his intake, taking off the sway bar, removing his filters, and taking air out of his tires. And you know something, 1 Bad, I think I would lose to Evan 2 out of 3 times... but the times I did win, it would be purely because I rock at driving

. If I had 10 runs to make at E-town, I'm pretty sure I could snap off a good time or three... the problem is when you're really pushing it, it's easy to blow a few runs getting the hang of the machine.

1Bad, I just have to ask you one thing... when you talk about Evan to your friends.. do you clasp your hands and put them against your shoulder, tilt your head to one side, flutter your eyelids and stand on one foot and say "ohhhhh EVAN! he's just soooo WONDERFUL!!!! I wish I could be like him one day!!!!".

LOLOLOL... all in good fun 1Bad. Give me a Viper, and I'll come down and run the guy ANY DAY YOU LIKE. If you can't do that, then you'll have to wait until I get my SRT before you can have your satisfaction.

King,

11.68 to be exact (not 11.60 or anything). Only mod was the smooth tubes at that time. I have run in the 11's several times... 11.68, 11.72, 11.76, 11.85, 11.96 and a whole bunch of 12.0's. ANY stock Viper will run 11's. If you can't run 11's at E-town, you don't know how to drive

They spray the WHOLE track there. Your sneakers will stick to the start line after they prep the track.

 

[Mike Brunton]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark O:
Jeez Mike, I look in the Stratamaro section & I see that you were a busy guy last night!. You loaded up this whole section with new posts!!! I'm beginning to sense that you're starting to get a little hot under the collar. I'd suggest taking a few deep breaths into a paper bag before you hyperventilate.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't hyperventilate, I just eat people

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
But the fact of the matter is this; Chrysler really blew it with the design of this car. That's not an opinion,it's a fact. Personally, I don't think it's ugly, it's just generic looking, but what do you expect from the chief designer whose crowning achievemnet was the Corolla??? It just doesn't scream excitement anymore. I know that you are passionate about it & really like the looks of the car & you're excited about the performance of it. That's great. But I'd bet that there's more meople who are dissapointed with new design than are excited with it. When I went for the plant tour recently, before we even saw the 2003, our tour guide told us to look at the car with an open mind & it will grow on us in time. What's up with that??? When the 1989 concept Viper debuted (how old were you in 1989?:LOL

, it just oozed excitement. It was sex on wheels. Late in 1994, when buzz of that the GTS was going to be produced, I knew that I would own one. I HAD to have that car. I see that same excitement for the GT40 today. It's a shame that the new Viper doesn't emit that same feeling any more. They couldn't even leave the name alone. R/T has been Dodge's trademark since 1967. VGX....SRT...what's up with all those extra letters. To me, it just sounds silly.

If the design doesn't change, I see the Prowler's fate awiting the Viper & that would be a shame
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mark,

Regarding the "facts" on the SRT - how do you know that it's a fact? I know you're not a dumb guy - so bear with me. You will agree that the SRT is targeted to a different market, right? I think you will also agree that the average guy who buys a GenI/II Viper is probably into the outrageous looks and performance, right? Ok, so it's a further fact that DC is 'adjusting' the market of the SRT - so isn't it logical to assume that a less outrageously styled car would appeal to a larger overall market, yet one that is smaller within the GenI/GenII ranks? So it's reasonable to think that DC might have "blown it" with the design in the eyes of some in this club, but do you honestly think that *you* have a better background to judge whether this car is or is not a flop than a bunch of folks at DC who specilize in this stuff? Regarding who styled the car - I dont care who did it to be honest... have you seen some Pininfarina designs? Some are great, some are horrible.

What it all boils down to is this...

I like the car. You don't. Others do, others don't. What is the point of continuing to bash the car? What purpose does it serve? What will it accomplish? I've pointed out in other posts what negative things it will accomplish - so please tell me what positive things it will accomplish?

Mark, you guys that insist on ragging on the car come across as a bunch of malcontents who can't accept reality. The reality is that this *IS* the new Viper, like it or not. There will be no more magazine articles about the GTS. There will be no more GTS's pacing races or running factory sponsorships. The GenIII is now in the center of the spotlight. It will be like the Corvette... the C4 is now the "old" Corvette. If you tell someone about your Corvette and whip out a C4, they will say "Oh, I thought you had one of the new ones". The performance of the GTS will be eclipsed by that of the SRT. There will be folks who will always prefer the GTS... but the "mystique" surrounding the Viper will slowly but surely move towards the SRT... when it is SRT's you see in commercials, and in magazines, and on TV, and in movies, and being driven by celebrities, etc, etc, etc. You guys don't have to like it, but you're going to have to accept it. If you won't accept it, your options are to move on (to a GT-40 perhaps?) or keep on whining and taking shots at the car and so on. And what will that get you? Only alienation from what will quickly become the marjority of this club.

I don't like the C5 one bit. But I can't deny it is a better car in EVERY respect than my C4 is. The C5 essential *is* the Corvette right now - the C4 is just an old Vette.

The "stratamaro" posts and black pics of the new Viper are all haha and funny for now, but at what point do you guys give it up and accept this car, and stop being thorns in the side of those who LIKE this car?

P.S. Let's see.. in 1989... i was... hmm.. 12 years old. Didn't know then I'd be picking up my new GTS 9 years later... and waiting for an even better Viper just 5 years later again.

 

[SRT10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Russ M:
Mike,

Would you prefer that we all just run out and buy the **** thing? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't Russ because they are all sold out.

But there are a few dealers taking deposits for 2004 and maybe they can put you on their waiting list.

Mike likes the SRT and I agree with him. So far all the major car mags do as well.

PS I met Evan Smith and was impressed by his knowledge and experience. He seemed like a great guy and I would listen to any advice he would give me. Just my $.02 guys.

 

[Russ M]

Mike,

You seem to get very worked up when someone shows dislike in the SRT, why is that? Would you prefer that we all just run out and buy the **** thing? If that is the case can we just buy an s2000 and put viper badging on it to save some cash?

Please reply in under 2 pages long, or I will just ignore it. Cant spend too much time reading SRT propaganda.

 

[Russ M]

Lets see, sure I can this certificate here tells me I can.

And besides that, the area I live in every dealer will have several on the lot.

 

[Mike Brunton]

Too.... many..... postings.... brain.... hurting....


Ok, one at a time...


1Bad,

What event are you talking about? I am talking about the New England Zone Rendezvous last year - it was on June 1/2 (and maybe 3) of 2001. I showed up the first day, and I left the last day. I drag raced on both days, and we had a trophy eliminations on the 2nd day. I backed out of the 3rd round because I wanted to AutoX. Don't tell me I wasn't there, because I met a LOT of folks there that weekend, and I had a great time. I am not lying about it - I was there! I asked you in the past if you went and you said you coulnd't make it - so I have NO IDEA what race you're talking about - but I absolutely was at the Zone event and I absolutely did run in the 11's a bunch of times, culminating in a best of 11.68. That's all I can say bud...


Mark,

I hear what you're saying - and I can see your frustration, but you have to understand that you and others not liking the car aren't facts. I LOVE it. Lots of others do too. Whether the car will become an icon, or whether it will be as highly sought after as the GTS - well, we can argue until we're blue in the face but only time will tell, so what's the point? The only thing that we CAN be sure of is that this is where the new Viper is going... whether some of you guys want to accept it or not, it's going to happen. The SRT styling will not change. DC will not recall or cancel the car. Folks will buy them - and that, as they say, is that. I guess I just don't understand the point of rehashing this issue a million times. I think it looks great. You think it *****. DC is going to make it the way it looks now - there's not much else to do except not buy one, is there?

Russ,

I'm sure you're really busy being a "real racer" and all - what with your factory sponsorships and all the televised racing I've seen you doing. I'm honored you took your time to reply! Fact is - you can't buy an SRT, call the SRT info line if you don't believe me. If you were smart, you would have gotten one and sold it for a profit...

That's too bad they will be all over lots down there - isn't it going to upset you when you drive by every day and see tons of cars that will spank your Viper every day?

Chill out Russ, you'll live much happier...