Calculated cuts are Chrysler's best hope
- Thread starter JeffY
- Start date
ViperGTS
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2001
- Posts
- 5,016
- Reaction score
- 0
February 18, 2008
Chrysler executives have said they need to drop one-third to one-half of the vehicle models in their product lineup.
That leaves no room for sentimentality, only cold calculation as Chrysler LLC's leaders now decide which cars and trucks to eliminate as the company fights for survival.
The multiplicity of models Chrysler built when it sold 3 million cars a year is an extravagance the new, smaller company cannot afford, vice chairman Jim Press recently told the company's dealers at a meeting. The model line is riddled with overlap and uncompetitive vehicles. Chrysler management has said it must shrink to 18 or 19 vehicles.
Getting to that level will require a focused redefinition of the brands and a willingness to scuttle nameplates with grand histories and rabid fans. The company must then add new vehicles to move into popular market niches it doesn't compete in now.
But there are only so many seats in the lifeboat being launched in Auburn Hills. Squeezing an extra body aboard isn't an act of generosity; it's folly that will swamp the boat and doom its crew.
The automaker currently builds 25 or 30 vehicles for its Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands, depending on whether you count things like the two- and four-door versions of the Jeep Wrangler as one model or two.
"When you clear away the models that duplicate each other, it becomes obvious where the open spaces" for new models are, said Jim Hall, managing director of Birmingham consultants, 2953 Analytics.
Slim down, swap out
For instance, the Dodge Nitro is too similar to the Jeep Liberty, with which it shares all its major systems, much of its looks and a toehold in the rapidly shrinking market for midsize SUVs.
If you eliminate the Nitro, it becomes apparent that Dodge could use a small crossover SUV to get into a growing market populated by vehicles like the Ford Escape, Honda CR-V and Chevrolet Equinox.
And there's no need for both the Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan minivans.
Press recently told dealers that launching both minivans cost the company $100 million more than a single model would have. That figure is probably looking only at marketing costs.
When you add the engineering, purchasing and manufacturing cost of building and buying parts for two models versus one, the tab is probably considerably higher.
If you delete the Grand Caravan, another gaping hole in the company's model line becomes evident.
Dodge should add a midsize to large crossover SUV to get a share of the market enjoyed by popular models such as the Honda Pilot, Saturn Outlook and Toyota Highlander.
Then there are the models that don't fit the brand profile.
The Viper sports car, while lovely to look at, doesn't make sense in the Dodge lineup. Dodge needs performance models, but an $84,460 two-seater is too far removed from the rest of the brand's lineup. The $37,995 425-horsepower Challenger SRT8 is Dodge's natural flagship.
Next, deep-six the Jeep Compass compact SUV. The attempt to broaden Jeep from an off-road brand has failed. Its product line should be limited to vehicles with real off-road ability.
No automatic fix
As the automaker trims weak models from its lineup, some people talk as if dumping one so-so vehicle automatically will transform the surviving loser into a winner.
It won't. Addition by subtraction is a myth. The only way to add is by adding. That's how math works.
Here's the theory, flawed as it is: Neither the Chrysler Sebring nor Dodge Avenger midsize sedan is selling as well as Chrysler wants, and they are similar enough in price and size that they compete with each other. The assumption is that Chrysler could drop the Sebring -- reducing the company's manufacturing costs significantly -- then make more money by selling as many Avengers as it previously did both cars.
One of them must go, but not every Sebring buyer will conveniently switch to an Avenger. And that's more bad math: The commutative principle does not apply here.
Chrysler needs to attract buyers by developing appealing new models in market niches it has ignored and by improving the vehicles it keeps.
Otherwise, this lifeboat won't make it ashore.
Chrysler executives have said they need to drop one-third to one-half of the vehicle models in their product lineup.
That leaves no room for sentimentality, only cold calculation as Chrysler LLC's leaders now decide which cars and trucks to eliminate as the company fights for survival.
The multiplicity of models Chrysler built when it sold 3 million cars a year is an extravagance the new, smaller company cannot afford, vice chairman Jim Press recently told the company's dealers at a meeting. The model line is riddled with overlap and uncompetitive vehicles. Chrysler management has said it must shrink to 18 or 19 vehicles.
Getting to that level will require a focused redefinition of the brands and a willingness to scuttle nameplates with grand histories and rabid fans. The company must then add new vehicles to move into popular market niches it doesn't compete in now.
But there are only so many seats in the lifeboat being launched in Auburn Hills. Squeezing an extra body aboard isn't an act of generosity; it's folly that will swamp the boat and doom its crew.
The automaker currently builds 25 or 30 vehicles for its Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands, depending on whether you count things like the two- and four-door versions of the Jeep Wrangler as one model or two.
"When you clear away the models that duplicate each other, it becomes obvious where the open spaces" for new models are, said Jim Hall, managing director of Birmingham consultants, 2953 Analytics.
Slim down, swap out
For instance, the Dodge Nitro is too similar to the Jeep Liberty, with which it shares all its major systems, much of its looks and a toehold in the rapidly shrinking market for midsize SUVs.
If you eliminate the Nitro, it becomes apparent that Dodge could use a small crossover SUV to get into a growing market populated by vehicles like the Ford Escape, Honda CR-V and Chevrolet Equinox.
And there's no need for both the Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan minivans.
Press recently told dealers that launching both minivans cost the company $100 million more than a single model would have. That figure is probably looking only at marketing costs.
When you add the engineering, purchasing and manufacturing cost of building and buying parts for two models versus one, the tab is probably considerably higher.
If you delete the Grand Caravan, another gaping hole in the company's model line becomes evident.
Dodge should add a midsize to large crossover SUV to get a share of the market enjoyed by popular models such as the Honda Pilot, Saturn Outlook and Toyota Highlander.
Then there are the models that don't fit the brand profile.
The Viper sports car, while lovely to look at, doesn't make sense in the Dodge lineup. Dodge needs performance models, but an $84,460 two-seater is too far removed from the rest of the brand's lineup. The $37,995 425-horsepower Challenger SRT8 is Dodge's natural flagship.
Next, deep-six the Jeep Compass compact SUV. The attempt to broaden Jeep from an off-road brand has failed. Its product line should be limited to vehicles with real off-road ability.
No automatic fix
As the automaker trims weak models from its lineup, some people talk as if dumping one so-so vehicle automatically will transform the surviving loser into a winner.
It won't. Addition by subtraction is a myth. The only way to add is by adding. That's how math works.
Here's the theory, flawed as it is: Neither the Chrysler Sebring nor Dodge Avenger midsize sedan is selling as well as Chrysler wants, and they are similar enough in price and size that they compete with each other. The assumption is that Chrysler could drop the Sebring -- reducing the company's manufacturing costs significantly -- then make more money by selling as many Avengers as it previously did both cars.
One of them must go, but not every Sebring buyer will conveniently switch to an Avenger. And that's more bad math: The commutative principle does not apply here.
Chrysler needs to attract buyers by developing appealing new models in market niches it has ignored and by improving the vehicles it keeps.
Otherwise, this lifeboat won't make it ashore.
ledfoot
Viper Owner
Who's Mark Phelan ?..
B767DRIVER
Viper Owner
About Mark Phelan
February 18, 2008
Mark Phelan was born Dec. 12, 1959, in Thomasville, Ga. Born to Irish parents, he spent parts of many years in Ireland as a child. The family moved to Michigan in 1972 and Phelan graduated with a bachelor’s degree in journalism from Michigan State University in 1982.
Phelan has covered the auto industry since 1986, writing for publications including the Detroit Free Press, New York Times, Road & Track magazine and Ward’s Auto World.
Advertisement
February 18, 2008
You must be registered for see images
Mark Phelan was born Dec. 12, 1959, in Thomasville, Ga. Born to Irish parents, he spent parts of many years in Ireland as a child. The family moved to Michigan in 1972 and Phelan graduated with a bachelor’s degree in journalism from Michigan State University in 1982.
Phelan has covered the auto industry since 1986, writing for publications including the Detroit Free Press, New York Times, Road & Track magazine and Ward’s Auto World.
Advertisement
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
He was based in Europe in 1987 and 1988, and has covered the auto industry around the world, including work in Australia, China, Japan, Thailand, Mexico, Argentina and Brazil.dave6666
Enthusiast
I'm organizing a hunting trip for all the Chrysler execs.
Anyone interested?
Anyone interested?
ViperGTS
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2001
- Posts
- 5,016
- Reaction score
- 0
Invite Dick!
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
It doesn't make any less sense today than it did in 1992. So what's this guy's point?
Terrific, he has the ability to write. Which primarily means he has the ability to be controversial. So why would I care what some rag prints that isn't any smarter and doesn't have any more insight than the rest of us on this board?
slaughterj
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2001
- Posts
- 5,266
- Reaction score
- 0
He clearly lacks information, e.g., that many of the Viper owners own additional Chrysler/Dodge products and make decisions about businesses' purchases of vehicles that may well change without the Viper.
Zan186
Viper Owner
The Viper sports car, while lovely to look at, doesn't make sense in the Dodge lineup. Dodge needs performance models, but an $84,460 two-seater is too far removed from the rest of the brand's lineup. The $37,995 425-horsepower Challenger SRT8 is Dodge's natural flagship.
lol anyone else find this amusing! Doesn't make sense in their lineup? Well, I think the only place a Viper would make sense in a car manufactuers line up is Ferrari or Lambo's.
The Viper is a Halo car, the top of the food chain from Mopar! I think Dodge would be hurt from cancelling the Viper. Personally, I think they are not doing the Viper any favors by trying to make it affordable.
Personally, I think the Viper should take a page from Ferrari's play book. I would introduce a series of interior upgrades to start. Option starting in 2009 to have a Carbon Fiber interior to eliminate plastics. Sure this is going to cost more but let's face the facts, the Viper is not a Corvette. People that buy Vipers are usually pretty well off or wealthy. The Viper is not for a blue collar worker making 60k a year.
Next thing for Viper would be to go on a diet without compromising strength. The Ford GT would be a good role model to follow. Perhaps going to an Aluminum frame and Carbon Fiber body's is the answer. They need to find a way to get the Viper's weight down to 3000lbs.
Dropping the weight and increasing the quality of the interiors is going to come at a cost, but if someone is looking in the 100k market they will also be eyeing the 120k to 150k area as well.
I would rather see the Viper get a bit more expensive and see the quality increase than see it retired.
I would also would rather see them reduce the numbers of Vipers produced to essentially create more demand. 1000 Vipers per year would definately keep the demand higher. Charge more for a better product and everyone is happy. Dodge makes more money per unit, consumer gets a much better quality car and the reputation of the Viper leap frogs over Porsche and Mercedes.
lol anyone else find this amusing! Doesn't make sense in their lineup? Well, I think the only place a Viper would make sense in a car manufactuers line up is Ferrari or Lambo's.
The Viper is a Halo car, the top of the food chain from Mopar! I think Dodge would be hurt from cancelling the Viper. Personally, I think they are not doing the Viper any favors by trying to make it affordable.
Personally, I think the Viper should take a page from Ferrari's play book. I would introduce a series of interior upgrades to start. Option starting in 2009 to have a Carbon Fiber interior to eliminate plastics. Sure this is going to cost more but let's face the facts, the Viper is not a Corvette. People that buy Vipers are usually pretty well off or wealthy. The Viper is not for a blue collar worker making 60k a year.
Next thing for Viper would be to go on a diet without compromising strength. The Ford GT would be a good role model to follow. Perhaps going to an Aluminum frame and Carbon Fiber body's is the answer. They need to find a way to get the Viper's weight down to 3000lbs.
Dropping the weight and increasing the quality of the interiors is going to come at a cost, but if someone is looking in the 100k market they will also be eyeing the 120k to 150k area as well.
I would rather see the Viper get a bit more expensive and see the quality increase than see it retired.
I would also would rather see them reduce the numbers of Vipers produced to essentially create more demand. 1000 Vipers per year would definately keep the demand higher. Charge more for a better product and everyone is happy. Dodge makes more money per unit, consumer gets a much better quality car and the reputation of the Viper leap frogs over Porsche and Mercedes.
ViperGTS
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2001
- Posts
- 5,016
- Reaction score
- 0
We are Viper owners and enthusiast. We see the world with different eyes.
Interesting to see other opinions, even if we do not like these opinions.
In the narrow-minded world of the Cerberus bean counters the Viper might be truly a dream, exotic and may be even senseless car between the "real world" cars like the 300C, Voyager, Nitro, Sebring...
Interesting to see other opinions, even if we do not like these opinions.
In the narrow-minded world of the Cerberus bean counters the Viper might be truly a dream, exotic and may be even senseless car between the "real world" cars like the 300C, Voyager, Nitro, Sebring...
costanZo
Enthusiast
Les Quam
Enthusiast
Those of us (which includes me) who think the new bean counter owners at Dodge are not going to find it necessary to axe the Viper are guilty of wishful thinking I am afraid? Ford has their Mustang and Dodge will have a 500HP six speed flagship Challenger sometime in the near future and yup I will be happy to buy and enjoy the 500HP Challenger.
Viper will go down in history as one of the most amazing cars ever built only the 260 CSX 3000 series Shelby Cobra's from the 60s will command the same aura and mystique of the Viper. The next great collectible automotive icon will soon be upon us. Hold on to your Vipers boys and watch this appreciation ride unfold in the next decade. Watch the cost of NOS Viper parts skyrocket as well.
Viper will go down in history as one of the most amazing cars ever built only the 260 CSX 3000 series Shelby Cobra's from the 60s will command the same aura and mystique of the Viper. The next great collectible automotive icon will soon be upon us. Hold on to your Vipers boys and watch this appreciation ride unfold in the next decade. Watch the cost of NOS Viper parts skyrocket as well.
Warfang
Enthusiast
It doesn't work that way. Real world fluctuations of cost and supply don't always reciprocate in demand. The Viper's charm had always been "Ferarri performance without the Ferarri price tag." This is why the ZR1 will fail, and why Ford didn't bother with a second round of the GT/GR1. $90k, while not cheap, is relatively affordable as a NA high performance car.
While no one would argue that less weight is bad, an aluminum frame has just not proven itself to be a good platform on the track. Sacrificing rigidity for weight is not a good tradeoff in my book. There are other ways to lose weight. As for fancy interior options... save it for the Ferarri pretty boys. The Viper is about bare bones raw power. Frankly, the whole 10 thousand combination of color/stripes/interiors currently available is already a bit too metro for me. As far as I'm concerned it should only come in red, black or primer... go paint it urself!
Go back to simplifying the car, which will lower the cost to produce it and limit selection to stop excess supply of unpopular colors. Refresh the looks (bring back curves! New slots on the hood doesn't cut it). Advertise the heck out of it, and enter (and WIN) high profile races. Anything else is just a recipe for a slow death.
GTSnake
Enthusiast
The plain simple truth is that Chrysler cannot afford to keep making a low volume, low profit, high cost halo car. When you're fighting for survival you need to throw everything overboard that isn't meat and potatoes. The Viper is frosting on the cake and although it tastes good it's not worth the calories...
Like Les said keep your cars I bet the value will jump in a few years. Actually I'm surprised that production has lasted this long. When it first came out I suspected it would be a limited run and knew it was an instant collector. The positive side is that Viper is now part of Chrysler heritage just like the Hemi, Cuda, Challenger etc. Just because production stops now doesnt' mean sometime in the future IF Chrysler stays intact they can't bring it back.
Like Les said keep your cars I bet the value will jump in a few years. Actually I'm surprised that production has lasted this long. When it first came out I suspected it would be a limited run and knew it was an instant collector. The positive side is that Viper is now part of Chrysler heritage just like the Hemi, Cuda, Challenger etc. Just because production stops now doesnt' mean sometime in the future IF Chrysler stays intact they can't bring it back.
costanZo
Enthusiast
Similar threads
