Difficulty With Second Gear......................

[Don Hiltz]

Now that the temperatures have gotten cool again, I've developed the same problem I experienced last winter............ It is difficult to get the transmision into 2nd until the tranny gets warm/hot. A resistance is encountered which requires a moderate force to overcome. There's no noise associated with it and it seems to abate compoletely once everything's up to operating temperature.

By the time I get it to the dealer, it's warm and there's no problem. My other option is to leave it at the dealership overnight and let them feel it when it's cold. I don't like that option.

Has anyone else experienced this? Any ideas about the cause.

Thanks....

Don

 

[viperbilliam]

Nothing to do with CAGS?

 

[03gobluecobra]

I had a similar issue with the T-56 on my cobra. Changing transmission fluid is what fixed it for me.

 

[Racer Robbie]

I do not believe that your shifting problem has anything to do with CAGS. Randy, at Zero A., had the same problem and I drained his transmission and refilled it with Royal Purple Synchromax. He has had no problems after the refill. Here is the link: http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/scmax.html

Robbie

 

[boplaw]

Robbie, do you know how much it takes offhand? I replaced the tranny fluid in my e39 M5 w/ Royal Purple and liked it much better.

 

[Racer Robbie]

Robbie, do you know how much it takes offhand? I replaced the tranny fluid in my e39 M5 w/ Royal Purple and liked it much better.

ROYAL PURPLE 01512, SYNCHROMAX TRANSMISSION, 4 QTS

 

[Viper X]

Don,

This is fairly normal with the T-56 trans and the factory fill - Castol Syntorq.

Both of the SRT trans missions I've driven have this issue when cold.

I'd be careful putting other than the factory fill in these transmissions. The factory fill is very resistant to heat. These transmissions can get extremely hot when driven hard in warm weather and you may void your warranty.

4 quarts is the number.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Alabama can't be getting cold enough winter weather to create what appears to be a thick fluid issue... can it?

You can "test" the concept by filling with DEXRON-III fluid, which is what the T-56 once used and I believe the T-56 in other applications uses. It will have the protection and compatibility needed, but certainly be thinner.

It's an inexpensive enough fluid, as long as you don't mind doing it yourself.

 

[Racer Robbie]

Alabama can't be getting cold enough winter weather to create what appears to be a thick fluid issue... can it?

You can "test" the concept by filling with DEXRON-III fluid, which is what the T-56 once used and I believe the T-56 in other applications uses. It will have the protection and compatibility needed, but certainly be thinner.

It's an inexpensive enough fluid, as long as you don't mind doing it yourself.

It is true that RT-10 and GTS Vipers used Dextron in the tranys. As of 2003 when they came out with the SRT-10 they did away with Dextron. As I mentioned above Randy, at Zero A., had the same problem and I drained his transmission which had Dextron in it. When we refilled it with Royal Purple the problem went away within 50 miles.

 

[Don Hiltz]

Today I had the tranny drained (4 qts.) and refilled with Mopar fluid. I'll let you know if it worked. Tom, you're correct; it's not that cold here yet, but some mornings have been in the fifties and I could tell the difference.

Thanks to all who responded....

Don

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Robbie, I have a '94 that started with DEXRON, had the Castrol Syntorq, now has GM's synthetic manual transmission lubricant. With this background, I suggested DEXRON as a test of viscosity. DEXRON would have all the OEM-tested and approved additives, so we would know if Don's issue was viscosity (and therefore temperature) related.

The reason for this test is that the difference (in the fluid characteristics) between 50F and 80F are virtually none (in my experience) while the difference in viscosity between the fluids is larger.

And I don't sell Royal Purple, I guess.

 

[Racer Robbie]

Robbie, I have a '94 that started with DEXRON, had the Castrol Syntorq, now has GM's synthetic manual transmission lubricant. With this background, I suggested DEXRON as a test of viscosity. DEXRON would have all the OEM-tested and approved additives, so we would know if Don's issue was viscosity (and therefore temperature) related.

The reason for this test is that the difference (in the fluid characteristics) between 50F and 80F are virtually none (in my experience) while the difference in viscosity between the fluids is larger.

And I don't sell Royal Purple, I guess.

Your point is well taken. I used Royal Purple products for many years in all my personal toys. I have never had a failure. I do not stock Royal Purple Products except for my own use. As far as a customers car I will put in whatever he wants me to when it is in the shop.

 

[Viper Wizard]

It is true that RT-10 and GTS Vipers used Dextron in the tranys. As of 2003 when they came out with the SRT-10 they did away with Dextron. As I mentioned above Randy, at Zero A., had the same problem and I drained his transmission which had Dextron in it. When we refilled it with Royal Purple the problem went away within 50 miles.

Dextron in T-56's stopped in 1997 when they went with metal synchronizer! Putting synthetic fluid in a T-56 with fiber synchro's [before 97] WILL make for HARD shifting in cold temps!!

Knowing Randy & Jack I'm sure their trans was do for a service anyway and they have a 94 & 96.

My 2-cents, royal purple is a waste of money!

 

[Racer Robbie]

It is true that RT-10 and GTS Vipers used Dextron in the tranys. As of 2003 when they came out with the SRT-10 they did away with Dextron. As I mentioned above Randy, at Zero A., had the same problem and I drained his transmission which had Dextron in it. When we refilled it with Royal Purple the problem went away within 50 miles.

Dextron in T-56's stopped in 1997 when they went with metal synchronizer! Putting synthetic fluid in a T-56 with fiber synchro's [before 97] WILL make for HARD shifting in cold temps!!

Knowing Randy & Jack I'm sure their trans was do for a service anyway and they have a 94 & 96.

My 2-cents, royal purple is a waste of money!

Chuck,
Randy and Jack came to me to discuss their hard shifting transmission that had never had the fluid changed. I told them I believed the transmission would need to be serviced as it had a ton of miles on it with out a fluid change. They told me that they called you and that you said to try changing the fluid first and that you sold them the Dextron fluid that they had my shop refill their transmission with. After 2 weeks it shifted no better. They told me they called you and they said you had given them the wrong fluid, something about the fiber synchro's was mentioned, and to return it for credit. They had no idea how they were to return it as it was already in their viper transmission and the containers were long thrown out. I told them I had been running Royal Purple in my 2003 with no problems but told them to call both you and Royal Purple first before using it in their viper. Randy and Jack told me they discussed Royal Purple with you and told me that you had said that it was ok to try it. They also called Royal Purple directly and talked to their tech people before they went out and bought it. I did not sell it to them, I only drained and refilled their transmission with it. It has solved Randy & Jack's shifting problem. I see them all the time and they say that so far the transmission is shifting fine.

Please remember I am not bashing you, I respect you totally. You are the Viper God as far as I am concerned. I am only stating what Randy and Jack told me of their conversations with you. I wanted to call you before installing the Royal Purple, as I was aware of the fiber synchro's but they said it was not needed.

Why do you feel Royal Purple is a waste of money? Please educate me as to why you feel this way about Royal Purple Products, and what you would use instead. Do you feel another brand is better, and if so, what one? I am always ready to learn from the best Viper Tech around.

Robbie

 

[Viper Wizard]

Robbie I HAVE NOT talked to Randy in OVER a year and I DID NOT sell them ANY oil because I can not ship oils!! So I have no idea what you are talking about!


As for the royal purple, I have a friend that builds high HP Harley's and they tested RP and it failed across the board! That's all I needed to hear!
You can use want you want and I will use stock fluids!

 

[Viper Wizard]

Robbie I just got of the phone with Jack @ ZAF and he has no idea what you talking about either!

 

[Racer Robbie]

Robbie As for the royal purple, I have a friend that builds high HP Harley's and they tested RP and it failed across the board! That's all I needed to hear!
You can use want you want and I will use stock fluids!

Chuck, This is scary information about Royal Purple. Did they test the motorcycle version or just the automotive version of the engine oil? I have a Harley and a Honda and both the dealers recommend Royal Purple and use it in all the oil changes they do at their dealerships. I have to wonder what the manufactures would have to say if I or any other customers had a failure due to this oil.

Robbie

 

[Racer Robbie]

Robbie I just got of the phone with Jack @ ZAF and he has no idea what you talking about either!

Chuck,

I am now confused here too! I do not know what to say here. I had many conversations over this issue in person with them at the time. I will be going over to see them later today and will find what the story is. Maybe they mentioned your name at the same time as another dealership when talking to me. I am sure you know I would not go and make this up.

Robbie

 

[evomind]

fwiw, my buddy makes a good living building race engines for motorcycles and he swears by royal purple.
he says he ALWAYS sees a gain in hp on the dyno just from switching to royal purple.
and no, he isnt a distributor.

 

[Viper Wizard]

I have talked to Randy @ ZAF and we got the stories stright! No problem here.

The person that told me about the failers with royal purple post here and I'll ask them if they would comment about it.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

I would listen to Chuck!

I would stick with what OEM specifies.

 

[Racer Robbie]

QUOTE:

"Robbie I HAVE NOT talked to Randy in OVER a year and I DID NOT sell them ANY oil because I can not ship oils!! So I have no idea what you are talking about"! / "Robbie I just got of the phone with Jack @ ZAF and he has no idea what you talking about either!"
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Randy at ZAF, Chuck Tator, and I discussed the above statement regarding Chucks comments in the above posts, on the phone this afternoon, in a three way phone conversation together. Randy did refresh Chuck's memory and Chuck does now recall the two earlier conversations that he had this summer with Randy regarding his transmission and what oil he recommended that Randy put in it as Randy was having shifting issues with his 2004 RT-10 Viper. The confusion seems to be in the fact that Randy did not buy the oil from Chuck, as I had thought at the time. I did the transmission oil change with the oil supplied to me by Randy, that was recommended by Chuck in his conversation with Randy.

Chuck, I would like to thank you for being the gentleman you are in discussing this matter. Sometimes it is better to pick up the phone and talk things out together before comments posted here are taken out of context.
Again, thanks.
Robbie

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I also called Royal Purple this afternoon and told them that their cross reference charts, both on the web and in their catalog, were wrong as to what the proper transmission oil is in different year vipers. I had told them that I had discussed the proper oil to be used with our Viper Tech, Chuck Tator, and that they needed to update their catalog and web site. I was told that before switching to their brand lubricants that one should call them at 1-888-382-6300 so they can cross over the OEM part number and tell you which one of their products to use. One should not have to call first as far as I am concerned.

As much as I love Royal Purple Products I do find it scary that their catalog and web site are not correct. One should not have to call them up to double check their cross reference charts. They have told me they are in the process of redoing it.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Motorcyle oils, especially for the poorly designed Harley engines, have a few differences from "auto" oils.

1) They do not contain friction modifiers (FM), since bikes often share the lube for the engine and clutch/transmission. Friction modifiers on clutch plates is obviously not a good thing.

2) They usually contain more zinc-phosphorus anti-wear additives. While it arguably adds to the anti-wear performance, the reality is that back in the days of API SG, fuel economy was not that important and friction modifiers were not heavily used. Coincidentally, phosphorus levels were high. The auto OEMs wanted better fuel economy (so more FM) and longer catalyst life (so less phosphorus) and auto oils changed this way with API SJ, API SL, and API SM. The greater FM use turned bike users away and bike oil manfuacturers simply kept using API SG type additive packages. There are no cats on bikes (I think) so the bike OEMs don't care about phosphorus. Some motorcycle oils add more phosphorus to make their oils "better."

3) Motorcycle oils should have more shear stable viscosity index improvers, since the oil runs through gears.

4) Motorcycle manufacturers are smaller, volumes are lower, so prices are higher.

You could use a motorcycle oil in your car, but for the same price you can get a diesel oil, which would have even more "goodies" inside.

 

[Racer Robbie]

Hey Tom, You are the best!

You should go on the road giving talks on lubricants. Back in the early I attended one put on by Quaker State and I learned a lot back then. I would love to attend a siminar put on by you perhaps at a Viper meet.

Robbie

 

[Racer Robbie]

I have talked to Randy @ ZAF and we got the stories stright! No problem here.

The person that told me about the failers with royal purple post here and I'll ask them if they would comment about it.

hey Chuck!

Thanks for being the gentleman that I know you are. Now everyone is on the same page.

Robbie