Do I Need a Burp or Bank

[boozilla2000]

I started the 93 RT10 up the other day after having it sit in the garage all winter (Wisconsin). Had to jump and it smoked a little. Fearing there might be a mouse nest near the exhaust, I shut it off and of course, it wouldn’t start. Tried jumping it again but what it really needed was a good old fashioned battery charge. When it was running everything was fine (no coolant loss). I went in the garage today and fired it up (2 turns and vrmmmm.).

So, I’m sitting there letting it “warm up” when I notice the green antifreeze dripping from under the middle of the front spoiler. I check the engine and can’t find a leak and my head is too big to get underneath the spoiler. The car is running smooth but I still have this leak and the engine light came on and lo and behold, the temperature gauge spiked to the top. I turned on the heater (cause I didn’t know what else to do) and nothing, just cold air. In summary, I ran the engine for about 7 minutes and lost probably two good *** and coke sized glasses of coolant. For what it is worth, I had the thermostat professionally replaced 2 years ago at a cost of $800. No one told me you had to remove the intake manifold to get at the thermostat.

Any ideas on what the problem is? Do you think I simply need to burp it or is something more sinister ($800) going on? I understand the 1993 model is difficult to burp but what the heck, I burped things before (like my two kids). Any help on what the problem is or how to burp the beast would be appreciated as spring time has arrived! Thanks.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Gen 1 w/a coolant leak? Have the headgaskets been replaced to the new MLS design? If not, its probably the headgaskets and you'll need a bank. $1k+ for the gaskets and its about a 10 hour job according to "the book". Prob $2k+ total.

 

[VIPER 93]

Heater core ?

 

[jdeft1]

Hummm......... checked the coolent level???

 

[jdeft1]

It's a leak!!!

 

[jdeft1]

Runn for the hills!!!

 

[FrankBarba]

Burp it....

 

[boozilla2000]

Thanks guys. I'm leaning towards burping it Friday night along with a few brewskis. Shouldn't be the head gaskets as the thing only has 30K miles and runs like a ***** ape. Whatever it is, it started leaking the second time I got the car started, not the first time, which leads me to believe its a burping issue? I'll wiggle my head under the front facia tomorrow night to investigate further (and check the coolant level).

 

[John Baringer]

Thanks guys. I'm leaning towards burping it Friday night along with a few brewskis. Shouldn't be the head gaskets as the thing only has 30K miles and runs like a ***** ape. Whatever it is, it started leaking the second time I got the car started, not the first time, which leads me to believe its a burping issue? I'll wiggle my head under the front facia tomorrow night to investigate further (and check the coolant level).

Here is how my mechanic burp my cooling system the first time. If you have access to a lift.

Gallery :: jbv :: jbv_059

As far as the headgasket go. My 94 sat all winter, moved car out to setup a new tool box, and antifreeze under the engine. Further investigation showed headgasket problem. Thank God I bought the MLS gaskets before Christmas in the group buy! Car has 9K miles on it. My guess would be car sat to much in the past as I am the third owner of the car. Car has always ran great. I would hope that this is not your case, but in case it is, here is a gallery of detailed pictures of the job. While I was doing the job, I had new mounter mounts, hoses, spark plugs, and spark plug wires done. Big Thanks to My Mechanic Randy Forbes, and help from Sean Roe, and of course The Wizard. If you have any other questions just PM me.

Gallery :: Viper_GenI_headgaskets

 

[dave6666]

How does air in the system - the need for the burp - disclose itself as an external leak? A leak free system should be able to hold both air AND coolant in. I'd find the leak and fix it. Then fill and burp the system. What's your oil look like?

 

[Steve-Indy]

"How does air in the system - the need for the burp - disclose itself as an external leak?"

Well, one way is to have a bad, old, drop-down pressure bottle cap ( aka "radiator cap") that allows heated, expanded coolant (and any air in the system) to flow into over-flow bottle, but does not allow system to **** the fluid back after engine shut off/cool down...so, overflow bottle may indeed be full, thus dumping fluid on the ground. If so, pressure bottle is likely empty, and, you are low on coolant in entire system...so no to heater core to produce heat (while you are there, be sure that the water valve control wire has not slipped off of the water valve on the heater). Get a new cap with the spring loaded center.

Another common possibility is that the hoses to and from the overflow bottle are old and loose...thus allowing the suction to be broken during cool down phase, again causing overflow bottle to fill up and overflow after multiple run cycles. This can be fixed with a couple of small hose clamps.

I would check this first, then take all the other suggestiong

 

[boozilla2000]

"How does air in the system - the need for the burp - disclose itself as an external leak?"

Well, one way is to have a bad, old, drop-down pressure bottle cap ( aka "radiator cap") that allows heated, expanded coolant (and any air in the system) to flow into over-flow bottle, but does not allow system to **** the fluid back after engine shut off/cool down...so, overflow bottle may indeed be full, thus dumping fluid on the ground. If so, pressure bottle is likely empty, and, you are low on coolant in entire system...so no to heater core to produce heat (while you are there, be sure that the water valve control wire has not slipped off of the water valve on the heater). Get a new cap with the spring loaded center.

Another common possibility is that the hoses to and from the overflow bottle are old and loose...thus allowing the suction to be broken during cool down phase, again causing overflow bottle to fill up and overflow after multiple run cycles. This can be fixed with a couple of small hose clamps.

I would check this first, then take all the other suggestiong

This might sound about right as I forgot to mention that a few times in the past few years I noticed a small puddle under the car after I shut it off and it seemed to take care of itself. I'm working on it this afternoon and will post my findings so it may help others as well. Thanks.

 

[dave6666]

"How does air in the system - the need for the burp - disclose itself as an external leak?"

Well, one way is to have a bad, old, drop-down pressure bottle cap ( aka "radiator cap") that allows heated, expanded coolant (and any air in the system) to flow into over-flow bottle, but does not allow system to **** the fluid back after engine shut off/cool down...so, overflow bottle may indeed be full, thus dumping fluid on the ground. If so, pressure bottle is likely empty, and, you are low on coolant in entire system...so no to heater core to produce heat (while you are there, be sure that the water valve control wire has not slipped off of the water valve on the heater). Get a new cap with the spring loaded center.

Another common possibility is that the hoses to and from the overflow bottle are old and loose...thus allowing the suction to be broken during cool down phase, again causing overflow bottle to fill up and overflow after multiple run cycles. This can be fixed with a couple of small hose clamps.

I would check this first, then take all the other suggestiong

Then I might say, that is a leak in the system disclosing itself as air in the system.

 

[boozilla2000]

Okay. Here's the deal. I looked at the plastic bottle underneath the right headlamp. It is the source of the leak as the inside of the spoiler has a puddle of antifreeze right under the plastic bottle. The bottle is empty. I think I am going to try and figure out how to get at the bottle so I can check the hose connection. Then I will make a trip to the parts store and get some new hosing, new clamps, a GenII radiator cap, some antifreeze, and come back home and get to work. It looks rediculous as to how you have to put the antifreeze in the bottle (through the radiator cap overflow hose) but alas, its a viper. Once I have this done, I will figure out how to burp it. More to come...

 

[Steve-Indy]

As is often the case, Dave...you are correct!!! I have had this happen to a couple of our Vipers, so it's always worth checking.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Something else you may want to check is, a screw in the bumper is directly under the bottle. Hit a couple good bumps and the screw may puncture the bottle. The way to correct this is either remove and grind down the screw or just remove and leave it out. You then need to either repair or replace the bottle.

 

[boozilla2000]

Anyone have any ideas on how the heck I get at the overflow bottle under the RF headlight without taking the whole car apart?

 

[Steve-Indy]

<p>no need...just call me.<</p>
SORRY...MY error...Somehow I was thinking that this was a 99 !!!
As we discussed, 93 much different but I think you are on the right track.

Again, sorry for my senility...good to speak with you!!
P.S. I can fax 93 manual info to you if you need it.
Next stop...Chuck, the Wizard!!

 

[Steve-Indy]

JonB at Parts Rack wrote some excellent instructions for "burping" 92-93 Viper...BUT, I cannot seem to find them yet...may be buried in archives.

Consider calling him if you can't get Chuck.

 

[boozilla2000]

Gotta love it! Went to the parts store and got a new cap ($6.99), some new overflow container hose and some antifreeze. Interestingly enough, it only took a cup or two of antifreeze added through both the radiator cap (1.5 cups) and through the heater core (short hose 0.5 cups). If the new cap doesn't solve the problem, it has to be a split hose going to the overflow bottle that I can't see. The GenI 93 viper does not have an pressure bottle. In lieu of taking off the front end, I plan on coercing my nimble buddy (with a few drinks) to stick his skinny little vise-grip irish fingers up the view portal in the RF wheel-well to replace the oveflow hose.

However, we now have a different problem. With all the jump starts, the alarm has decided to lock itself into "I won't stay running" mode. I will address this issue seperately and will attempt to correct it tomorrow after the battery is fully charged again. Hopefully, if and when it starts, the antifreeze issue will be solved. If not, time to load up on *** for a Friday night guy get-together, and "oh, by the way, do you think you can help me for momment" kind of thing with my buddy. My hands are too fat to get up in there. Thanks to all who posted responses, especially to Steve in Indy who was a tremendous help. Hopefully I'll have some good news to provide to the group tomorrow. Boozilla out...

 

[Steve-Indy]

Still cannot find JonB's specific instructions for 92 & 93...that he refers to in this post from 1/29/01:

"This is a PERFECT example of "The Year Matters!"

1) You definitely need to BURP your motor of trapped air.
92-93 radiator caps are BELOW the coolant in the block. Taking off the cap while the car is parked flat 100% guarantees coolant backflow and trapped air.

2) SOMEWHERE on this site are my complete burping instructions...

3) 1992-93 Temp Guage is 'overly sensitive' and was re-calibrated in 1994 onward.

4) Your T-stat is probably not involved in this problem.

5) You may e-mail me directly as well

JonB PartsRack"

 

[badasp2]

if you filled the coolant up too much befor winter shut down it is only coming out the overflow from the lower canister and it flows toward the cener of frontfacia and leaks to the ground. i would think this is what has happened(over filled it)

 

[boozilla2000]

Its offical. Blown head gasket. Charged it up overnight and it started no problem so the alarm issued was solved (probably just needed a good charged battery to disengage the alarm). Saw a little steam out the left exhaust but figured it was break-in from the winter. Let it run and saw a little smoke under the hood. Sut it off and cleared away the mouse nest on top of the intake and started it up again. This time we got antifreeze out of the left exhaust. No more monkeying around on this one. Will have it towed to the shop. I guess I really did need the bank.

 

[Steve-Indy]

SORRY to hear that...I always HOPE for the least complex/expensive solution!!

 

[boozilla2000]

Well, the tow truck will be here Monday. Concentrating now on screwing up the lawnmower and boat engine. Maybe, just maybe, I'll have the shop throw in that cam I've been wanting since they will have the engine out and bore out those cylinders while they are at it. Oh what the heck, might as well go with the oversized valves too. Its only money...Fat chance. With the $2.5K for the head gaskets, I think I'll save the other $4K in upgrades for a rainy economic day. Best regards to everyone!!

 

[dave6666]

Give Dan at Viper Specialty Performance a call before you proceed. He has a package you may be interested in including a great price on the gaskets.

716-912-5336

 

[boozilla2000]

Thanks Dave. Will do. For $800 bucks a piece on the gaskets, I think might start up a gasket company.

 

[JonB]

JonB at Parts Rack wrote some excellent instructions for "burping" 92-93 Viper...BUT, I cannot seem to find them yet...may be buried in archives.

Consider calling him if you can't get Chuck.

Thanks to Steve F for the heads-up on this thread....

You initialy said 'coolant dripping from center-front spoiler'. It was PUKED OUT by air expanding in the motor. The air got in severl ways, including leaking-seeping head gaskets which dont always send coolant to the ground.....

I can help you with the updated head gaskets, in stock at $399/pr delivered; I use a great Viper shop in Milltown, 54858.....and burping instructions afterwards. Can ship Monday......

PS Im ex New-Lisbon / Madison. Moooo.
Thanks JonB

 

[ViperTony]

Thanks Dave. Will do. For $800 bucks a piece on the gaskets, I think might start up a gasket company.

$199.00 . Dan had a group buy on these here recently but his site still lists them for sale. https://www.viperspecialtyperforman...d=163&osCsid=7f2821c540fc4086533d7b7e14bc5673

 

[Viper Wizard]

I also have the gaskets in stock.
Know this, you are buying from the best whoever you chose.