Does anyone know when the Gen 4 will be out?
- Thread starter KenricGTS
- Start date
SRTLEN
Viper Owner
That is the "RUMOR" and will only become truth when officially released by DC. (but it makes for great speculation)
Andrew/USPWR
Enthusiast
I heard early 2007.
2005 Silver SRT/10
2000 Steel Gray GTS (sold)
2005 Silver SRT/10
2000 Steel Gray GTS (sold)
Racer Robbie
Enthusiast
The key word here is RUMOR
ledfoot
Viper Owner
I think the next car will be a Gen 3.5
sween
Enthusiast
I think ledfoot said it best. It should be a freshen up with a new engine. kind of like gen 1 to gen 2
2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
Enthusiast
I have been hearing similar reports of no 2007 from all the major players who sell large quantities of vipers. I called most of them, becasue I was looking to buy/order my 2006 coupe yesterday.
While I trust these more creditable dealers, I remember having my local dealership before I ever bought a viper, tell me that their would be no 2002, because they were ramping up for the 2003 srt-10... he was dead wrong.
So if you are worring about speculation on prices or value of current 2006 cars, I think you are wasting your time... if you want a viper now.. buy one.. if you want to get more power (dont we all), then keep waiting until the badder monster comes out, who knows if it will be next year, or the year after, or if they just cancel the viper line, since now its 3rd place in the big race..
Jon
While I trust these more creditable dealers, I remember having my local dealership before I ever bought a viper, tell me that their would be no 2002, because they were ramping up for the 2003 srt-10... he was dead wrong.
So if you are worring about speculation on prices or value of current 2006 cars, I think you are wasting your time... if you want a viper now.. buy one.. if you want to get more power (dont we all), then keep waiting until the badder monster comes out, who knows if it will be next year, or the year after, or if they just cancel the viper line, since now its 3rd place in the big race..
Jon
I love these posts. To paraphrase a famous quote: "Never has so much been said by so many who know so little." There is one piece of wisdom that you can take to the bank. No one gives any of us a guarantee that we will be around tommorrow to enjoy what we could have enjoyed today. Whatever the next iteration of the Viper may be, it does not exist yet. With that said, let me add my own theory. There is only one reason that seems logical for a plant shutdown of such a long duration other than supplier coordination. Its called robots - installation and testing. If they are going to produce the Firepower and the Viper on the same line, with both sharing many parts, I expect to see the use of robots in the assembly process to increase production capacity and wring a bit more profit out of the vehicles. Hand assembly is time consuming, somewhat inconsistent by its nature, and expensive. If I am right, the 2006 Viper will be the last of the true,limited production hand assembled Vipers. Do I know this is true? No. Have I spoken to anyone about it? No. Has anyone spoken to me about it? No. It is just one possible explanation for the extended plant shutdown.
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
the next car will evolutionary not revolutionary, bigger motor 8.4L, new front facia and hood at a minimum. and from what i know so far it will be a minimum of 560hp. as for release date or production schedule, i can't tell you for sure. But i'd like to think the new car will debut at the next North American International Auto Show(NAIS), January, the debut and production schedule are speculation the other things i have mentioned should prove themselves out in time. i also stated in another thread that there will be no '07 model yr cars although cars will be produced in the calender yr as '06 models
Andrew/USPWR
Enthusiast
I was told it would be called a 2008, but would be out early 2007, and yes more of a revamped GenIII.
2005 Silver SRT/10
2000 Steel Gray GTS (sold)
2005 Silver SRT/10
2000 Steel Gray GTS (sold)
Y2K10 SRT#39
Enthusiast
Bob Tax said it...
Firepower...
Nuf said....
I'll even buy one! (IF I fit!)
PBR
Western DAL!
Firepower...
Nuf said....
I'll even buy one! (IF I fit!)
PBR
Western DAL!
Was CAAP shut down to 'retool' for the Prowler (in '97) ? I don't think so. They still made 2,000+ Prowlers a year on the same line as the Viper ...and with CAAP shut down so much lately (with the effect of slowing production) it would see there is plenty of 'capacity' to build another car on the same line.
So why shut down now? Robots? Maybe, but I would think that Dodge would shoot for making more than 2000 Firepower's a year, I would think they would try to make 5,000 to 10,000 a year...that would seem to be too much for CAAP, maybe they'll just make the Firepower somewhere else?
My opinion is they are shutting down due to an extreme oversupply of already produced cars. From the bits and pieces I have picked up you can still buy a brand new 04 and 05 SRT-10 as Dodge has plenty warehoused ready to go. The thought here is they will try to reduce their inventory before making even more Vipers. After all, Dodge is 'silently' giving dealers a $5,000 or so kickback on selected 06 Viper sales (and even more on 04/05) - obviously in an attempt to move inventory.
Also, aren't there some new, stricter/tougher production regulations kicking in for the 07 MY? (i.e. reason the Ford GT is being discontinued includes these new 'nitrate/nox' emissions standards or something like that)
Here are some links I found regarding this:
(despite the link below having the word "diesel" in it, it does refer to cars too:
http://www.dieselnet.com/news/1999/12epa2.php
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/light.html
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/07a003f45c2973c78525701c005e2740/0b8d5154df6d30a18525684e0077437d!OpenDocument
Thinking here is the Viper motor needs to be recalibrated to accommodate the mandatory Tier 2 EPA requirements...now, why Dodge didn't have this ready "already" would be odd (if true that is) since this standard has been 'known' since 1999.
Bottom line, I don't think it would take them several months to retool a line for the Firepower. Most parts for the Viper are made 'off site' and merely shipped to CAAP for final assembly. So many duties performed while assemblying a Viper seem to defy robotic assistance such as the motor/drivetrain dyno breakin, the water test, the paint polishing and so on. Of course maybe the robots would be for the Firepower, who knows.
I think they will skip 07 and skip a 'restart' next spring and just wait until their backstock is reduced to less than 200 Vipers, might take a year or more...hopefully, in the meantime they will work on some major performance goodies.
-J
So why shut down now? Robots? Maybe, but I would think that Dodge would shoot for making more than 2000 Firepower's a year, I would think they would try to make 5,000 to 10,000 a year...that would seem to be too much for CAAP, maybe they'll just make the Firepower somewhere else?
My opinion is they are shutting down due to an extreme oversupply of already produced cars. From the bits and pieces I have picked up you can still buy a brand new 04 and 05 SRT-10 as Dodge has plenty warehoused ready to go. The thought here is they will try to reduce their inventory before making even more Vipers. After all, Dodge is 'silently' giving dealers a $5,000 or so kickback on selected 06 Viper sales (and even more on 04/05) - obviously in an attempt to move inventory.
Also, aren't there some new, stricter/tougher production regulations kicking in for the 07 MY? (i.e. reason the Ford GT is being discontinued includes these new 'nitrate/nox' emissions standards or something like that)
Here are some links I found regarding this:
(despite the link below having the word "diesel" in it, it does refer to cars too:
http://www.dieselnet.com/news/1999/12epa2.php
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/light.html
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/07a003f45c2973c78525701c005e2740/0b8d5154df6d30a18525684e0077437d!OpenDocument
Thinking here is the Viper motor needs to be recalibrated to accommodate the mandatory Tier 2 EPA requirements...now, why Dodge didn't have this ready "already" would be odd (if true that is) since this standard has been 'known' since 1999.
Bottom line, I don't think it would take them several months to retool a line for the Firepower. Most parts for the Viper are made 'off site' and merely shipped to CAAP for final assembly. So many duties performed while assemblying a Viper seem to defy robotic assistance such as the motor/drivetrain dyno breakin, the water test, the paint polishing and so on. Of course maybe the robots would be for the Firepower, who knows.
I think they will skip 07 and skip a 'restart' next spring and just wait until their backstock is reduced to less than 200 Vipers, might take a year or more...hopefully, in the meantime they will work on some major performance goodies.
-J
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Interesting that since Dodge just recently released the Gen III Coupe people are already looking ahead for the next generation. About the time the next generation is officially released, I expect people to begin salivating about the next model to that.
Dodge seems to have made a commitment to continuously improve our beloved Vipers. I expect this to continue until the car runs its course, and is replace by something else. (Probably have rumors about that also).
Dodge seems to have made a commitment to continuously improve our beloved Vipers. I expect this to continue until the car runs its course, and is replace by something else. (Probably have rumors about that also).
Jeff Lemke
Enthusiast
I've heard oversupply of product as well for the 07 skip.
Keep in mind, DC always tests the waters with a new body design at least a year or more before going to production. If they don't show something at VOI9 or auto show in January this would be the first Viper that they would say "here it is" before getting customer input. A 2008 model would start shipping in oct/nov '07 or so, correct?
If you don't see a show car at these coming soon events, I think these rumors will start to lose their credability.
Keep in mind, DC always tests the waters with a new body design at least a year or more before going to production. If they don't show something at VOI9 or auto show in January this would be the first Viper that they would say "here it is" before getting customer input. A 2008 model would start shipping in oct/nov '07 or so, correct?
If you don't see a show car at these coming soon events, I think these rumors will start to lose their credability.
2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
Enthusiast
Are you sure about that ? Whats your source? Can I get some details?
Thanks.
Jon
slaughterj
Enthusiast
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There are some new front bumper / impact regs coming out ~2007 that I gather will affect the Viper (and was the original reason for the limited run for the Ford GT), necessitating some redesign, and so it makes sense to go ahead and give a HP bump at the same time to pull ahead of the vettes and either even up with or surpass the Ford GT. This is why I got my 05 SRT in December, with a plan for it to be a 3 year car for me, after which everything should shake out with the redesign and plenty of new Vipers will be out to select from (i.e., not hard to get what I want, at a reasonable price).
Andrew/USPWR
Enthusiast
DC has been stockpiling cars in advance of the shutdown.
The Gen 3.5 will be 8.4L, and lighter, with more electronics ... in dealers next summer.
Probably some completely new colors like 'silver' too.
--------------------
This is my feeling as well.
This is why I got my 05 SRT in December, with a plan for it to be a 3 year car for me, after which everything should shake out with the redesign and plenty of new Vipers will be out to select from (i.e., not hard to get what I want, at a reasonable price).
_________________________
I'm with you on that. I can't pay full msrp, but I apreciate the one that do.
2005 Silver SRT/10
2000 Steel Gray GTS (sold)
The Gen 3.5 will be 8.4L, and lighter, with more electronics ... in dealers next summer.
Probably some completely new colors like 'silver' too.
--------------------
This is my feeling as well.
This is why I got my 05 SRT in December, with a plan for it to be a 3 year car for me, after which everything should shake out with the redesign and plenty of new Vipers will be out to select from (i.e., not hard to get what I want, at a reasonable price).
_________________________
I'm with you on that. I can't pay full msrp, but I apreciate the one that do.
2005 Silver SRT/10
2000 Steel Gray GTS (sold)
Yellow in Texas,
I appreciate the fact that DC is the fastest company in the World at bringing out new models, but I politely suggest that having seen the changes to the Plant after the Prowler was discontinued , that a 2 month turn around is not remotely feasible. This shutdown has been planned for a very long time, so all this conjecture and innuendo does nothing but fuel further rumors, instead of realizing it is a well orchestrated change for new and better product/products , we as owners have requested. It is also noted that changes for 2007 are causing some restructures ( key reason the Ford GT will die ), so we need to be more realistic on the time frames before we see a new Snake and other possibilities.
Respectfully Submitted,
Bill Pemberton
I appreciate the fact that DC is the fastest company in the World at bringing out new models, but I politely suggest that having seen the changes to the Plant after the Prowler was discontinued , that a 2 month turn around is not remotely feasible. This shutdown has been planned for a very long time, so all this conjecture and innuendo does nothing but fuel further rumors, instead of realizing it is a well orchestrated change for new and better product/products , we as owners have requested. It is also noted that changes for 2007 are causing some restructures ( key reason the Ford GT will die ), so we need to be more realistic on the time frames before we see a new Snake and other possibilities.
Respectfully Submitted,
Bill Pemberton
MoparMan
Enthusiast
Yellow32 - the new EPA requirements and the fact that the 8.3L would not meet them have been well known for quite some time. The decision was made to engineer a new engine (8.4L) for these requirements and due to the expenditure of NRE (non-recurring engineering) on the new engine, no NRE funds were allocated to upgrades of the current 8.3L. This is why we have seen no improvement in HP or TQ in the gen III at all. Given limited funds, they were faced with the choice of going all-out on the new engine or sacrificing and improving the 8.3L for the short term. I believe when the new car is shown to us at VOI.9 we will all be happy with their decision. As for what generation this car will be, I'm not certain. I've heard two things: (1) it will be based on the ZC platform (the gen III is the ZB platform) and feature new styling, new engine and heavily reworked tranny; (2) it will still be a ZB-based Viper with a freshened front end (partly to accomodate the 8.4L), new engine and heavily reworked tranny.
2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
Enthusiast
Bill,
My understanding is that his other statement about 5k discounts on 2006's is also conjecture. And basically not true. The most I have heard is a possiblity is that the Embassedor coupons got mailed out last month, for 1% off invoice on cars, including the srt-10 convertible, but NOT the srt-10 coupe.
Jon
Ms Viper
Enthusiast
Just enjoy the Viper you have now. Tomorrow is too far off.
Andrew/USPWR
Enthusiast
Just enjoy the Viper you have now. Tomorrow is too far off.
__________________________________________________________
Or just " Love the one your with"
2005 Silver SRT/10
2000 Steel Gray GTS (sold)
__________________________________________________________
Or just " Love the one your with"
2005 Silver SRT/10
2000 Steel Gray GTS (sold)
So,
To summarize,
(I really don't want to be a troublemaker here, just trying to figure out what is going on)
(a)
According to Bill P., CAAP shut down has been planned for quite some time (end of Bill's comment, on to my conclusion so it's natural that Dodge would build up 06 inventory however 06 production is about the same as 05 production as far as I can tell so far, so does not appear to be any special ramp up in inventory going on, especially with the plant being shut down so many weeks this year.
Further - Bill P. I was not speculating at all on when a Gen IV car would appear.
(b)
I have read/heard reasons for CAAP shut down including 'retooling for FirePower' to 'engine/tranny redesign and facia changes' -- perhaps a combination of both or may just one?
(c)
As for dealer discounts by Dodge, check with your dealer, ask them to check with their respective 'Business Center' (Zone Rep) and see what you find out. There's gotta be an explanation for dealers offering cars at 10K off sticker, that's gotta be getting into the holdback of the car (that is, no 'profit' for selling at such a deep discount without an incentive (read: kickback/other incentive) to do so. So, speculative on my part, but, back in Fall of 05 the biggest discount I was offered on an 04 was 7K off sticker. And it's "still" the 06 model year, these deep discounts are on this year's model.
Some pricing examples of 05/06 new Vipers:
Looking around on autotrader.com I found an 06 SRT-10 (vert) available [1B3JZ65Z66V100198] for $75K as long as you qualify for the "EP/EC Discount" (not entirely sure what that is) from a Dodge Dealer.
Found an 06 Coupe [1B3JZ69Z56V100557] with a buy it now price of $77K. (Has 400 miles, dealer has been driving it around).
Also found a brand new (5 miles) 05 Red SRT-10 [1b3jz65z55v501658] for just under $70K from a Dodge Dealer.
Additionally, found an 05 Copperhead for $74.6K [1B3JZ65Z95V502036] from a non-Dodge dealer who claims to have purchased the car " STRAIGHT FROM CHRYSLER NEVER TITLED"
Same non-Dodge dealer also has a 'regular' 05 Black SRT-10 [1B3JZ65Z25V501665] for $70K.
Again, same non-Dodge dealer also has a brand new 06 Coupe (with the nice FirstEdition Wheels)[1B3JZ69ZX6V101123] for $78K - again stating they purchased the car directly from Chrylser - judging by the VIN this car was built in last 3 months!
All the cars above "cannot" be buyback cars due to their respective odometer readings being under 20 miles (except as noted).
(d)
For the first time I read that the updated model (out next year) will have new "electronics" which I read to me "traction control" of one kind or another. Might be that 06 is the best year, get'm while their hot! Of course, the new electronics might be for the "smarter" airbags mandated for 07 model year cars (though Ferrari got an exemption for its 430 for 07 and 08 MYs).
Go Dodge go!
-J
To summarize,
(I really don't want to be a troublemaker here, just trying to figure out what is going on)
(a)
According to Bill P., CAAP shut down has been planned for quite some time (end of Bill's comment, on to my conclusion
so it's natural that Dodge would build up 06 inventory however 06 production is about the same as 05 production as far as I can tell so far, so does not appear to be any special ramp up in inventory going on, especially with the plant being shut down so many weeks this year. Further - Bill P. I was not speculating at all on when a Gen IV car would appear.
(b)
I have read/heard reasons for CAAP shut down including 'retooling for FirePower' to 'engine/tranny redesign and facia changes' -- perhaps a combination of both or may just one?
(c)
As for dealer discounts by Dodge, check with your dealer, ask them to check with their respective 'Business Center' (Zone Rep) and see what you find out. There's gotta be an explanation for dealers offering cars at 10K off sticker, that's gotta be getting into the holdback of the car (that is, no 'profit' for selling at such a deep discount without an incentive (read: kickback/other incentive) to do so. So, speculative on my part, but, back in Fall of 05 the biggest discount I was offered on an 04 was 7K off sticker. And it's "still" the 06 model year, these deep discounts are on this year's model.
Some pricing examples of 05/06 new Vipers:
Looking around on autotrader.com I found an 06 SRT-10 (vert) available [1B3JZ65Z66V100198] for $75K as long as you qualify for the "EP/EC Discount" (not entirely sure what that is) from a Dodge Dealer.
Found an 06 Coupe [1B3JZ69Z56V100557] with a buy it now price of $77K. (Has 400 miles, dealer has been driving it around).
Also found a brand new (5 miles) 05 Red SRT-10 [1b3jz65z55v501658] for just under $70K from a Dodge Dealer.
Additionally, found an 05 Copperhead for $74.6K [1B3JZ65Z95V502036] from a non-Dodge dealer who claims to have purchased the car " STRAIGHT FROM CHRYSLER NEVER TITLED"
Same non-Dodge dealer also has a 'regular' 05 Black SRT-10 [1B3JZ65Z25V501665] for $70K.
Again, same non-Dodge dealer also has a brand new 06 Coupe (with the nice FirstEdition Wheels)[1B3JZ69ZX6V101123] for $78K - again stating they purchased the car directly from Chrylser - judging by the VIN this car was built in last 3 months!
All the cars above "cannot" be buyback cars due to their respective odometer readings being under 20 miles (except as noted).
(d)
For the first time I read that the updated model (out next year) will have new "electronics" which I read to me "traction control" of one kind or another. Might be that 06 is the best year, get'm while their hot! Of course, the new electronics might be for the "smarter" airbags mandated for 07 model year cars (though Ferrari got an exemption for its 430 for 07 and 08 MYs).
Go Dodge go!
-J
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