vipzilla
Viper Owner
what are my options on a gen1 im being told daves big brake kit doesnt fit gen1 give me some options guys!!!!
gen 1 big brakes
- Thread starter vipzilla
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KNG SNKE
Enthusiast
Doesn't fit because of your wheels right?
vipzilla
Viper Owner
no i just spoke with john b he says it doesnt fit on gen 1
vipzilla
Viper Owner
anyone????
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
RedEnuf93
Enthusiast
Drive slower???
About 1.5 years ago Dave did send me some test parts and I confirmed the fitment on my gen 1. He was working on the kit. Looks like it never materialized. I would go with Tom's kit in that case...
About 1.5 years ago Dave did send me some test parts and I confirmed the fitment on my gen 1. He was working on the kit. Looks like it never materialized. I would go with Tom's kit in that case...
viper067
Enthusiast
vipzilla
Viper Owner
yes but how much of a difrence in braking do you see is it a big noticible diff .. if 80 to 90% of braking is done by the front how big of a difrence will it be by improving the rear brakes???
eucharistos
Enthusiast
+1 tom's
viper067
Enthusiast
I'll let you know as soon as I get my car back from the body shop and install them. I'm almost certain that if I had Tom's brakes it would never have had to make the journey there. That may seem like a pretty steep statement, but in all my research I haven't found a single bad word about the upgrade. BTW, this minor damage to the hood and bumper ends up pricing out around $12,000, while insurance takes care of most of that, it doesn't do anything for the withdrawal symptoms of not having the car for a month. I keep stopping by the shop to see how it is going, parts are being painted now, and reassembly beings on Saturday. The guys there can't wait to get it back together and fire up the engine again...even in pieces the car has a fan club
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Green Viper
Enthusiast
One of our members had Tom's 40mm brake upgrade on his 96RT/10 and it worked very well! It was almost as good at track days as my full Dave's big brake upgrade kit, the bias is nearly perfect!
I did swap parts between Gen1 & Gen2 numerous times so I think the issue holding you back from a full brake upgrade kit is the 17" wheels so if you go with 18" OEMs or aftermarket you should be fine.
I did swap parts between Gen1 & Gen2 numerous times so I think the issue holding you back from a full brake upgrade kit is the 17" wheels so if you go with 18" OEMs or aftermarket you should be fine.
TexasPettey
Enthusiast
I went through this with my Gen1 using Dave's kit. The issue is that there are a set of ears on the mounting bracket for the Gen3 calipers that won't fit with the Gen1 knuckle assembly. Dave was a great guy. When I walked through the issues with him, he sent me one of his earlier prototype brackets that was pure rectangle. I would bet that you could cut the tabs off the Gen2 bracket for his kit and get to the same thing I have.
Additionally, you'll need to grind down small sections of the knucle. There are mounting tabs that are circular but need to be square. Not hard to do.
Back side of assembly from Gen1. Note the circular cut outs where the calipers are mounted. These will need to be ground square.
The Gen2 bracket from the kit on a Gen1. Note that this shows the rectagluar block and how is hits the circular cut outs from the above picture.
This is the Gen2 bracket with the main mounting bolts that attach it to the knuckle. The other two 'ears' also mount into the assembly. However, they really are there as a CYA. The main bolts are the two shown below. The bracket Dave sent me doesn't have the extra 2 'rounded' ears. The holes on those ears will not line up.
Additionally, you'll need to grind down small sections of the knucle. There are mounting tabs that are circular but need to be square. Not hard to do.
Back side of assembly from Gen1. Note the circular cut outs where the calipers are mounted. These will need to be ground square.
The Gen2 bracket from the kit on a Gen1. Note that this shows the rectagluar block and how is hits the circular cut outs from the above picture.
This is the Gen2 bracket with the main mounting bolts that attach it to the knuckle. The other two 'ears' also mount into the assembly. However, they really are there as a CYA. The main bolts are the two shown below. The bracket Dave sent me doesn't have the extra 2 'rounded' ears. The holes on those ears will not line up.
TexasPettey
Enthusiast
As additional info, here is what you'll see if you line up the Gen2 mounting bracket on the Gen1 knuckle and wheel bearing assembly. This is before grinding down the rounded portion on the knuckle assembly. You can see that the bracket needs to move about 1/4" to the right in the picture to mount up with the Gen1 assembly.
The subsequent problem is that the bolts to mount the wheel bearing hub won't line up. However, those tabs can be cut off the kit. They really aren't needed. Since Dave sent me one of his earlier protos without those tabs, I didn't have to cut. I can't confirm the strength of the metal with regards to cutting.
The subsequent problem is that the bolts to mount the wheel bearing hub won't line up. However, those tabs can be cut off the kit. They really aren't needed. Since Dave sent me one of his earlier protos without those tabs, I didn't have to cut. I can't confirm the strength of the metal with regards to cutting.
TexasPettey
Enthusiast
The first level question is what you are looking to do with a brake upgrade. On the street, big front brakes on a Gen1 will not do much for you. The reason is that the fronts will lock up already on most street tires with the stock brakes. Without ABS, you'll just lock up earlier. You really need warm tires or a lot of speed to get a benefit out of the bigger fronts. If you're hitting the track, you'll notice a difference with bigger fronts. You'll also want a cooling kit to go along with those bigger fronts, because more brake will generate a lot more heat.
Tom's kit is a very good upgrade, especially on a Gen1. I'd do it either way. The reason is that you'd like to maximize the braking on all 4 tires. The rear tires on a Gen1 are far from locking up under most circumstances. Doing Tom's kit is an easy way to increase the rear braking. You could also try out a proportioning valve for increasing the rear bias, but I'd start with Tom's kit.
I had Tom's 40mm rear caliper piston upgrade on my 98 GTS with lighweight Erardispeed/Stop-tech rotors and EBS 'Reds'. It worked great.
My guess is that the factory set up the brakes for the front to lock-up quickly and set the gen1 and 2 Vipers so that the rear wouldn't lock up at all. Upgrading to Tom's calipers is a huge improvement and I feel completes the balance of the car. There is a huge difference after Tom's upgrade.
Leslie and myself upgraded our front brakes to 14" from Roe Racing. Leslie runs stock steel rotors and that requires spacers with her stock 18" wheels. My Roe Racing lighweight rotors do not require the use of spacers and both the stock and my Forgeline VR1 wheels fit great. Leslie and I have 01 GTSs that came with larger piston ABS rear calipers.
I recommend Tom's rear caliper piston upgrade first and then a 14" upgrade for the front. Both upgrades can be easily felt when installed. There are many threads on brakes on this site.
If you check Tom's website he has actaul distance graphs showing the difference with upgrades. Excellent information.
Ted
My guess is that the factory set up the brakes for the front to lock-up quickly and set the gen1 and 2 Vipers so that the rear wouldn't lock up at all. Upgrading to Tom's calipers is a huge improvement and I feel completes the balance of the car. There is a huge difference after Tom's upgrade.
Leslie and myself upgraded our front brakes to 14" from Roe Racing. Leslie runs stock steel rotors and that requires spacers with her stock 18" wheels. My Roe Racing lighweight rotors do not require the use of spacers and both the stock and my Forgeline VR1 wheels fit great. Leslie and I have 01 GTSs that came with larger piston ABS rear calipers.
I recommend Tom's rear caliper piston upgrade first and then a 14" upgrade for the front. Both upgrades can be easily felt when installed. There are many threads on brakes on this site.
If you check Tom's website he has actaul distance graphs showing the difference with upgrades. Excellent information.
Ted
vipzilla
Viper Owner
so if i get the srt front calipers to mount up on my car and get toms on the rear i should be all set
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I recommend the Gen 3 (14") front brake kit, 4 lightweight rotors and Tom's rear cliper upgrade with EBC Reds or similar. Stock Gen 1 & 2 brakes are 13".
The lightweight rotors all around probably don't make enough difference to 'feel' but they do make a significant difference as well as lightening the car 40#.
If you're street driving that would be the Ultimate in stopping. Front 14" brake KIT should come with Stainless Steel braided hoses and an adapter is needed to bolt the SRT calipers to the car. Add a set of SS lines for the rear and you're good to go against the best.
Ted
The lightweight rotors all around probably don't make enough difference to 'feel' but they do make a significant difference as well as lightening the car 40#.
If you're street driving that would be the Ultimate in stopping. Front 14" brake KIT should come with Stainless Steel braided hoses and an adapter is needed to bolt the SRT calipers to the car. Add a set of SS lines for the rear and you're good to go against the best.
Ted
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as you can see from this picture, there is a massive difference in rotors and calipers. The brake pads have a much larger surface area for the Gen 3 brakes. Slotted rotors perform better than smooth as do the crossdrilled and slotted. The crossdrilled and slotted are best for the street, but can crack if used on the track.
Hope this helps you decide.
Ted
Early93Viper
Enthusiast
I have Tom's 40mm brake upgrade kit and EBC Yellow brake pads. On the track I just Love the combo works good on the street as well.
Here's me out braking a new Nissan GTR with Tom's 40mm brake upgrade kit:
Nissian GTR VS VIPER - Car Videos on StreetFire
Here's me out braking a new Nissan GTR with Tom's 40mm brake upgrade kit:
Nissian GTR VS VIPER - Car Videos on StreetFire
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
Here is exactly how much difference there will be:
40mm Performance
Plus you have two "experts" that can provide independent comments (not that the ones on this page aren't valued!) Chuck Tator (Viper Wizard) and Jon Brobst (JonB) both have installed new rear calipers on their personally owned Vipers. They know all about brake options and went with the OEM front/40mm rear system. Already passed 150 pairs sold.
PM me if you have questions or my other contact info is on the website.
FastZilla
Enthusiast
Here's the route I went with my `94
http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/633495-1994-rt-10-stoptech-brake-install.html
http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/633495-1994-rt-10-stoptech-brake-install.html
BAKSPEED23
Enthusiast
Not sure if you’re still on here, but was curious to know how your Gen 1 turned out, as I’m trying to find out if I can find Dave’s kit, as well as if it will work.. Thanks in advance.I went through this with my Gen1 using Dave's kit. The issue is that there are a set of ears on the mounting bracket for the Gen3 calipers that won't fit with the Gen1 knuckle assembly. Dave was a great guy. When I walked through the issues with him, he sent me one of his earlier prototype brackets that was pure rectangle. I would bet that you could cut the tabs off the Gen2 bracket for his kit and get to the same thing I have.
Additionally, you'll need to grind down small sections of the knucle. There are mounting tabs that are circular but need to be square. Not hard to do.
Back side of assembly from Gen1. Note the circular cut outs where the calipers are mounted. These will need to be ground square.
The Gen2 bracket from the kit on a Gen1. Note that this shows the rectagluar block and how is hits the circular cut outs from the above picture.
This is the Gen2 bracket with the main mounting bolts that attach it to the knuckle. The other two 'ears' also mount into the assembly. However, they really are there as a CYA. The main bolts are the two shown below. The bracket Dave sent me doesn't have the extra 2 'rounded' ears. The holes on those ears will not line up.
