mnc2886
Enthusiast
Very impressive, but you know what is next right?
Gen V conversion!!
Gen V conversion!!
Gen III to Gen IV Engine Build
- Thread starter Nader
- Start date
Haha, I guess we will have to wait and see! If I was to take a wild guess, I would say that the Gen-5 components will probably either not be different enough to bother in many respects, or be so different that it is not cost effective. The Gen-4 with a few minor tweaks and a few more cubes could easily produce the numbers they are throwing around, and it is still a relatively advanced powerplant even by today's standards. We lucked out on the Gen-4 in this regard as it "added everything we wanted, and none of what we didn't". However, if the Gen-5 is based around Direct Injection, Cylinder Deactivation, or other similar technologies that take up physical space or change fundamental layouts with regard to engine design, it is likely that the new components will not be as friendly towards conversions anymore.
Also on that topic, since Mopar brought out a variation of the Gen-4 conversion themselves, I think that does point towards the previous being the case. They could easily have waited a year and done the same thing with a "Gen-5 conversion" and had a longer shelf-life of high-volume current production parts if they had wanted to, but they instead chose to use the Gen-4 components, which are not new/current model production parts.
Also on that topic, since Mopar brought out a variation of the Gen-4 conversion themselves, I think that does point towards the previous being the case. They could easily have waited a year and done the same thing with a "Gen-5 conversion" and had a longer shelf-life of high-volume current production parts if they had wanted to, but they instead chose to use the Gen-4 components, which are not new/current model production parts.
highsierrahillbilly
Viper Owner
Nader,
Your build looks real good! If I may ask "?" can you give us a ball park price range of the overall cost?
High Sierra Hill Billy
Your build looks real good! If I may ask "?" can you give us a ball park price range of the overall cost?
High Sierra Hill Billy
I would prefer you talk to Dan directly as my build was based on Dan's Gen IV conversion but I chose to go custom with many of the options.
Ok some more Viper ***********.... Throttle body test fitted.
Next up is custom throttle butterfly, main shaft, cable assembly and end plates. Once the throttle setup is done, Dan will be fabricating custom intake tubes also. The throttle bodies were the most significant custom build in this application so we are thinking the build should be nearing completion soon.
Next up is custom throttle butterfly, main shaft, cable assembly and end plates. Once the throttle setup is done, Dan will be fabricating custom intake tubes also. The throttle bodies were the most significant custom build in this application so we are thinking the build should be nearing completion soon.
I have a feeling it's going to be pretty dirty after the build. Good thing you know those guys at Synergy!
Haha, you wish- the car is covered and spotless!
That's just how we roll
Somewhat off-topic, but the one thing I was telling Tom yesterday, is that if he decides to go Twin Turbo at some point in the future, he has literally the best starting point I can think of. Toss a built short-block on this car, and ******** the TT system & drivetrain. As far as the engine goes, he is pretty much ideal from start to finish on the upper end for a Twin Turbo setup. The heads are free-flowing & have a high-revving valvetrain inherent to Gen-4, ported manifold design from Gen-4, higher-energy coil system, oil system upgrades, and even the front portion of a full fuel system. Hell, even the throttle bodies were developed with Twin Turbo in mind, with regard to their size and high-pressure O-ring sealed clamp flanges.
And I don't have to tell anyone how it looks!
And I don't have to tell anyone how it looks!
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Yes-
-A few minor do-dads were added since then.
-The throttle bodies are supposed to be done in the mill today [There were four in production, not two- they have different mill finishes to see what looks better]
-Another machine shop is working on the throttle body internals right now.
-The car has already been started and run with the use of G4 throttles being held shut, just for testing purposes in the mean time.
Tom can post pictures and any other info when he feels like it...
-A few minor do-dads were added since then.
-The throttle bodies are supposed to be done in the mill today [There were four in production, not two- they have different mill finishes to see what looks better]
-Another machine shop is working on the throttle body internals right now.
-The car has already been started and run with the use of G4 throttles being held shut, just for testing purposes in the mean time.
Tom can post pictures and any other info when he feels like it...
I have pics of the throttle bodies which incidentally are like fine jewelry. Dan also installed shift light behind the factory passenger seat belt indicator. Can't notice it at all but once it lights up you can't miss it. Even more impressive Dan was also able to maintain the functionality of the seat belt light.
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Okay finally I have a good update. While waiting for the throttle bodies i had Dan install a shift light. I wanted it stealth so decided to install it behind the passenger airbag light. Dan did some amazing work installing it. Looks factory and was able to retain the factory airbag light and its functionality.
Good news is the throttle bodies are back. Thank god. This are completely custom and the first four of its kind... They allow the use of a genIV intake which flows much better than a genIII while retaining the mechanical throttle body configuration. Dan ran two sets in two different finishes. Dan can describe it best but from what I can see and have heard the finish was based upon the milling process. One was fine cut and the other a bit coarser. You can see the difference in the second pic below.
I am struggling which one i like best. I am leaning toward the coarse milling as opposed to the fine. Since these are the first of its kind and the pinnacle of the build which makes it truly unique, I think the coarse ones give them some BLING. JUDGE FOR YOURSELF. I am interested in hearing opinions.
Fine Milling....
Coarse Milling...
Either way the finished product will be truly amazing..
Final pieces are the butterflies, throttle shaft which will connect both together and allow them to work in unison. Also dan can now begin fabricating the intake tubes connecting the throttle to the factory GenIV air box. We are 95% there.
Good news is the throttle bodies are back. Thank god. This are completely custom and the first four of its kind... They allow the use of a genIV intake which flows much better than a genIII while retaining the mechanical throttle body configuration. Dan ran two sets in two different finishes. Dan can describe it best but from what I can see and have heard the finish was based upon the milling process. One was fine cut and the other a bit coarser. You can see the difference in the second pic below.
I am struggling which one i like best. I am leaning toward the coarse milling as opposed to the fine. Since these are the first of its kind and the pinnacle of the build which makes it truly unique, I think the coarse ones give them some BLING. JUDGE FOR YOURSELF. I am interested in hearing opinions.
Fine Milling....
Coarse Milling...
Either way the finished product will be truly amazing..
Final pieces are the butterflies, throttle shaft which will connect both together and allow them to work in unison. Also dan can now begin fabricating the intake tubes connecting the throttle to the factory GenIV air box. We are 95% there.
InjectTheVenom
Enthusiast
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This being such a top quality build it begs for the fine cut throttle bodies, much better looking.
To be honest, I am on the fence myself. The fine milling does look great, but the coarse grabs your eyes, as the tool marks resemble rows of diamonds. The fine does as well, but you have to get closer to see it. The big difference I guess is the fine looks "refined", while the coarse screams "Hey! Over here! Billet Throttle Bodies! LOOK AT ME!"
So far as "quality" is concerned, the only difference is the step-over [spacing between passes] it has no effect on pricing, mill time to speak of, or function, etc.
So far as "quality" is concerned, the only difference is the step-over [spacing between passes] it has no effect on pricing, mill time to speak of, or function, etc.
Tom and Dan - this is looking SICK! I can't wait to see it.
Tom, if the weather is good by the time it's ready to go we should have a NY/CT tour/caravan to drive you up there to pick it up and drive it back! We could crash one night near buffalo and drive back the next. As long as the weather is nice (and you have a good radar detector) rt17 (now 86) is a great trip in a Viper with all the hills and curves! Nothing like the L.I.E., that's for sure!
Tom, if the weather is good by the time it's ready to go we should have a NY/CT tour/caravan to drive you up there to pick it up and drive it back! We could crash one night near buffalo and drive back the next. As long as the weather is nice (and you have a good radar detector) rt17 (now 86) is a great trip in a Viper with all the hills and curves! Nothing like the L.I.E., that's for sure!
I can see what you are saying... Dan swears by the look of the coarse milled in person and certainly trust his opinion. Either way it is going to be tough decision. Once the intake tubes are fabricated I think that will help me decide... Thanks for your input.
Ed I like that idea. In fact if everyone does the drive you can witness the car getting its final tune and its primary dyno run. We are thinking around the second week in April. Maybe Dan can put an event together.... He can at least show you the other car he is building that is using the entire power train from a GenIV with twin turbos... Dan any ideas?
madninjaskillz
Enthusiast
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beautiful looking build. I bet you are ready to get it on the street. Thanks for all of the progress pics.
Not just no, but HELLLLLLLL no. You would ruin the surface finish by going to a type 3 anodizing, and be doing it on an item that sees zero wear to begin with. Anodizing dulls finishes greatly, especially type 3, which only comes clear and various shades of bronze to almost black. Not to mention, it would not match a thing in the engine compartment.
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While it could be remotely possible, I would say it has a near zero chance of success with the weather this time of the year, and coordinating everyone else at the same time. Also, the car will be tuned in advance, especially for something of this sort. No way I am going to have any hiccups on tuning while everyone is waiting for it to be done. Running it on a Dyno isn't a problem- but again, we rent a dyno around here, so we would be at the mercy of HIM as well... and that's not the easiest thing.
Overall, it just spells potential disaster; there are too many things out of my control with how I currently am operating, and this time of the year especially. You guys have to keep it mind, our new building is NOT up yet, and until it is, things are waaaaay overcomplicated around here. I would prefer to keep everything low-key until there is a centralized location to accommodate more people without it being a mess. Just as an example, seeing where I do the work, where I tune the cars, and where the cars are stored- would require three different trips, lol.
I would say save the trip until there is something BIG to see worth the drive, and we could actually accommodate you guys in the way that I feel is proper with both a central location, and some kind of an event or similar option with some additional local influence.
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That sounds fun. The ride up there was amazing when I dropped the car off.
I figured I would revive my thread since we are now coming toward the end of the build. Dan now has the throttle bodies milled as well as all the miscellaneous parts for final assembly. I am going to put Dan on the watch and say that within the next two weeks you will see the finished product and a really impressive power curve!!!
I am sure Dan will chime in with some comments....
I am sure Dan will chime in with some comments....
Richie7
Viper Owner
Excellent!!!! Cant wait to see it
Well...
I haven't had a chance to post this:
Or assemble these:
Because I have been in Michigan helping build the wiring harness for THIS:
Its a work in progress... had to go back and remove/redo much of the wiring or temporary wiring installed by the other shop. Should be a hell of a cool car when it is all done.
I haven't had a chance to post this:
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Or assemble these:
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Because I have been in Michigan helping build the wiring harness for THIS:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Its a work in progress... had to go back and remove/redo much of the wiring or temporary wiring installed by the other shop. Should be a hell of a cool car when it is all done.
