Gen V Drag Strip Results & C7 Corvette

ferraritoviper

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The assumption that SRT does not look at our forums is not correct. It is a normal part of the marketing function. There is value in knowing how and what we think about the Gen V and it helps detect any problems that might occur under unanticipated circumstances.

With all due respect Bob, to someone who has posted here over 5000 times in 13 years, I'd say if SRT marketing, or any other section of the SRT group is watching this forum, then where is their interaction and positive input, directly or through surrogates? As you've seen from my Prefix thread, I am a staunch supporter of SRT...and Mark Trostle etc. This forum pains me, and I can only guess that SRT's silence is an indication of the same. No matter what they say or do, they will be torn apart by the negative bags here.

After having their market dept torn to pieces (especially by that strange 'theviper' ****), they attempt an idea to promote Viper with the Blue color contest...and they still get ripped to shreds by the majority of you...and those bags don't even own a gen v, and are probably lucky to afford a used Ford Flex!

Nineball, JackB, ViperSmith, Venom V, Peerblock, and a few others...why the **** are we ******* into the wind here????????????? Lets just wait a few days for the squared away VOA to be up NOV first...or so :), not to mention, how the **** do you guys even acknowlegde the existence thru replys/quotes of that **** hammer****, along with all the other wanna be's??????????
 

DMan

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Compared to other completely stock C7 Z51 times, which were 11.6-11.7 with 1.7X 60 ft times, looks like the tune gave him a quarter second and about 3-4mph.

You know, my gen4 has no issues with burn outs or dynos, I really am thinking at this I'm just gonna sit this out til SRT either gets their act together or I can no longer resist something else.

I'm beginning to feel like the gen5 forum should be renamed to the C7 forum. It does more to promote the vette than the gen5. Geez.
 

Bobpantax

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I think that there has been a basic rethinking about how SRT will be communicating online in a club environment. The monitoring function does not have to involve any comments. Also, just because we have not yet seen any significant marketing changes, does not mean that SRT is not working on same. Change requires time, planning and implementation. One of the side effects of social media and the Internet is that too many people have lost any sense of reasonable expectations regarding the time it takes to do something. This post is not just in response to your post.


With all due respect Bob, to someone who has posted here over 5000 times in 13 years, I'd say if SRT marketing, or any other section of the SRT group is watching this forum, then where is their interaction and positive input, directly or through surrogates? As you've seen from my Prefix thread, I am a staunch supporter of SRT...and Mark Trostle etc. This forum pains me, and I can only guess that SRT's silence is an indication of the same. No matter what they say or do, they will be torn apart by the negative bags here.

After having their market dept torn to pieces (especially by that strange 'theviper' ****), they attempt an idea to promote Viper with the Blue color contest...and they still get ripped to shreds by the majority of you...and those bags don't even own a gen v, and are probably lucky to afford a used Ford Flex!

Nineball, JackB, ViperSmith, Venom V, Peerblock, and a few others...why the **** are we ******* into the wind here????????????? Lets just wait a few days for the squared away VOA to be up NOV first...or so :), not to mention, how the **** do you guys even acknowlegde the existence thru replys/quotes of that **** hammer****, along with all the other wanna be's??????????
 

emericr

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Interesting info and thanks for reporting this . Electronic nannies are getting everywhere and it is annoying for gearheads like us.
Impressive for the vette with just a tune to get to 11.5. The new auto trannies are amazing and the manual shifting is dying.
 

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE

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I finally had an opportunity to take the new Viper to the drag strip, Royal Purple Raceway in Houston. I had read a few posts/feedback from others like JackB, who have taken their Gen 5 Vipers to the track, where it was mentioned that the clutch didn't like slipping off the line, and that burnouts could cause the car to go into reduced power mode. I experienced both, for myself.

My first pass was the best pass. I made 2 other clean passes later, but in reduced power mode. The car never felt fast the entire night, indicated by the lower than normal trap speeds. It just felt slow, all the way down the track. I've made a lot of hits in this car, out on the streets, and I can tell the difference right away if things feel off.

Details:

2013 SRT Viper w/ Track Pack
ESC and TCS off
5000 rpm launch (clutch roasted on this)
3505 lbs raceweight (driver 180 lbs)
DA = +650'
1.82 60'
7.44 @ 96.47 mph 1/8-mile
11.43 @ 124.34 mph 1/4-mile

http://youtu.be/J-fTB_krD_8

The other two passes, the car only trapped 122 and 120. As DA got better, the car ran slower. It was clear that something was holding back the power after that first burnout I made. It didn't seem to clear up until I was about 20 minutes into driving home, after some highway miles.

Some notes to share about the car, even though I only have 3 runs of experience with it.

-The clutch isn't ideal for drag racing. It reminds me of the stock Corvette Z06 clutch, light pedal pressure and does not like any sort of heat. Once the clutch gets hot, from trying to launch it, it will not disengage properly, and it will slip on the 2-3 shift. It also has the same heat related issues with the hydraulic system, causing the pedal to get spongy. Clamping force feels okay, but not the friction material. I may have someone upgrade my clutch disks to a ceramic/bronze puck arrangement, sort of like the Bad Boyz Garage clutch. Those clutches laugh at heat, and almost grab better when they are hot.

-First gear in this transmission is too tall. It is cool for magazine racers that they can get 0-60 in one gear, but it isn't good for drag racing. You need a lot of rpm to get this car off the line, assuming you have the tire traction. I tried dumping at 4600 rpm and the car bogged hard enough for me to abort one pass. The 5000 rpm dump worked, but my drag radials held better than the clutch did. That was with 31 psi in the tires! I was on 345/30-19 Nitto drag radials, so a similar to stock height tire. Running on stock tires would have been easier on the clutch, but also a trade-off in traction.

-We really need to figure out why these Gen 5 cars lose power after doing 1 dyno run, and apparently after doing burnouts. I had the ESC and TCS turned off each time, yet it still went into reduced power mode. This is unacceptable. I can't jump out of the car after doing a burnout and pull ECM wire harnesses, like SRT showed in their dyno video. What the **** is that all about?

-The car didn't like doing 2nd gear burnouts, even in the wet portion of the box. Brakes were too good, haha. It wouldn't put down enough torque to keep from stalling out. 1st gear burnouts worked like a charm, however.

-The car did show wheel-hop on the later two passes, but that is likely due to the track prep going away as the night went on. It was just a normal test & tune night. I lift when wheel-hop is felt, as that can cause damage to the rear. I blame that one on track prep though. Stock tires would have been worse, in that situation.

So, I learned a lot in 3 runs. Good for mental notes. I plan on trying it again during a track rental day on Nov 3, where I'll be able to get many more passes. I may opt to run on my street tires that day. It will take perfect weather, good track, and, and figuring out why the car goes into reduced power mode, before we see 10s out of these cars.

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As seen in the photos, there were two brand new 2014 Corvettes at the track. Although we never raced side by side, we did get some back to back runs. The automatic trans C7's are no joke at the dragstrip. The red C7 (Edit: has a custom dyno tune) ran an 11.73 @ 118 (1.74 60') right behind me. He later went 11.67, and then after a very long cool-down and pushing it into the water box, it clicked off an 11.47 @ 121, once the DA hit +250 around 11pm. That is a new record for C7s. I know the owner, the car is stock other than a tune, and is a non-Z51 base model automatic. There is something really cool about how they launch, the almost seem to have a higher stall converter on the initial bite, then once the car moves out a few feet, the converter locks up and the tires haze a tiny bit. It consistently cut 1.7 times on the stock tires, regardless of how the track prep went downhill. They are also geared perfectly for the 1/4-mile, hitting the top of 3rd gear at the finish line. The blue C7 (no custom tune) went 12.52 @ 118, spinning off the line. It later went 11.8 from what I was told. It appears GM did their homework with the automatic C7's. They are solid 11 second cars.

Tony





Nine Ball and all interested Viper owners,

Our BBG Gen 5 Competition Clutch Kit is done!! If you didn't already know your running a Bad Boyzz Garage style billet flywheel in your G5 right now with of course a G4 clutch pack. **** Winkles asked me to build the proto-type flywheels during the G5 engine development program about 2 years ago. The decision was made to choose us (BBG) since we proved to Winkles, DMS and SRT over the course of several Viper Cup race seasons that our ACR-X billet clutch kits were far superior than the stock OE steel units. SRT was looking to shed about 125 lbs off the G5 Viper and we gave them -11 lbs of rotating mass right off.. Dam near 10% of their goal before even getting started on the frame structure, body panels and other driveline components.. This was huge to SRT engineering and also gave the G5 V10 a performance advantage by free-ing up it's power output to complement its new camshaft design, valve train improvements, intake manifold, newly geared transmission and rear diff ratio's..

Our BBG G5 Competition Clutch Kits are a newly designed "Deep Dish" billet flywheel with our race proven ACR-X dual clutch discs and our quiet strapped floater specification..!! This new G5 clutch kit has the correct rotating mass to operate / run in the parameters of the new G5's PCM.. After all it's our BBG units that SRT used to develop G5 so we share the same internal mathematics as SRT..

To all G5 owners who plan on road racing and drag racing your Viper's please give us a call @ (916) 505-9026, we have the solution to your clutch issues!! 4000 rpm and drop the hammer is the typical starting technique that the ACR-X Viper's used through-out the SRT Viper Cup race series "standing starts" with our clutch kits and the only issue they had was how to keep the massive Michelin slicks from going up in smoke..:D

BTW - Nice drag racing data in your post Nine Ball..:2tu:

Thank for considering running a BBG product!

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE
Toddy Gomez
1337 North Market Blvd. Ste 100
Sacramento, Ca 95834
[email protected]
(916) 505-9026

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=:usa:

Here's a few photo's of our BBG G5 Comp Clutch Kit..













 
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FLL-B/W-GTS

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That was one run that went 11.17 at Palm Beach,most of the others were 11.40s to 11.70s.That car ran good, but bogged bad off the line. Was there. One thing for sure, the Gen.5 looks outstanding...
 

Tom Welch

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Nine Ball,

Thanks for the very informative post! Hopefully weather permitting and I can get back home from Asia before Friday, I will take my 2013 to the track. After reading your post, I think I will pull all of the ECU plugs and replug after each run, just for the **** of it. There are (5) total fuses that I can see, that are interfaced in some way with ABS/ECS but which one to pull is the right one without doing damage or creating some kind of permenant CEL. If I can't get it running better I will dump it. Nothing worse then being heckled for making a poor choice of exotic car purchase in front of friends and co-racers.

It really does **** that we get no factory performance support for the amount of money we spent. I'd like to shove the ECU either up Ralphs **** or into the ALMS Series Vipers SRT is racing and let them get embarrassed in front of a worldwide audience. Maybe then, someone will step up and admit a problem and mandate a cure. Until then, we are no more then a toothless homeowners association trying to force the developer to mow the easments!

This whole experience makes me want to dump my Viper and get a Vette. My 1997 Viper will kick this 2013 **** anywhere!

Thats how i really feel!

Anyone at SRT with ***** and/or brains want to talk about it? I've been a VCA Member, Viper owner and community supporter since 1999 and my number is 706-745-4888! I'm not hiding.

Tom
 

TrackAire

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George, excellent post. We may be on to something, knowing that info about the Gen 4. I could see how the computer might not like the brake + accelerator. Might be as simple as disabling the brake light switch on the pedal, for track visits. I did not attempt any non-burnout runs, due to us having to drive through the waterbox. Out on the street, the car has zero issues taking off from a stop. I'm certain it is the burnout or dyno actions causing this low power, whenever rear wheels are spinning and fronts are not. Pulling the ABS fuse (if it exists) might also be an option, as you really wouldn't need it at the drag strip.



Mine has done this. Some people even mentioned it happening last night. I swear my foot never touches the brake pedal during a shift, I even had my racing shoes on. I'm not even grazing the brake pedal, but my brake lights will flash sometimes during a shift. Thinking the clutch pedal might be making the brake light trigger, maybe a vibration? Weird. The pedals look identical to my Gen 3, and it never had that issue.

Tony,

Regarding the brake lights coming on during a shift, is this visible only on video or by the ***** eye? If only on video, I think the issue would be the effect the LED tail lights cause to the camera because of the speed differential during the shifts. If it is visible by the ***** eye, then that may be something else entirely and a overly sensitive brake light switch, etc may be the cause. Who knows if this is causing any other pcm issues. :dunno:

You may also want to just pull the fuse for the actual tail lights. It may be as simple as that electronic signal is enough to trigger the issue with the PCM and the de-powering. Good luck.

George
 

Nine Ball

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Tony,

Regarding the brake lights coming on during a shift, is this visible only on video or by the ***** eye? If only on video, I think the issue would be the effect the LED tail lights cause to the camera because of the speed differential during the shifts. If it is visible by the ***** eye, then that may be something else entirely and a overly sensitive brake light switch, etc may be the cause. Who knows if this is causing any other pcm issues. :dunno:

You may also want to just pull the fuse for the actual tail lights. It may be as simple as that electronic signal is enough to trigger the issue with the PCM and the de-powering. Good luck.

George

Definitely seen by the eye. Even on some passes I've made in the daylight, when the lights are turned off, the tails would flicker during a shift. LOL if we have to install a disable brake pedal switch to make these things run.
 

ViperSmith

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Tony, perhaps toss a gopro on the rear to capture the brake lights and do a run, see if it blinks at your shift points, not just the first
 

FikseGTS

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good write up... while I didn't have the power pulling issue, I did get the hot clutch and 2-3 lockout.... this was after many passes though, not just a couple like you did....

get some shorter tires for the rental and that should help the bog... I was getting 1.7x and still bogging..

the blue C7 ran in the 11's stock??







Only 1 car has been tested at an actual strip, it was the white one on drag radials that went 11.1 @ 128. That was a manufacturer plate vehicle. The magazine guys typically do not use a drag strip, they just use GPS timers on private roads or pavement. That is another reason magazine times aren't that accurate.
 

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE

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Great info from all, Federal Law mandates that TCS is required on all vehicles 2013 forward, so when Chrysler says all you have to do is press a button and the TCS is turned off,?, while federal law still mandates it, makes one think its still on monitoring / working but in a highly desensitized mode.. Bottom line it's still a 1st generation TCS for Viper and obviously it's not perfect.. They know this and open discussion publicly is probably frowned upon internally by the higher ups. Hopefully SRT may be learning a lot on the GTS-R road race program and will share the info on the G5 TCS ?? One thing for sure, the stock G5 clutch can't handle 5000 rpm pedal drops!! We fixed the problem for Chrysler in the ACR-X Vipers and our new BBG competition clutch kits are the solution to the current G5 problem!!

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE

Toddy
=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=:usa:
 
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Jack B

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Tell me more about your clutch, including the cost. This sounds like a good winter project.

Just to add credence to Nine Ball's experience. I was at the track with the G5 on a day where the DA was 3500. Mile per hour does not lie, it is a true indicator of HP. I have a shift light on the G5 and usually every run is consistent. In 2012 with my G2 I had over ten runs in a row within .05 seconds and within 1/2 mph. THe only time the mph changed was on a different track or where the DA changed. My G2 was consistent 127-129.X depending on the concitions.

On the day with a DA of 3500 the first run was 120 mph. I only had three more runs, however, the last two were 127.2. That is a huge diff in HP. Those were with the ESC full off, the PCM is pulling power, there is no other explanation. Just as Nine Ball indicated, there is a fine line between bogging and burning the clutch if you try to slip it.

Nine Ball and Tom - my track time is done (Ohio tracks are closed), if you race again PLEASE hook by a scan tool and log apparent throttle postions versus true throttle position, this will let us know what is happening. When I started using HP Tuners on my Solstice GXP I found the GM ECU would frequently show a diff between true and apparent throttle positions.

Great info from all, Federal Law mandates that TCS is required on all vehicles 2013 forward, so when Chrysler says all you have to do is press a button and the TCS is turned off,?, while federal law still mandates it, makes one think its still on monitoring / working but in a highly desensitized mode.. Bottom line it's still a 1st generation TCS for Viper and obviously it's not perfect.. They know this and open discussion publicly is probably frowned upon internally by the higher ups. Hopefully SRT may be learning a lot on the GTS-R road race program and will share the info on the G5 TCS ?? One thing for sure, the stock G5 clutch can't handle 5000 rpm pedal drops!! We fixed the problem for Chrysler in the ACR-X Vipers and our new BBG competition clutch kits are the solution to the current G5 problem!!

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE

Toddy
=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=:usa:
 
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ferraritoviper

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The most ignorant comment I've seen yet. There are quite a few people here without gen Vs who can buy you with their petty cash.

If my original "negative" bags comment fits, wear it. If it doesn't, your cool. As for your petty cash comment, they'll have to pool a lot of it :)
 

Nambo

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I assume that Ralph is referring to his Viper but he just tweeted a time slip of 11.2x at 130 mph with a 1.9x 60'.
 

KB Viper

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i'm not sure if this helps any but after i did this burnout my check engine light came on and the dealer told me that because of the VVT cam the cam sensor kicks in a code when back tires spin that much in 1st. i really don't know what that means but hope it helps. i'll PM you a contact for a SRT engineer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWbekzMHs3o
 

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE

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Tell me more about your clutch, including the cost. This sounds like a good winter project.

Just to add credence to Nine Ball's experience. I was at the track with the G5 on a day where the DA was 3500. Mile per hour does not lie, it is a true indicator of HP. I have a shift light on the G5 and usually every run is consistent. In 2012 with my G2 I had over ten runs in a row within .05 seconds and within 1/2 mph. THe only time the mph changed was on a different track or where the DA changed. My G2 was consistent 127-129.X depending on the concitions.

On the day with a DA of 3500 the first run was 120 mph. I only had three more runs, however, the last two were 127.2. That is a huge diff in HP. Those were with the ESC full off, the PCM is pulling power, there is no other explanation. Just as Nine Ball indicated, there is a fine line between bogging and burning the clutch if you try to slip it.

Nine Ball and Tom - my track time is done (Ohio tracks are closed), if you race again PLEASE hook by a scan tool and log apparent throttle postions versus true throttle position, this will let us know what is happening. When I started using HP Tuners on my Solstice GXP I found the GM ECU would frequently show a diff between true and apparent throttle positions.

Jack B,

We first introduced our new G5 Competition Clutch kit to Chrysler (Winkles and crew) back in Daytona in 2011' and soon after received a phone call asking for Proto-types to install in the G5 undercover Test Vipers.. Our new "Deep Dish" flywheels are state of the art custom engineered billet 6061 units that are absolutely bullet proof and are really what the G5 Viper deserved to have factory installed..!!

We're utilizing our ACR-X metallic dual disc clutch packs to ensure durabilty and to maintain an outstanding 1300 ft lb torque capacity with OE pedal force modulation, yes OE pedal feel.. To achieve stock like pedal feel we use custom pivot points and spring designs in our high capacity pressure plates and replaced our stand driven floater plates with our engineered multi layered strapped driven floater plates, which actually step down into the "Deep Dish" flywheel by design.. This not only increases the service life of our G5 comp clutch kits but also greatly reduces clutch noise / rattle to just over stock!!

You'll get smooth engagement for metallic friction material, stock like pedal feel with slightly shorter travel for faster shifts, light weight, high torque capacity and a perfect set-up for high rpm pedal slips off the line.. A must for the race track and drag strip and will really improve the G5's driveline feel..

I firmly believe once installed you'd say great for daily driving as well. BBG's company policy is high torque capacity clutch kits with easy pedal feel.. Perfect for endurance racing, easy on driver. Just ask any of our clutch users from the SRT Vier Cup, road racers, to the forced induction Viper's we've clutched up and I'm sure they'd back up my statement..:2tu:

All Good Stuff, Please feel free and call me Jack B to discuss your winter project and pricing @ (916) 505-9026

Thanks for considering running a BBG product!

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE
Toddy

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=:usa:






 
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Nine Ball

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Yes, the blue C7 was stock, went 11.8. Automatic trans car. The red C7 had a custom tune, went 11.47 on stock tires.

My last two passes were only 120 mph and 122 mph. That is a severe reduction in power, and based on my experience with racing that indicates roughly 400-420 rwhp, or around 500 hp at the crank. That is about 140 hp lower than normal, you could definitely feel the difference. The car still sounded like it was running right, just felt slower than normal.

Another friend suggested I might try doing a burnout without using the brake, just peeling out past the line. I will try that next Sunday at our rental. I'll also try disconnecting the brake pedal switch. We need to figure this out.
 

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE

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Pricing for the non PM folk?

No PM pricing from BBG, but here's probably close to what I'll be machining our kits at. I may be able to work on package pricing when using our BBG custom HRB's, Pedal Stops and modified Mopar Master Cylinders..

BBG Viper G5 Competition Clutch kits:
*Dual Disc
*Custom Machined Billet 6061 "Deep Dish" Flywheel w/Steel Insert
*ACR-X Dual Disc Clutch Pack
*Engineered Multi Layered Strapped Floater Plate
*High Capacity Pressure Plate w/BBG Spec'd Pivot Point and Spring
*ARP Hardware BBG Spec'd
*High Torque Capacity Rated (1300 Ft Lbs)
*Pricing $1995.00 plus shipping


Thanks for askin ACRucrazy!


BAD BOYZZ GARAGE
Toddy
=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=:usa:
 

ViperSmith

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No PM pricing from BBG, but here's probably close to what I'll be machining our kits at. I may be able to work on package pricing when using our BBG custom HRB's, Pedal Stops and modified Mopar Master Cylinders..

BBG Viper G5 Competition Clutch kits:
*Dual Disc
*Custom Machined Billet 6061 "Deep Dish" Flywheel w/Steel Insert
*ACR-X Dual Disc Clutch Pack
*Engineered Multi Layered Strapped Floater Plate
*High Capacity Pressure Plate w/BBG Spec'd Pivot Point and Spring
*ARP Hardware BBG Spec'd
*High Torque Capacity Rated (1300 Ft Lbs)
*Pricing $1995.00 plus shipping


Thanks for askin ACRucrazy!


BAD BOYZZ GARAGE
Toddy
=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=:usa:
Great.

Do you think you could reach out to your contacts at SRT and ask them about this issue as well? They need to get on this and help us all resolve it...

Best
Harold
 
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