Help! Viper wrecked at dealer. Fiberglass cracked, don't know what to do!

[thehixx]

Help! Viper wrecked at dealer. Fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

I need some urgent advice on my Viper.

One month ago, I took my 99GTS to the local dealer to have the A/C fixed. While the car was there, a customer backed into the right rear quarter panel and cracked it in this location. (This is not my car.)

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The crack is full thickness in the area nearest to the passenger door. (The passenger door was unfortunately dinged just a bit on the door margin and will need to be fixed/painted, too.) The panel is still on the car, so I have not seen the full extent of the cracking/damage.

When the dealer first called to tell me about the damage, he assured me that he would get me a new quarter panel, paint it, and restore my car to as near new as possible. Then, the insurance adjuster came. Of course, a Viper quarter panel is expensive ($2500), so they refused a new panel and said that all they would pay for was to patch the damaged panel and paint it.

My response to the dealer was that a "patched up" Viper was not what I brought in, and I would accept nothing less than a new panel. The body shop guy then told me that once the panel was removed, more damage was evident (cracked more than first thought) and he would have the adjuster return to hopefully approve a new panel.

Well, no such luck.

Currently, my car has been at the dealership for one month. The insurance company for the guy who hit it won't pay for a new panel. I asked my insurance company to look at it, and they won't pay either, as the dealer has told them that it can be fixed by patching it up. However, there is a conflict of interest- the dealer is a preferred provider body shop for my insurance company and would not want to jeopardize that by recommending a new panel.

So my questions for you:

1. Can a full thickness fiberglass crack really be adequately repaired? Looking at the location of the crack, the quarter panel is essentially split into two. I just can't fathom that it can be, but the dealer insists that it will actually be "stronger than before". I hear the panels creaking under full-throttle, and I just don't see how patchwork will not crack under the immense forces.

2. Should I insist on a new quarter panel? I may have to go to court to do this.

3. Right now, the dealer's plan is to patch the panel and blend the paint back into the quarter panel and up into the damaged door for better matching. If I do insist on a new panel, will I have to have the paint blended on all of the other panels that connect to the quarter panel? That may be one reason NOT to get a new panel--- to avoid painting even more of my car!

4. How much re-sale value do you think I will lose with a "patched panel"? with a "new panel"? In other words, would my re-sale value be higher with a new panel?

Thanks in advance. Needless to say, this is an incredibly irritating and frustrating situation!!!

 

[plumcrazy]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

#2.

but id pay for the new one to be installed and fight it out in court.

 

[Yves]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

Hire a lawyer or go for third party arbitrage.
It is an unfair situation for you to have to deal with 2 parties who are business partners. Somebody neutral needs to step in.
I would sue them.
Also make sure you recover some money for 1] not being able to enjoy your toy all this time and 2] all other payments which went down the drain in this period (insurance,...).

 

[Bill B]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

What state are you in?

 

[thehixx]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

I am in Arizona.

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked at dealer. Fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

Without reading ANY response before mine....here are my ONLY two questions:

1) Name of the dealer?
2) Insurance Company?

You might have already replied.....but I think in these kinds of circumstances it is important to share details about how dealerships handle issues.

 

[Mike Brunton]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

I'm not a body shop guy, but I had a Vette once that had the "fiberglass" cracked. I believe the Vette was RTM just like the Viper.

Anyway, the insurance wanted to pay for a spot repair and fade in the paint. First of all, I don't think that is going to work. A couple of the guys I went to told me that it takes a loooong time for the repair stuff to 'cure' and it will shrink, and you will see noticeable distortion in the paint. Maybe not today but probably in 3-6 months.

The second thing is I believe they are supposed to "make you whole". A pretty new Viper is a new enough and high-end-enough car that I don't think a spot repair with a blended paint job is really appropriate. Its not your fault at all - you shouldn't have to deal with a repaired car.

I wouldn't trust that whole "stronger than original" thing. It doesn't need to be stronger - its not like you are towing and that is the point it joins to. It just needs to look 100% mint, and I don't believe any blend job will look as good as a new panel, painted off the car.

I'd take it to a REALLY GOOD body shop you know and trust and get their opinion maybe.

 

[Blue Pilot]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

thehixx, my brother is a manager for a major auto insurance carrier in Ohio, and here is his advise:

If you do not like the answers the guilty party's insurance company and the dealership's body shop is giving you, then you have every right to take your car to another qualified body shop and get the repair technician to say that the quarter panel needs to be replaced. Then have the work done and pay for it out of pocket yourself. Your next move will be to sue the PERSON who damaged your car, not his or her insurance company. The judge will find in your favor and the guilty party's insurance company by law has to comply with the court order. This basically takes the decision out of the insurance company's hands. You also have to realize that your dealership is going to abide by the offenders insurance recommendations, especially since your dealership is a preferred body shop for them. That insurance company sends a great deal of business to them, so they will be much more inclined to please them over you.
If you decide to have the existing panel repaired, make sure you get a written lifetime warranty on the repair, which all reputable body shops will give. This way if it stress cracks or fades, you can make them fix it again.

I hope this helps, good luck.

 

[ViperJoe]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

Get an attorney!

 

[Gerald]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

Hire an attorney.. That's what insurace is for. ******* insurance companies..

Gerald

 

[malcoll]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

Tell them you will take the repair but you will have to receive at least $7,500 of Diminution of Value because of a repaired quarter panel.

On the paint.... as new as your Viper is... they should be able to match the paint.... I would require the entire quarter panel painted and clearcoated. Ther are enough "break" lines in the Viper body to "cut" the color and clear.

Seriously... the insurance carrier for the person who hit your vehicle potentially owes you Diminution of Value. That is the loss of value created by the fact that your vehicle has been repaired. Obviously a repaired quarter a panel and "blended" paint creates more opportunity for Diminished Value than a replaced quarter panel and full panel painting and clear coat.

What is the insurance company that hit you?

 

[thehixx]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

Thanks to everyone who has posted advise so far.

Here are more details:

1. The dealership is Bill Luke in Phoenix, AZ.
2. The guy who hit me is insured with Hartford.
3. My own insurance company is Allstate. Bill Luke is a preferred provider with Allstate.

Also, malcoll, what does "There are enough "break" lines in the Viper body to "cut" the color and clear" mean?

Finally, I am still not clear on this: If I do get a new quarter panel and have it painted off the car, will they need to paint the surrounding panels to blend the color, or would they just paint the quarter panel?

Thanks again to all. I am starting to see a way out of this. I can't believe my car has been there for a month!

 

[Gerald Levin]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

Wasn't there a previous thread that discussed how some states will not accept the Diminution of Value and will only require the insurance company to repair the damage. No money is paid for loss of value due to car being involved in accident. I believe many states were doing this. Typical insurance b.s.

 

[joe117]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

I had my Viper at a Dodge dealer to have a bunch of mechanical work done.
They backed one of their own trucks into the top front of the hood.
The paint on the car was not real new looking, so the "fix and paint the hood" that they wanted to do, wouldn't look that great.

I went round and round with them and finally settled for a compleat paint job. I had to pay $1k.
I think I got a good deal.

I don't think anyone could tell that the hood has been fixed.

 

[Miles B]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

thehixx, my brother is a manager for a major auto insurance carrier in Ohio, and here is his advise:

If you do not like the answers the guilty party's insurance company and the dealership's body shop is giving you, then you have every right to take your car to another qualified body shop and get the repair technician to say that the quarter panel needs to be replaced. Then have the work done and pay for it out of pocket yourself. Your next move will be to sue the PERSON who damaged your car, not his or her insurance company. The judge will find in your favor and the guilty party's insurance company by law has to comply with the court order. This basically takes the decision out of the insurance company's hands. You also have to realize that your dealership is going to abide by the offenders insurance recommendations, especially since your dealership is a preferred body shop for them. That insurance company sends a great deal of business to them, so they will be much more inclined to please them over you.
If you decide to have the existing panel repaired, make sure you get a written lifetime warranty on the repair, which all reputable body shops will give. This way if it stress cracks or fades, you can make them fix it again.

I hope this helps, good luck.

I would say this is VERY good advice. I don't have any experience in the USA, but over here, this is what a lawyer advised me as well. Sounds pretty logical when you think about it. A guy sideswiped my parked car. His insurance co wanted to use all kinds of dodgy parts and crap on my car, even against what their approved repairers quoted! My lawyer told me if I really wanted everything done how I wanted it done, pay for it out of my own pocket, then sue THE DRIVER. He said the magistrate would look at it and go "well, I rule in favour of the plaintiff... how much did the repairs cost? OK, defendant, pay it.. next case". It's how it works on Judge Judy Then the driver just goes to his insurance co with the court order and they have to pay the bill by their contract.

In the end, I just pushed the insurance co little by little to a settlement I was happy enough with because it is just my low dollar daily driver and I didn't want to go to all the trouble. With a Viper, I would. Go talk to your lawyer. Get a lawyer who specializes in this stuff if yours doesn't. No way in hell I would want a patched panel on a Viper when I am buying, let alone a panel that was broken into two pieces. I would not buy it. Replaced panel? Yes, I'd still buy it, if you had photo evidence to show it was replaced for a very minor hit. I would never ever let that "repair" happen to my own Viper (when I get one!). I would get 5 different quotes all saying "replace", then I would get it done, and then sue the driver. Keep all of the paperwork. Courts love proof.

 

[GCHDEALER]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

I am a dealer and things like this happen. Speak with the owner/General Manager. They should pay for this problem to go away...I would if you were my customer.
Chad

 

[thehixx]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

I did go to the general manager...was calm and courteous. After about 30 seconds he interrupted my story and said, "If this is leading up to us paying anything, that ain't gonna happen!"

 

[Newport Viper]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

I just went to small claims court and won! Same type of thing. It was a pain and time consuming but worth it!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[malcoll]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

Typically paint is "blended" in a repair to "fool" the human eye.

When you look at a body panel and the color is spot painted...your eye can tell the change of color when that transition is abrupt and in the middle of a panel.

When the paint is blended ... the new paint is "feathered" or "misted" from the spot painted area into the existing paint.

When a panel is painted..... the surrounding panels are blended to "fool" the human eye.

On the Viper there are fairly wide gaps around the quarter panel. If the body shop paints the entire panel, they should be able to match the color close enough that the gaps around the quarter panel serve to interrupt the color enough that the human eye cannot perceive any color difference.

I would say that the panel can be repaired... and the the full quarter panel painted and clearcoated... should result in a reasonable repair... but I would demand Diminution of Value.

 

[ViperJoe]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

I did go to the general manager...was calm and courteous. After about 30 seconds he interrupted my story and said, "If this is leading up to us paying anything, that ain't gonna happen!"

Just another reason to get an attorney, if only for advice on what you can, and what you should do.

 

[GCHDEALER]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

I did go to the general manager...was calm and courteous. After about 30 seconds he interrupted my story and said, "If this is leading up to us paying anything, that ain't gonna happen!"

What a ******* sue his ass! Following that comment I would also put it in the newspaper. This is the worst thing that you can do to a dealer bad publicity is not worth the cost of the repair.
C

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

This is why I hate ever having to take my car in to have work done on it. Take legal action but don't let it give you an ulser. Enjoy your car and know that nobody else will ever notice it. Get as much as you can out of the dealer and buy some upgrades.







2000 GTS Steel Grey, Six piston Bier claws up front, front brakes in back
Quaife Differential, GKH half shafts, alloy fly wheel, short throw shifter, polished intakes, K&N air filters, Optima battery,
Leaving my older brother in his corvette in the dust........priceless

 

[Pictureman]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

I don't know much about the paint stuff but I did something interesting the other day. I bought a new spotlight and just happen to shine it on the front of my viper. The stripes on the very front of the car are black and the ones on the hood are a dark brown color. By looking at the car you can't see any difference but with the spotlight there is a big difference in the paint. I've had it for a few months and it doesn't bother me if the nose has been repainted, I just thought it was interesting how the color difference showed up with the bright lite.

 

[dansauto]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

they will have to blend the base and re-clear the entire panel. Definitley fight and get a new qtr panel, These cars are SMC not fiberglass and must be repaired with the proper material. The materail will NOT shrink if they do it right. Not to get into 4 pages of details, but it can be repaired, although they really owe you a new panel! Looks like court is your only answer, maybe after they get the summions with your trumped up expenses, they will just settle.

 

[slaughterj]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

I'd suggest speaking with an attorney. I happen to know an attorney If you'd like to talk, PM me.

Slaughter, Esq.

 

[superdavz]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked, fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

GET A LAWYER!
I had a problem with a dealership when we took my wife’s bug in for service and someone broke into the car and stole the stereo. The dealership said they were not responsible and my insurance would have to pay for it. This did not make me happy! I shouldn’t be responsible for any of it let alone the deductible. So I called my lawyer and it was fairly quick, since they took possession of the car they are totally responsible for the car. It took a while but we got it all done and we will never go back to them!!

 

[Russ M]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked at dealer. Fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

You will be better of having the panel repaired. A properly done repair job on fiberglass will be as good as new. If you attempt to install a new panel it is going to be very difficult, fit is far from ideal on any of the replacement parts.

Make sure the fix also includes color matching of the entire right side of the body. If they just repair and paint that panel it is going to stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[thehixx]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked at dealer. Fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

Does anyone know definitively if the State of Arizona allows claims for dimunition of value?

 

[96 GTS]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked at dealer. Fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

You said that your car has been at this **** bag dealer for one month. The first thing I would do is to get my car out of their control. Every day it sits at the dealer, is just one more day that something else might happen to it. Get it in your possession NOW.

The second thing I would do is get a good attorney, and sue the ba$tards for a ton of money including diminution of value as previously mentioned.

Don't dick around with these creeps. Good Luck!

 

[thehixx]

Re: Help! Viper wrecked at dealer. Fiberglass cracked, don\'t know what to do!

OK.

I have retrieved my Viper from the dealer this morning! My next task will be to go to two or three independent body shops for estimates/advice, then back to the insurance company of the guy who hit me for one last chance to fix my car right. If the answer is still no, I'll get an attorney and sue.