Monday we find out who is faster at Laguna Seca, ZR1 or Gen V

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ray W

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 28, 2000
Posts
906
Reaction score
0
Location
Fort Lauderdale,FL USA
I don't know many if any sane people who would drive a Viper at it's limits without alot of seat time. The Vette without using the nannies is not scary. The old Viper is very scary and I suspect so is the new one. Learning to trust a car that gives such small feedback before losing grip can not be mastered in one afternoon. Maybe he should have used the t/c in the Viper to help build more confidence quicker. That may have not played out for M/T's agenda however.
 

redtanrt10

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Posts
1,711
Reaction score
49
Location
Dana Point CA
Re: Corvette Needs the Viper to be at the Top of its Game...

Lot's of passion here, the Gen V is a great car, but to be the king of the strip or road racing now and in the near future takes more than a Gen IV with 40 extra hp, 100 lbs less weight and some suspension tweaks. 700 hp and a semi automatic trans is the answer. Sorry for those that didn't figure that out when the Gen V specs were released and are now disapointed with magazine articles.

I'm happy there is a new Viper and development continues, more of these motors means more aftermarket and maybe Chrysler releases the codes. I'd love to have a Gen V with the RS body kit, add headers, ECU, Motons and have a faster viper than my ACR.

On a lighter note, here's a real world amateur Viper vs. ZR-1, take the 30 seconds to watch and enjoy! Mike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTTkrlNokgA
 

Newport Viper

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 17, 2000
Posts
4,657
Reaction score
0
Location
Newport Coast, CA
I think there is a bigger problem here for both cars...

ZR-1 production numbers...

2009-1415
2010-1517
2011-906
2012-404

Hmmm not a good trend...

Really....I just don't see why the car (Viper) came back now in dead of winter 2013...should have waited. (2015?)

I hope that it sells until I can get my hands on the Vert in 2014 (?)

If sales **** we will never see a Vert... could be game over..
 

plumcrazy

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 9, 2003
Posts
16,243
Reaction score
7
Location
ALL OVER
I get what Ray is saying and how he feels. A lot of people here think this is just a performance issue, we got beat by a Vette, etc. It is not. It is a lack of communication issue.

We asked for performance figures......silence.

We have asked about both Gen 4 and Gen 5 computer upgrades and modifications.....silence.

Questions about Gen 3 and Gen 4 window regulators being defective....silence..

DANG, the VCA does run dodge.....(sorry i had to)
 

strykergts

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Posts
82
Reaction score
0
One must remember that what killed the zr1 was the z06. After the initial hooplah upon the zr1's intro, true enthusiasts learned that the z06 was the better car. The viper just has 2 different trim levels, not 2 different drive trains. I for one am still excited to have a gen v on order. I bought the car for what I wanted, not what a bunch of magazine writers tell me to like. Many of those griping about the reviews need to remember that in the end, it's your car, not the guy next to you on the street. If I had wanted an all out power king, I would have never ordered a viper. There are many more choices that come in at half the price. I chose the viper because of its styling, American muscle, and heritage. Same reasons why I bought my Z06 in 08. I simply like the idea of driving down the road in something that doesn't resemble everything else driving on the road. Same reasons why I drive an H1. In a sea of conformity, it's hard to be an individual these days.
 

bluestreak

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Posts
869
Reaction score
0
Re: Corvette Needs the Viper to be at the Top of its Game...

Perhaps, but, 2 seconds on Leguna is not a small amount of time. It's not like a couple of tenths here or there. It's pretty decisive, actually. And had he enabled the PTM, the difference would have been greater.



I'll readily admit my ignorance here, but I thought it was stated here on the forum several times that it had the track pack? Or is that not the case?

jas

The track pack is irrelevant as its still using poor tires. Frankly they arent much better than the ps2 the zr1 was on when it ran 1:35.
 

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

VCA Member
Supporting Vendor
Joined
Jul 25, 2000
Posts
5,212
Reaction score
6
Location
Blair,Nebraska,USA
Thanks Plumcrazy, as that comment about communication is absolutely so far from the truth to be ludicrous. We are less than 4000 souls in a relatively small car club, but SRT has invited us to a " Reveal " of the new car, they brought numerous folks to Salt Lake City for VOI to get data on what we wanted on the new car, from color to interiors, to seats, etc. They constantly elicit information from members, go to tons of VCA events to show support and ask more questions, so please name another Automotive group in the US, nee, the World that is so accessible to it's owners? We have succeeded into thinking like so much of this Nation we are entitled. We ask for performance figures it is noted, but we fail to use common sense and realize if we have all this info when we want it , then we disavow a Corporation to get out publicity as they want on their timeline. We ask questions on computer upgrades and modifications , without realizing there are legal issues to encounter ( not to mention that the Gen V is not even out). Folks know about the window regulators and if possible something will be done, but the point is that the more SRT gives to us, the more many feel they are entitled to even more. Time for a little common sense and respect in return for what they have given us as consumers. With affiliations with 9 different manufacturers , no one at our other stores can even comprehend the access I have as just a Viper owner -- the complaint is Franchises are not given even a 1/10th as much information, input, and yes , comraderie as SRT bestows upon us. I also know that the communication from SRT is of the highest level of any manufacturer I have seen in 22 years in the business. I have seen glimmers of correspondence and dialogue from other manufacturers that portend a willingness and eagerness to work with owners and Dealerships, but nothing of the long term committment since the mid 90s that Dodge and now SRT have shown. It is time now to remember how grateful we should be to have a company so willing to not only work with us , but to play also. Time to appreciate and be thankful instead of all this carping --- an attitude of gratitude will continue our superb relationship. This has been as close to family as it gets with a corporation and members of a small, but passionate club, but we need to also realize that though we have been given the keys to the house, there may come a time they decide to kick us out. Sorry for this long outburst, but sometimes I feel many haven't a clue how unbelievably blessed we are to have such a close knit arrangement with Chrysler Corporation.
 

jvp

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Posts
21
Reaction score
0
Location
Northern VA
One must remember that what killed the zr1 was the z06. After the initial hooplah upon the zr1's intro, true enthusiasts learned that the z06 was the better car.

Unless your goal is a naturally aspirated engine, the Z06 is in no way, shape, or form the "better car" than the ZR1. Other than very tight tracks, the ZR1 trounces on the Z06 in every case. But it should, since it costs so much more than its little brother.

jas
 

jvp

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Posts
21
Reaction score
0
Location
Northern VA
Re: Corvette Needs the Viper to be at the Top of its Game...

The track pack is irrelevant as its still using poor tires. Frankly they arent much better than the ps2 the zr1 was on when it ran 1:35.

Perhaps not, but they overtook the brakes, and they helped the Viper grip enough to turn the same Gs as the ZR1. To be honest, I'll bet they are quite a bit better than the PS2s from an overall grip perspective.

The tires weren't the problem here. That's made very evident by the information in the article.

jas
 

Mopar Boy

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Posts
10,274
Reaction score
0
Location
Ontario and Ohio
Yes they do. Unfortunately it's now Fiat/SRT.

I would disagree. Without Fiat there wouyld be no Viper, no SRT, and Chrysler would be the same direction of names like Plymouth and Desoto. Also the term rat fur gray would be in wide use if they happened to still be holding on.

Sorry for this long outburst, but sometimes I feel many haven't a clue how unbelievably blessed we are to have such a close knit arrangement with Chrysler Corporation.

Well spoken Mr Bill. :2tu: Sometimes it is taken for granted. I think sometimes people assume this is how all car manufacturers are when the truth is, it's so rare! We are very lucky we have what we do!
 

bluestreak

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Posts
869
Reaction score
0
Re: Corvette Needs the Viper to be at the Top of its Game...

Perhaps not, but they overtook the brakes, and they helped the Viper grip enough to turn the same Gs as the ZR1. To be honest, I'll bet they are quite a bit better than the PS2s from an overall grip perspective.

The tires weren't the problem here. That's made very evident by the information in the article.

jas

You clearly dont realize that every part of the turn is a function of the tires. Braking, turn-in, mid corner stability, power down on exit. All included. Even top speed can be affected.. Max g's do not alleviate the fact that corsas are not on the same level as mpsc. There is plentiful evidence to support that. Corsas are significantly slower than mpsc. Fact.
 

bluestreak

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Posts
869
Reaction score
0
Unless your goal is a naturally aspirated engine, the Z06 is in no way, shape, or form the "better car" than the ZR1. Other than very tight tracks, the ZR1 trounces on the Z06 in every case. But it should, since it costs so much more than its little brother.

jas

For road racing n/a is far greater than supercharger for a number of reasons. If the Z07 had a better motor it would in fact be a better car. As it stands its still a better platform (meaning naturally aspirated). And in spite of a huge hp deficit the z07 is right on the heels of the zr1 proving that point.
 

01sapphirebob

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Posts
4,962
Reaction score
0
Location
"OIHO"
Thanks Plumcrazy, as that comment about communication is absolutely so far from the truth to be ludicrous. We are less than 4000 souls in a relatively small car club, but SRT has invited us to a " Reveal " of the new car, they brought numerous folks to Salt Lake City for VOI to get data on what we wanted on the new car, from color to interiors, to seats, etc. They constantly elicit information from members, go to tons of VCA events to show support and ask more questions, so please name another Automotive group in the US, nee, the World that is so accessible to it's owners? We have succeeded into thinking like so much of this Nation we are entitled. We ask for performance figures it is noted, but we fail to use common sense and realize if we have all this info when we want it , then we disavow a Corporation to get out publicity as they want on their timeline. We ask questions on computer upgrades and modifications , without realizing there are legal issues to encounter ( not to mention that the Gen V is not even out). Folks know about the window regulators and if possible something will be done, but the point is that the more SRT gives to us, the more many feel they are entitled to even more. Time for a little common sense and respect in return for what they have given us as consumers. With affiliations with 9 different manufacturers , no one at our other stores can even comprehend the access I have as just a Viper owner -- the complaint is Franchises are not given even a 1/10th as much information, input, and yes , comraderie as SRT bestows upon us. I also know that the communication from SRT is of the highest level of any manufacturer I have seen in 22 years in the business. I have seen glimmers of correspondence and dialogue from other manufacturers that portend a willingness and eagerness to work with owners and Dealerships, but nothing of the long term committment since the mid 90s that Dodge and now SRT have shown. It is time now to remember how grateful we should be to have a company so willing to not only work with us , but to play also. Time to appreciate and be thankful instead of all this carping --- an attitude of gratitude will continue our superb relationship. This has been as close to family as it gets with a corporation and members of a small, but passionate club, but we need to also realize that though we have been given the keys to the house, there may come a time they decide to kick us out. Sorry for this long outburst, but sometimes I feel many haven't a clue how unbelievably blessed we are to have such a close knit arrangement with Chrysler Corporation.

Another voice of reason folks...Mr. Bill Pemberton!! :) :2tu:
 

jvp

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Posts
21
Reaction score
0
Location
Northern VA
Re: Corvette Needs the Viper to be at the Top of its Game...

You clearly dont realize that every part of the turn is a function of the tires.

Clearly I don't, and have never turned any laps on a road course in anger, in any car at all.

Ya got me.

Braking, turn-in, mid corner stability, power down on exit. All included. Even top speed can be affected.. Max g's do not alleviate the fact that corsas are not on the same level as mpsc. There is plentiful evidence to support that. Corsas are significantly slower than mpsc. Fact.

You stated it so it must be fact, huh? I'll happily consume any evidence you care to provide. If ya got it, whip it out.

jas
 

jvp

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Posts
21
Reaction score
0
Location
Northern VA
For road racing n/a is far greater than supercharger for a number of reasons.

Like?

If the Z07 had a better motor it would in fact be a better car.

Possibly, but as it turns out: it doesn't. So it isn't.

And in spite of a huge hp deficit the z07 is right on the heels of the zr1 proving that point.

And yet it still loses. Hm.

Let's get back to discussing Vipers vs Vettes because you're a bit out of your league here, junior. :)

jas
 

Ray W

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 28, 2000
Posts
906
Reaction score
0
Location
Fort Lauderdale,FL USA
I would disagree. Without Fiat there wouyld be no Viper, no SRT, and Chrysler would be the same direction of names like Plymouth and Desoto. Also the term rat fur gray would be in wide use if they happened to still be holding on.



Well spoken Mr Bill. :2tu: Sometimes it is taken for granted. I think sometimes people assume this is how all car manufacturers are when the truth is, it's so rare! We are very lucky we have what we do!

Damn you Mopar Boy and Bill with your diplomacy. :( I am still venting. It's hard to let go of a 100K these days. There's a reason you haven't gotten a call from me yet Bill. It's because I still love Vipers even the slow ones.:D
 

strykergts

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Posts
82
Reaction score
0
Unless your goal is a naturally aspirated engine, the Z06 is in no way, shape, or form the "better car" than the ZR1. Other than very tight tracks, the ZR1 trounces on the Z06 in every case. But it should, since it costs so much more than its little brother.

jas

sure it does, if you compare magazine numbers and professional drivers. Ask any one who has driven both, and you will be hard pressed to find anyone that prefers the zr1 to the Z06, especially the z06 carbon edition. You are falling victim to the very mentality that is causing the ******* and moaning about the gen v viper. I highly doubt anyone that drives a new gen v will be disappointed.
 

JohnnyLightning

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Posts
97
Reaction score
0
So if that was the track pack I bet the new standard C7 could run with the non track pack. I do have to agree most of you probably won't break 70mph in your car so what does it matter. I have met some crazy Viper owners and some that drive it like a Prius. For the prius driver guy who drives up in his Gen V and next to you is the new GT500 don't bother racing him or even looking at him. More than likely that guy has been beating on his car and will Youtube you. Plus after you see his tailights you will realise it wasn't even the 5.8. So go ahead and say this is a 11.4 quarter mile car and drive off thinking your hot stuff and will out corner him with your snack pack. It amazes me people who buy these cars can't drive so who cares about performance since you don't race it on the street and wouldn't dare take it to the track. So please by all means buy the Gen V and don't worry about some MT article or CD article since that is just bathroom talk anyways to you. The car isn't tuneable so why would the die hard crazy people want it. Keep in mind Detriot muscle cars wouldn't have exisit if they hadn't of street raced them in Detriot. Kudos to the people who want this car for driving reasons and that is the reason why they are so pissed. It's sub par stock and isn't tuneable. To the people who have one on order and don't care about performance please by all means whatever makes your happy but I am not buying a car that doesn't perform. I am keeping my GenII and looking at another vehicle but the Gen V isn't making the list.
 

bluestreak

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Posts
869
Reaction score
0
Like?



Possibly, but as it turns out: it dioesn't. So it isn't.



And yet it still loses. Hm.

Let's get back to discussing Vipers vs Vettes because you're a bit out of your league here, junior. :)

jas
Like heat soak, throttle response. Please name some pro teams winning with superchargers in road racing...... we will wait.

You said the Zr1 trounced the z06 and it clearly does not. Im only pointing out that you dont know what your are talking about. Youth does have its priveleges.

Clearly I don't, and have never turned any laps on a road course in anger, in any car at all.

Ya got me.



You stated it so it must be fact, huh? I'll happily consume any evidence you care to provide. If ya got it, whip it out.

jas

Look it up, its out there. Same day tests, real world tests, drivers feedback. Im not doing your work for you mr knowitall.

You are the one who said it wasnt the tires since they pulled similar g's which could easily mean the viper would pull more g's on mpsc. You also said that as to indicate its the only factor in which the tires are impactful. Again, only pointing out that you, my friend are the one out of your league......
 

Bobpantax

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Posts
6,957
Reaction score
3
Location
Miami
Are we the VCA or are we not the VCA? Does loyalty mean anything anymore? Do you think that SRT is not disappointed at what happened? They are. Do you think they are just crying about it? They are not. Be a little patient. An action plan is undoubtedly being formulated. Have a little faith. The same SRT gear heads and car nuts who we were with at VOI are on it. We will be vindicated. This will end well. Count on it.
 
Last edited:

mnc2886

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Posts
1,018
Reaction score
0
Location
Houston, TX
Are we the VCA or are we not the VCA? Does loyalty mean anything anymore? Do you think that SRT is not disappointed at what happened? They are. Do you think they are just crying about it? They are not. Be a little patient. An action plan is undoubtedly being formulated. Have a little faith. The same SRT gear heads and car nuts that we were with at VOI are on it. We will be vindicated. This will end well. Count on it.

Bob,

I think you're right, but this among other things I have mentioned kind of makes me feel this should have been a 2014 car. I have no doubt SRT will be back on top. Hopefully this will be a lesson for the upcoming ACR and nothing will be left on the table.

I have to admit, all this is pretty exciting to see manufacturers exchanging blows.
 

Jack B

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 5, 2000
Posts
3,484
Reaction score
0
Location
NE Ohio
Don't you get tired of repeating the same **** every time you start typing. That is just a question, nothing else. One more question, why do you worry so much about the choices other people make?

So if that was the track pack I bet the new standard C7 could run with the non track pack. I do have to agree most of you probably won't break 70mph in your car so what does it matter. I have met some crazy Viper owners and some that drive it like a Prius. For the prius driver guy who drives up in his Gen V and next to you is the new GT500 don't bother racing him or even looking at him. More than likely that guy has been beating on his car and will Youtube you. Plus after you see his tailights you will realise it wasn't even the 5.8. So go ahead and say this is a 11.4 quarter mile car and drive off thinking your hot stuff and will out corner him with your snack pack. It amazes me people who buy these cars can't drive so who cares about performance since you don't race it on the street and wouldn't dare take it to the track. So please by all means buy the Gen V and don't worry about some MT article or CD article since that is just bathroom talk anyways to you. The car isn't tuneable so why would the die hard crazy people want it. Keep in mind Detriot muscle cars wouldn't have exisit if they hadn't of street raced them in Detriot. Kudos to the people who want this car for driving reasons and that is the reason why they are so pissed. It's sub par stock and isn't tuneable. To the people who have one on order and don't care about performance please by all means whatever makes your happy but I am not buying a car that doesn't perform. I am keeping my GenII and looking at another vehicle but the Gen V isn't making the list.
 

FLL-B/W-GTS

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Posts
575
Reaction score
0
I, like so many others ,that have had many Vipers over the years love Vipers.I would have,and will for sure buy a new one ,but only when it is a clear improvement over the Gen.4 and other HP cars.Like others have said,a car that will be 140,000 to 150,000.00 dollars(SRT) with the Tax and the extra money some dealers will want better be worth it.With the recent results,the Gen 5 is not.I hope SRT does what they need to do to get it right.Bottom Line is, alot of their loyal Viper customers are not happy.Remember,they work for us and it is their job to make us happy with their Viper..
 

Torquemonster

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Posts
2,174
Reaction score
0
Location
Auckland, New Zealand
Race series often specify a control tire so that all cars are equal on tires. It would seem a fair comparison to compare cars and track times using the same control tire. I don't think that is reasonable to jump to conclusions that the Gen 5 is slower than a ZR1 yet. I'm with Bobpantax.

Sorry to see so much *** going on. The car is not even out yet so there is clearly so much more in it.

As for the ZR1 vs ZO6 argument, every professional driver that has commented on both agrees that the ZO6 is a better handling car. It has better balance, turns in better, and will hot lap quicker once the ZR1 starts to heat soak. The ZR1 posts faster lap times (before it heat soaks) due only to it's 130hp advantage. A ZO6 with bolt ons/heads/cam to match the ZR1 power would be a better and faster track car IMHO. No offence to ZR1 owners - great cars.

As race Gen 5 cars are going to be power restricted to ensure they don't completely dominate every class they enter, I would think SRT are tempted to release a high winding fully uncorked GTS-R that is road legal before the Gen 5 has retired. Given the current climate for maximum effort cars globally, a 700hp road/race car that is road legal would be easily within SRT "skunkworks" capability for a very limited run, while even a low boost twin turbo limited run GTS would send the ZR1 into hiding without affecting EPA mpg/emissions. SRT does know what a turbo looks like, they just have never needed them in a Viper before, and jury is out if they will later until a C7 ZR1 exists.

Bill - completely agree with your comments re SRT deserving gratitude not criticism - excellent post!
 

tbsviper

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Posts
502
Reaction score
0
Bill Pemberton. Sorry for this long outburst said:
no apology necessary Bill P. Agree with you. Many thanks to Ralph, Dick, Herb and other SRT team who find a way to join the Ohio Viper Club often and share insights/info with us. They are a competitive group and I am sure they have more tricks in their tool bag!
 
Last edited:

doctorbob

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 20, 2002
Posts
1,606
Reaction score
0
Location
Washington
I agree with Bobpantax and Billy P. This is the best club on the planet with the best relationship by far with a car maker. We are Viper Nation. No one has the passion for a car as we do. One negative review with an apparently pre-production car and the angst is unbelievable.
If you do not have the faith or passion for the car move on to something else. It is just that simple.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top